Pakistans's Council of Islamic Ideology Declares DNA Tests Not Acceptable as Primary Evidence in Rape Cases

[RonD1120 62]

Skyrad

Sadly much of what the west now believes to be Islam is nothing more than Saudi customs.

We certainly need more education and clarification in that regard. That is, speaking as a Western Christian.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Skyrad 0]

Sadly so do many Muslims.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rickjump1 0]

Skyrad

Was supposed to say cancer not dance.

From what I have read, that cancer was give new life with "Arab Spring", and that the Wabhi Salafist movement was actually apolitical years ago, but not anymore. Jihad is becoming more and more popular.

We destabilized Iran, took sides with Iraq in "their" war against Iran while selling everything we could to the Saudis, and later prostituted ourselves going after sadam. Now, a backfired Arab Spring is opening a bigger can of worms. More jihadists are leaving the reservation to go on the warpath with the west. Just my take on this.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Kennedy 0]

Skyrad

Actually its family, and they are dispersed across the world but I have many of my family living in Pakistan. I've been there several times and its tragic to see what could have been a vibrant nation slide to the point of virtual freefall that its currently in. It always had problems but there was also the belief that they could be overcome. These days I'm not so sure about that. The vast majority of Pakistani's do not want to be in a Islamist nation and many see Turkey as a role model of what they could be but unfortunately due to their geographical location I doubt that will ever happen.

I feel the same way about Lebanon (minus family connections).

Turkey is having its own problems.
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2013/06/02/Clashes-break-around-Taksim-Square-despite-police-withdrawal-.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/10093974/Turkey-protesters-celebrate-after-police-leave-Istanbul-square.html
http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2381911

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Sadly the country has fallen to the grip of tribalism and the cancer that is Wabhi Salafist doctrine as metastasised from Saudi Arabia. Sadly much of what the west now believes to be Islam is nothing more than Saudi customs.

Lets not forget a lot of Turkish influence shaped Muslim history. The Ottoman Empire was a Turkish caliphate, not Arab.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Skyrad 0]

rickjump1

***Was supposed to say cancer not dance.

From what I have read, that cancer was give new life with "Arab Spring", and that the Wabhi Salafist movement was actually apolitical years ago, but not anymore. Jihad is becoming more and more popular.

We destabilized Iran, took sides with Iraq in "their" war against Iran while selling everything we could to the Saudis, and later prostituted ourselves going after sadam. Now, a backfired Arab Spring is opening a bigger can of worms. More jihadists are leaving the reservation to go on the warpath with the west. Just my take on this.

No the Wabhi Salafist movement has always been political but it was previously on th erring, that is until it married up (literally) with the House of Saud. But you're right that recent history (along with around 30 billion dollars a year of Saudi money) has expanded the following to where it is today. As for the 'Arab Spring' thats the duel edge of democracy, sometimes people don't vote for who the rest of us want in power.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Yes but despite all odds Lebanon keeps managing to claw its way back (until it gets a kicking again).

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Lets not forget a lot of Turkish influence shaped Muslim history. The Ottoman Empire was a Turkish caliphate, not Arab.

Yes and therein lays the difference between what Islam is about and what Arab culture brings to the party. I don't know if ou've been to Turkey or not? Its really very European in feel and secular in many ways. Yes it is having problems at the moment and part of that is because of the Islamic ruling party attempting to make it harder to buy alcohol etc, that said I believe its as much about the economic situation. Last week there were riots in Sweden as well, Greece next door to Turkey riots at the drop of a hat and we've even had riots across the UK in the last couple of years and I wouldn't be surprised if we have them again. I doubt that the Turks will implode anytime soon as the President has massive support and has increased average income in the last ten years by around 300% in real terms.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Kennedy 0]

The problem is twofold. First, Islam is and always has been a primarily Arab created and controlled religion. Second, since the days of Ataturk, there have been forces pushing back against every good thing Turkish leaders have ever done. The good things for Turks is that generally when the fanatics gain too much power, level heads force them back into their hole. 1997 is a good example. I also think the riots and other things I linked to may be nothing more than another correction for the pendulum swinging too far to the Islamist side. I have full faith the Turkish people are capable of running a prosperous and peaceful country. Their biggest problem is the Kurdish "troubles".

Islam, while not inherently a problem (any more than any other religion), will not cease creating problems worldwide until bronze age fanatics with (I'm looking for a word other than "ungodly") views of human rights.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[jclalor 12]

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More jihadists are leaving the reservation to go on the warpath with the west. Just my take on this.

There may be more Jihadist on the warpath, but they are primarily at war with each other. I'ts a little egotistical to think that every radical Muslim in the world is out to get you, the fact of the matter is that for every western killed by a Muslim, 1000 Muslims were killed by another Muslim.

[Kennedy 0]

Some people like to forget that whole sunni and shiite war on each other. Then the whole "it's easier to be at war with people we can see", like in their own hemisphere. Then that the smallest number of them branch out into attacks on distant "interloper" countries.

Of course that ignores the fact that most folks just want to live their life and don't want to fight anyone, anywhere, any time, for any reason.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[jclalor 12]

Quote

Kennedy

Some people like to forget that whole sunni and shiite war on each other. Then the whole "it's easier to be at war with people we can see", like in their own hemisphere. Then that the smallest number of them branch out into attacks on distant "interloper" countries.

Of course that ignores the fact that most folks just want to live their life and don't want to fight anyone, anywhere, any time, for any reason.

That's why I think getting involved in Syria is a Major mistake. The west see's Syria as an "Arab Spring" uprising, and it may have well started as a popular uprising against a tyrant. It has now settled into a sectarian war, just like is happening now in Iraq. the difference in Syria is the Sunni Majority is looking to get payback on the minority Shia, and now some want us to back the Sunni side, the opposite of who we backed in Iraq.

The west will never understand the deep seated hatred and mistrust between the Shia and Sunni.

[jclalor 12]

I just watched this last week, it kind of gives some good insight into this subject.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/outlawed-in-pakistan/

[Skyrad 0]

Kennedy

The problem is twofold. First, Islam is and always has been a primarily Arab created and controlled religion. Second, since the days of Ataturk, there have been forces pushing back against every good thing Turkish leaders have ever done. The good things for Turks is that generally when the fanatics gain too much power, level heads force them back into their hole. 1997 is a good example. I also think the riots and other things I linked to may be nothing more than another correction for the pendulum swinging too far to the Islamist side. I have full faith the Turkish people are capable of running a prosperous and peaceful country. Their biggest problem is the Kurdish "troubles".

Islam, while not inherently a problem (any more than any other religion), will not cease creating problems worldwide until bronze age fanatics with (I'm looking for a word other than "ungodly") views of human rights.

Yep I'd pretty much agree with all of that. Islam is 500 years behind Christianity, 500 years ago that religion wasn't in a great place either. Whats required is an Islamic age of enlightenment and for the moderates to become not only the majority but the very vocal majority.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

jclalor

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More jihadists are leaving the reservation to go on the warpath with the west. Just my take on this.

There may be more Jihadist on the warpath, but their primarily at war with each other. I'ts a little egotistical to think that every radical Muslim in the world is out to get you, the fact of, the matter is that for every western killed by a Muslim, 1000 Muslims were killed by another Muslim.

True, plus there is a tendency among commentators in the west to confuse nationalist causes and fights with Jihadist ones because those fighting happen to be Muslims.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Kennedy 0]

That's not limited to Muslims. See Vietnam.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[rickjump1 0]

Skyrad

***

Quote

More jihadists are leaving the reservation to go on the warpath with the west. Just my take on this.

There may be more Jihadist on the warpath, but their primarily at war with each other. I'ts a little egotistical to think that every radical Muslim in the world is out to get you, the fact of, the matter is that for every western killed by a Muslim, 1000 Muslims were killed by another Muslim.

True, plus there is a tendency among commentators in the west to confuse nationalist causes and fights with Jihadist ones because those fighting happen to be Muslims.

It's not just commentators. By the time the US State Department begins to notice these revolutions being hijacked from the outside and the theft of tons of sophisticated weapons (they think they can buy them), it's too late.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Andy9o8 2]

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More jihadists are leaving the reservation to go on the warpath

So the Pakis are acting like wild Indians. Now there's some irony.