Global temps continue to fall

[billvon 3,107]

>Anthropogenic activities are part of the cause. However, in the short, mid and
>long terms this warming will me marginal, within normal limits, and humans will be
>able to adapt with little difficulty.

With a loose definition of "little" I agree.

Who pays for the costs incurred by those "little difficulties?"

[livendive 8]

lawrocket

I will reiterat my belief. The earth's climate is warming. Anthropogenic activities are part of the cause.

Agreed.

Quote

However, in the short, mid and long terms this warming will me marginal, within normal limits, and humans will be able to adapt with little difficulty.

On what basis do you conclude this? Clearly each of the models and scenarios presented by the IPCC and other climate research groups have inherent degrees of uncertainty and inaccuracy, but I'm curious why you think those the project the smallest amounts of change are the most accurate.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

ChrisD

...
What are you going to tell Indonesia and India...That they are mistaken when they are spending billions to relocate populations away from the coast? To protect their people, right now??

Why don't you come to England to see the efforts involved with the "Watershed" and Upper Thames relocation projects?
...
Are yo aware of how building codes have changed, WORLD WIDE, near coastal areas?
...

Shhh...let them believe that adaptatation is this scary, economy-wrecking source of death and destruction rather than an ongoing activity that most don't even really notice. I believe it should be accellerated, and made more commonly understood, but apparently people are going to believe what they want rather than what the data indicate.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>Switched?

Yep.

> I believe is it natural change

So that would make you a Type II.

I expect you to switch back to Type I next time Brenthutch posts another "it was cold Wednesday - I guess climate change alarmists are all pathologic liars!' post.

You can expect anything you want
Its a free country in that respect

You can label all you want

And you are free to be wrong

Everyone is good at something

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

kallend

************>What IS to blame . . . .as I asked, who

Wait a minute. Did you switch from Type I denier to Type II again?

I am just asking if you blame man for the change as you described or
as I believe
is it natural change?

Is the CO2 level passing 400ppm a natural change too?

It is reported that it has been higher

So, your point?

Dinosaurs once roamed the Earth too.

Is the 32 million tons of pollution your company emits every year "natural".

Depends
Is carbon pollution?

Oh
And I don't have a company
Do you have a school?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

livendive

You don't seem to understand that there's a difference between a belief supported by observation and science and one that's just a "gut instinct". While you may believe that this is nothing out of the ordinary, you can't point to the historical record for a bunch of similar instances that corroborate your perception of "ordinary."

Public policy should be predicated on observable reality, not gut instincts or faith. I'm similarly opposed to using religion as a basis for government, because while any particular set of beliefs may, in fact, be correct, the lack of confirmation by observation and science renders all of them equally inferior to that which can be shown logically.

Blues,
Dave

You are wrong again
As I do understand

However, I interpret the information differently than you do

I think it is a big stretch to take the position that man is causing or will cause the dangerous changes the AWG crowd says we will do

The public policy (as you call it) is a power grab intended to alter life styles to fit the ideology of those that support it. IE: is in not science but is politics

There is no proof backing what you say
And further more, there is a lack of confirmed predictions that are as of yet completely unexplained

There are studies that indicate higher and lower temps in the past as well as higher and lower CO2 levels
And those time to not correspond with mans activities and also do not indicate that CO2 levels affect temps. Conversely, these same studies indicate that CO2 levels trail global temp changes

I think it was about 1995 when I would have agreed with you
And it was not too long before that I would have supported gun bans

I think I was wrong back then

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[livendive 8]

As I suspected, you offer no supporting research, no data, and no analysis. All you offer is your thoughts and beliefs. Every time I provide supporting information, you ignore it out dismiss it without any credible argument. Believe as you want, we both know you will anyhow. In the meantime, I'll try to effect positive change.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Remster 30]

Quote

I'll try to effect positive change.

Hippy.

Remster

[rushmc 23]

livendive

As I suspected, you offer no supporting research, no data, and no analysis. All you offer is your thoughts and beliefs. Every time I provide supporting information, you ignore it out dismiss it without any credible argument. Believe as you want, we both know you will anyhow. In the meantime, I'll try to effect positive change.

Blues,
Dave

Wow
More condescension
I thought we were discussing opinions
I guess I am glad you think you got it all figured out
Makes you feel free to talk down your nose to those who disagree with and display your self proclaimed superior positions


I was going to post a thanks to you

Fuck that now

I should have known better

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]On what basis do you conclude this?

[rushmc 23]

livendive

As I suspected, you offer no supporting research, no data, and no analysis. All you offer is your thoughts and beliefs. Every time I provide supporting information, you ignore it out dismiss it without any credible argument. Believe as you want, we both know you will anyhow. In the meantime, I'll try to effect positive change.

Blues,
Dave

Upon further reflextion I should recognize that you have never ever ever, in all your time posting here, ever, rejected offhand any report, data or conclusion with which you may not have agreed with
Furthermore, to should, by default, agree to your superior position and opinion, bow my head, tuck my tail and walk away because of your greatness

Sorry I considered anything less

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[brenthutch 444]

livendive

***I will reiterat my belief. The earth's climate is warming. Anthropogenic activities are part of the cause.

Agreed.

Quote

However, in the short, mid and long terms this warming will me marginal, within normal limits, and humans will be able to adapt with little difficulty.

On what basis do you conclude this? Clearly each of the models and scenarios presented by the IPCC and other climate research groups have inherent degrees of uncertainty and inaccuracy, but I'm curious why you think those the project the smallest amounts of change are the most accurate.

Blues,
Dave

....................................
http://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/10.1142/S0217979213500732

Debunks the IPCC models

[livendive 8]

rushmc

***As I suspected, you offer no supporting research, no data, and no analysis. All you offer is your thoughts and beliefs. Every time I provide supporting information, you ignore it out dismiss it without any credible argument. Believe as you want, we both know you will anyhow. In the meantime, I'll try to effect positive change.

Blues,
Dave

Wow
More condescension
I thought we were discussing opinions
I guess I am glad you think you got it all figured out
Makes you feel free to talk down your nose to those who disagree with and display your self proclaimed superior positions


I was going to post a thanks to you

Fuck that now

I should have known better

Which part do you consider condescending? You are free to include data, analysis, or supporting studies and choose not to. Pointing that out is not condescending, it's merely a statement of fact.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

lawrocket

[Reply]On what basis do you conclude this?

One 150 years of pumping CO2 into the atmosphere - large amounts of it - having not resulted in devastation but instead in an environment so good for people that human population and societal development has skyrocketed.

Note: looking at the past in making predictions about the future is pretty time honored. I see the future. And it is much like the present. Only longer.

[brenthutch 444]

" I'm aware of no credible study that suggests a limit on this correlation"
----------------------------------------

Read up

http://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/10.1142/S0217979213500732

[livendive 8]

brenthutch

http://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/10.1142/S0217979213500732

Debunks the IPCC models

I can only get to the abstract, both through your link and through my school's library (which is weird...I accustomed to having full access group membership in any database that pulls up in our search engine). The abstract states that they find anthropogenic global warming is real but hinges on CFC's rather than CO2. This could be a valid argument, but I don't have the access necessary to form an opinion.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

brenthutch

" I'm aware of no credible study that suggests a limit on this correlation"
----------------------------------------

Read up

http://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/10.1142/S0217979213500732

lol - I can't believe I missed that, given it was published yesterday and I don't have access to the article.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[brenthutch 444]

The study predicts global temps will continue to fall as polar o3 levels recover. BTW it's tracking of past temps is more accurate than conventional co2 centered models.

[livendive 8]

brenthutch

The study predicts global temps will continue to fall as polar o3 levels recover. BTW it's tracking of past temps is more accurate than conventional co2 centered models.

I don't have a subscription to International Journal of Modern Physics B, so I can't say whether that's true or not. Both of your statements above are made in the abstract, but even assuming you do have such a subscription and have read the report, your misinterpretation of the data in the first article in this thread leaves me hesitant to accept your opinion of this study's findings. I bet Kallend has access to this journal. I look forward to his review of the full report. Until then, welcome to the fold of people who acknowledge the reality of anthropogenic climate change. Better late than never.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[brenthutch 444]

your misinterpretation of the data in the first article in this thread leaves me hesitant to accept your opinion of this study's findings.
--------------------------------

I made no interpertation at all. I mearly conveyed the latest global tempertures as reported by the climate scientests at NOAA.

[livendive 8]

I'll give credit where it's due. Although the article was last revised earlier this month, it's reasonable to assume that any changes were likely trivial. I did find an older copy of it (from last October) here.

In a fairly brief (1 hour) skim, I found a few nits such as the misunderstanding of CO2 lagging deglaciation by hundreds of years, but for the most part it looks like a pretty compelling argument that anthropogenic climate change is quite real but far more affected by atmospheric CFCs than CO2.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 3,107]

>One 150 years of pumping CO2 into the atmosphere - large amounts of it -
>having not resulted in devastation but instead in an environment so good for
>people that human population and societal development has skyrocketed.

Well, heck, by that measure, income taxes and big government have been so good for the US that our GDP has skyrocketed over the past 100 years. Can't see why you want to change what's made us successful.

[brenthutch 444]

Bill do yourself a favor and read the study, Kallend can help you with the math.

[ChrisD 0]

livendive

***...
What are you going to tell Indonesia and India...That they are mistaken when they are spending billions to relocate populations away from the coast? To protect their people, right now??

Why don't you come to England to see the efforts involved with the "Watershed" and Upper Thames relocation projects?
...
Are yo aware of how building codes have changed, WORLD WIDE, near coastal areas?
...

Shhh...let them believe that adaptatation is this scary, economy-wrecking source of death and destruction rather than an ongoing activity that most don't even really notice. I believe it should be accellerated, and made more commonly understood, but apparently people are going to believe what they want rather than what the data indicate.

Blues,
Dave

One of the most concerning things I read regarding these NATO Global Confrences, hosted in other than the USA, is:

The fact that the scientists and researchers have in some respects given up on the public because the opposition is soo well funded. The result has been the genisis of what is called "Trigger Points."

A trigger point is the backup plan and or contingencies as this thing gets worse over the next fifty years.

As time goes on and the public starts to become more aware of the issues as a result of the consequences, trigger point plans get initiated...this is not the same as being proactivve now!

And the outcome is rather draconian.

It is unfortunat that the plan includes this...
C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[lawrocket 3]

So you're saying that the alarmists - who were so convincingly ahead until fairly recently - have quit? Wow. And they've quit because "the opposition is so well funded?".

There's a blog I'd suggest to you: judithcurry.com. I think she is the fairest and most neutral one out there. Try to read a bit of history about her, too.

My wife is hotter than your wife.