Forcible Rape vs. Date Rape

[mistercwood 287]

Not what was stated. Basic analogy for what was - Oh you've been shot? We're not going to call you a shooting victim until the perpetrator is found, charged and convicted. Presumption of innocence is not the issue at hand.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[Andy9o8 2]

mistercwood

******lot of presumptions behind that graphic.

Well it seems to be based on the feminist rape fantasy of all-the-women-are-being-raped-all-the-time-by-all-the-men-but-they-just-don't-report-it.

I don't subscribe to that theory, but can you name another major crime where the victim is blamed more often than not?

Possibly tax evasion, I suppose. But that's a digression. Maybe domestic violence; and that's probably more on point.

[mistercwood 287]

That'd be close enough. Don't know if I'd apply quite the same victim-blaming label, but I'd certainly put forward it's in the same league for people turning a blind eye to...

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[jclalor 12]

popsjumper

So, presumption of innocence doesn't apply in some cases. I didn't know that.

I never said that the accused is not considered innocent until proven guilty. What I did say, was how pathetic it is to tell a victim of a horrendous rape that she is not a victim unless there is a conviction.

Would you tell the person who was shot that he is only the accuser until there is a conviction?

And the GOP can't figure out why they do so poorly with women voters.

[promise5 17]

Please its not about political parties.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[kallend 2,144]

promise5

Please its not about political parties.

I guess you weren't paying attention to the GOP bozo's prior to the 2012 elections.

How many Dems made similar ignorant comments about rape?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[promise5 17]

There are bozo's in every political party. I'm a republican and I speak for myself.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[billvon 3,100]

>So, presumption of innocence doesn't apply in some cases.

That's the problem. BOTH parties are presumed innocent. Some people portray rape victims as unreasonable accusers rather than rape victims.

[champu 1]

jclalor

***So, presumption of innocence doesn't apply in some cases. I didn't know that.

I never said that the accused is not considered innocent until proven guilty. What I did say, was how pathetic it is to tell a victim of a horrendous rape that she is not a victim unless there is a conviction.

Would you tell the person who was shot that he is only the accuser until there is a conviction?

And the GOP can't figure out why they do so poorly with women voters.

I think you're talking past one another. In a situation where a woman was obviously raped (bruising and other physical evidence) but the person who committed it is in question, there's no conflict in referring to the woman as a rape victim and presuming the defendant is innocent until proven guilty.

But in the case where sex did occur between two known people and the trial is to determine if what occurred was rape, then the woman cannot be a rape victim without the defendant being guilty.

[billvon 3,100]

>Please its not about political parties.

Neither party is OK with rape. But republicans have made some serious blunders over the past years in trying to "redefine" rape, to make it less severe, or to claim that women are generally lying about it.

One particularly nasty attempt was by Todd Akin, who claimed that women who became pregnant as a result of rape weren't really raped. "If it’s a legitimate rape," he said, "the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing [pregnancy] down.”

Another was the "forcible rape" provision of the GOP-sponsored H.R.3 bill, which specifically covered only "forcible rape" under its definition of rape. So if, for example, a woman was drugged and raped that wouldn't be covered since it wasn't "forcible."

Fortunately they are getting better about this stuff.

[promise5 17]

It needs to stop being a political point for either party! People mis-speak all the time. Is it offensive? Yes! Do I then say its because they are a part if a certain political party?
It s a very emotionally charged subject. I can only say, until you've been to hell and back please don't speak for me, and that goes for whatever party!

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[jakee 1,586]

Quote

People mis-speak all the time.

Saying something incredibly stupid is not the same as mis-speaking.

Mis-speaking is using the wrong words to try and convey what you meant to say at the time. Deciding after the fact that you no longer want to be associated with what you said and meant does not count.

Quote

Do I then say its because they are a part if a certain political party?

No, but when it happens over and over and over again on the same subject by representatives of the same party then an association does start to build.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[promise5 17]

Sorry, saying something incredibly stupid is mis speaking to me.
Also, its certain people within an organization/party, its not the whole organization/party.
But, it needs to STOP being a political point to attack one party or the other. When we focus on which party it is, it takes our eyes of the real issue and that's Rape or whichever issue is being discussed.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[billvon 3,100]

>People mis-speak all the time.

They also say what they think all the time.

Keep in mind that the "forcible rape" thing was NOT an accidental slip of the tongue. It was part of a bill authored by several Republicans. They gave up on it not because they realized they made a typo, but because they realized they could not win. If they thought they could they would have kept it in the bill.

[kallend 2,144]

promise5

Sorry, saying something incredibly stupid is mis speaking to me.
Also, its certain people within an organization/party, its not the whole organization/party.
But, it needs to STOP being a political point to attack one party or the other. When we focus on which party it is, it takes our eyes of the real issue and that's Rape or whichever issue is being discussed.

You're just making excuses now. The election results show pretty clearly that the majority of women believe the GOP does not have their interests at heart.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ryoder 1,590]

jakee

Quote

People mis-speak all the time.

Saying something incredibly stupid is not the same as mis-speaking.

Mis-speaking is using the wrong words to try and convey what you meant to say at the time. Deciding after the fact that you no longer want to be associated with what you said and meant does not count.

Quote

Do I then say its because they are a part if a certain political party?

No, but when it happens over and over and over again on the same subject by representatives of the same party then an association does start to build.

OK, just to be fair, here is a Democrat "mis-speaking".
The good part starts at 3:20: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-may-9-2013/blue-s-spews

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[promise5 17]

Excuses?? I'm not making excuses for anyone. The only one that speaks for me is me.
What I am saying is this needs to stop being a discussion on political parties and be a discussion on what the topic is about. Take the republican/democrat crap out if it. Period

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[ryoder 1,590]

promise5

Excuses?? I'm not making excuses for anyone. The only one that speaks for me is me.
What I am saying is this needs to stop being a discussion on political parties and be a discussion on what the topic is about. Take the republican/democrat crap out if it. Period

OK, since you're new here, I'll explain it for you:

There is no issue so complex that it cannot be framed in SC as republican/democrat or conservative/liberal. All issues and all people fall into one camp or the other. No exceptions, and no gray areas.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[quade 4]

ryoder

***Excuses?? I'm not making excuses for anyone. The only one that speaks for me is me.
What I am saying is this needs to stop being a discussion on political parties and be a discussion on what the topic is about. Take the republican/democrat crap out if it. Period

OK, since you're new here, I'll explain it for you:
There is no issue so complex that it cannot be framed in SC as republican/democrat or conservative/liberal. All issues and all people fall into one camp or the other. No exceptions, and no gray areas.

For example, watch what happen if I say the following:

"Potato Salad."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[promise5 17]

Depends on the potato salad.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[quade 4]

promise5

Depends on the potato salad.

I said, watch, not comment.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[promise5 17]

Sorry
Can I comment now?
Wait what about now?
Come on how much longer?
Ugh, fine


Holy crap someone comment on potato salad!!
I'm dying here!!

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[ryoder 1,590]

quade

For example, watch what happen if I say the following:

"Potato Salad."

Is there meat in the recipe?
If not, that makes it vegetarian, and we all know those vegetarian tree-hugging hippies are all liberal Democrats.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[quade 4]

Aw...damn...I was hoping you'd go after the obvious "spelling error."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ryoder 1,590]

quade

Aw...damn...I was hoping you'd go after the obvious "spelling error."

Damn! It's been so long I forgot about that, and he was even from my home state.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.