Public and Televised Shaming of People Who Patronize Prostitutes -- Really?

[masterblaster72 0]

With all of the other problems law enforcement has to deal with, and all the events that the news can possibly report on in a half hour -- is it really necessary to publish the names and show the pictures of people who patronize the world's oldest profession?

Internet prostitution sting brings 4 arrests in Philadelphia

Come on now...

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[quade 4]

Well, pillories are sooo 15th century.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

That nothing. Some places are considering putting anyone convicted of solicitation or utilization of "services" on the sex offender registry.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[BIGUN 1,486]

OK.. this cracked me up...

City Wide Vice Enforcement Unit placed ads on a personal services website advertising the services of uncover female police officers posing as prostitutes.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Kennedy 0]

Well, that's one way to convince folks they're not officers...

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[kallend 2,148]

The US would do well to spend less effort trying to control what people do with their reproductive organs, and a bit more effort on controlling violence.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Croc 0]

What he said.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[billvon 3,116]

>The US would do well to spend less effort trying to control what people do with their
>reproductive organs, and a bit more effort on controlling violence.

No one will be safe until we outlaw the scourge of oral sex.

=================
Virginia Gov. Candidate Cuccinelli Defending Law That Forbids Oral Sex

By Kate Sheppard
Wed Apr. 3, 2013 10:13 AM PDT

Last month, three judges on the US Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit deemed a Virginia anti-sodomy law unconstitutional. The provision, part of the state's "Crimes Against Nature" law, has been moot since the 2003 US Supreme Court decision overruled state laws barring consensual gay sex, but Virginia has kept the prohibition on the books.

Now Virginia attorney general and Republican gubernatorial candidate Ken Cuccinelli is asking the full 4th Circuit to reconsider the case. Cuccinelli wants the court to revive the prohibition on consensual anal and oral sex, for both gay and straight people.
==================

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

The US would do well to spend less effort trying to control what people do with their reproductive organs, and a bit more effort on controlling violence.

Preach it, John.
"Merikans are a funny lot when it comes to sex.
And anyone would be wrong if they thought it was only the Bible-thumpers who had the shivvies over sex.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[AggieDave 6]

What a lot of people don't see are all the other crimes surrounding prostitution. It isn't just about sex. It's about the violence, the drugs, the theft, the persons crimes, property crimes. It is staggering how much crime and violence surrounds the sex trade. You can nip away at the surrounding crimes or go after the center and help deter all the surrounding crimes at once.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

What a lot of people don't see are all the other crimes surrounding prostitution. It isn't just about sex. It's about the violence, the drugs, the theft, the persons crimes, property crimes. It is staggering how much crime and violence surrounds the sex trade. You can nip away at the surrounding crimes or go after the center and help deter all the surrounding crimes at once.

Question:
Do you think that the related crime would be less if prostitution were legal?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Quote

What a lot of people don't see are all the other crimes surrounding prostitution. It isn't just about sex. It's about the violence, the drugs, the theft, the persons crimes, property crimes. It is staggering how much crime and violence surrounds the sex trade. You can nip away at the surrounding crimes or go after the center and help deter all the surrounding crimes at once.

Question:
Do you think that the related crime would be less if prostitution were legal?

To a point, except that there would still be illegal prostitution, people unwilling or unable to comply with the safety regulations and licensing requirements. That same crime would follow the same criminals, but persons would have a safer and legal alternative paying for sex.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Kennedy 0]

[devil's advocate]
When does it become the prohibition on the act supporting the surrounding crimes? At what point is the prohibition counterproductive?
[/da]

The thing most folks miss is how many prostitutes are victims of human trafficking. This isn't some around the world, far away issue. Slavery is alive and well, even here in the USA. It just has nothing (or very, very little) to do with African Americans. I'll never forget the translations of interviews and interrogations after shutting down a "house of ill repute". This shit would shiver the spine and haunt the dreams of most folks if they ever had a freaking clue.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[GeorgiaDon 380]

Quote

>The US would do well to spend less effort trying to control what people do with their
>reproductive organs, and a bit more effort on controlling violence.

No one will be safe until we outlaw the scourge of oral sex.

=================
Virginia Gov. Candidate Cuccinelli Defending Law That Forbids Oral Sex

By Kate Sheppard
Wed Apr. 3, 2013 10:13 AM PDT

Last month, three judges on the US Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit deemed a Virginia anti-sodomy law unconstitutional. The provision, part of the state's "Crimes Against Nature" law, has been moot since the 2003 US Supreme Court decision overruled state laws barring consensual gay sex, but Virginia has kept the prohibition on the books.

Now Virginia attorney general and Republican gubernatorial candidate Ken Cuccinelli is asking the full 4th Circuit to reconsider the case. Cuccinelli wants the court to revive the prohibition on consensual anal and oral sex, for both gay and straight people.
==================

If that law passes, it'll be hard to swallow!

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Kennedy 0]

This has been a terrible week for puns! Keep em coming.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Bertt 0]

Quote

there would still be illegal theft of televisions, people unwilling or unable to pay for televisions. That same crime would follow the same criminals, but persons would have a safer and legal alternative paying for televisions.

So I'm thinking that you can associate crime with just about anything; some people steal food, some people bribe cops, some people beat their wives, but that doesn't equate to outlawing the object of the crime.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[masterblaster72 0]

Quote

What a lot of people don't see are all the other crimes surrounding prostitution. It isn't just about sex. It's about the violence, the drugs, the theft, the persons crimes, property crimes. It is staggering how much crime and violence surrounds the sex trade. You can nip away at the surrounding crimes or go after the center and help deter all the surrounding crimes at once.

Okay, that's an interesting take on this. But do you think it is necessary to publicly shame the patrons on tv and on the internet? One of these guys works for a well-known company in Philly and apparently has a wife and a kid. His life may well be ruined as a result of his name and picture being published in the local news, as I would not be surprised if he loses his job and his wife divorces him. Is this a fitting punishment in your book -- in addition to the punishment under the legal system as a consequence of breaking the law?

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

What a lot of people don't see are all the other crimes surrounding prostitution. It isn't just about sex. It's about the violence, the drugs, the theft, the persons crimes, property crimes. It is staggering how much crime and violence surrounds the sex trade. You can nip away at the surrounding crimes or go after the center and help deter all the surrounding crimes at once.

Okay, that's an interesting take on this. But do you think it is necessary to publicly shame the patrons on tv and on the internet? One of these guys works for a well-known company in Philly and apparently has a wife and a kid. His life may well be ruined as a result of his name and picture being published in the local news, as I would not be surprised if he loses his job and his wife divorces him. Is this a fitting punishment in your book -- in addition to the punishment under the legal system as a consequence of breaking the law?

Actually, it's worse than that. Because it's the internet, this stuff isn't going away any time soon. It potentially follows him around well after any fines paid or time served, possibly for the rest of his life. While it's true that once it hit the courts it becomes "public knowledge" and any investigator doing an extensive background check would be able to find it, this goes far beyond that. Now anybody who is vaguely interested in the person has easy access to it; even years from now.

Even being pilloried and put on display for the entire town was only something limited to the memories of the locals.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Actually, it's worse than that....

Good point.

We often talk about "punishment to fit the crime". Personally, I don't see that this punishment fits the crime.

Is it just me or is this country hell-bent on making everyone a criminal of some sort or other?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Quote

there would still be illegal theft of televisions, people unwilling or unable to pay for televisions. That same crime would follow the same criminals, but persons would have a safer and legal alternative paying for televisions.

So I'm thinking that you can associate crime with just about anything; some people steal food, some people bribe cops, some people beat their wives, but that doesn't equate to outlawing the object of the crime.

You can think that, but the association with prostitution has historically and continues to be shown to have significant crimes associated with it, not to be limited to human trafficking and violence.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Quote

His life may well be ruined as a result of his name and picture being published in the local news, as I would not be surprised if he loses his job and his wife divorces him. Is this a fitting punishment in your book -- in addition to the punishment under the legal system as a consequence of breaking the law?

Actually, it's worse than that. Because it's the internet, this stuff isn't going away any time soon. It potentially follows him around well after any fines paid or time served, possibly for the rest of his life. While it's true that once it hit the courts it becomes "public knowledge" and any investigator doing an extensive background check would be able to find it, this goes far beyond that. Now anybody who is vaguely interested in the person has easy access to it; even years from now.

Even being pilloried and put on display for the entire town was only something limited to the memories of the locals.

There are a couple of ways to look at this. First of all, the patrons shamed themselves with their choices long before their photo was published. Secondly, all of that court record is public information. Regardless as to if someone's photo is published in the paper it is already on the internet in many cases, along with the court documents and judgement. People need to understand that their choices have consequences and sometimes those consequences are significant. If a family man 's highest concern is public shaming due to using a prostitute, then there are larger issues in his life. My primary concern would have been my family, but my concerns are mine alone independent of what someone else may do. The reason why the public outing of johns has become popular, is that it is a significant tool to discourage people from making that choice. The idea is that thought of being caught and then receiving publicity about their choices deters some men from making the choice to commit the crime.

Is it right? Should someone have a chance to start over elsewhere? Well, there are some large what-ifs and it is larger than just a conviction for being a john. Court documents are public information, they are available for anyone to find and view. That includes things like booking photos, court proceedings, magistrate statements and judgements. There are some exceptions but generally those exceptions are in place to protect the victims, not the persons who commit the crime. Primarily that gives some transparency and accountability to the court, but in the modern world that gives people the opportunity to verify someone's past choices. If you choose to draw a line down a piece of paper and say that something like prostitution shouldn't be a crime that has court information publicly available, what other crimes are going to go on that side of the line? Where do you stop?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[devildog 0]

Quote

Quote

What a lot of people don't see are all the other crimes surrounding prostitution. It isn't just about sex. It's about the violence, the drugs, the theft, the persons crimes, property crimes. It is staggering how much crime and violence surrounds the sex trade. You can nip away at the surrounding crimes or go after the center and help deter all the surrounding crimes at once.

Question:
Do you think that the related crime would be less if prostitution were legal?

Research has shown that those crimes actually go up when its legalized.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[jakee 1,595]

Quote

Quote

Quote

What a lot of people don't see are all the other crimes surrounding prostitution. It isn't just about sex. It's about the violence, the drugs, the theft, the persons crimes, property crimes. It is staggering how much crime and violence surrounds the sex trade. You can nip away at the surrounding crimes or go after the center and help deter all the surrounding crimes at once.

Question:
Do you think that the related crime would be less if prostitution were legal?

Research has shown that those crimes actually go up when its legalized.

Please continue?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[GeorgiaDon 380]

Quote

His life may well be ruined as a result of his name and picture being published in the local news

Quote

Well, there are some large what-ifs and it is larger than just a conviction for being a john. Court documents are public information, they are available for anyone to find and view. That includes things like booking photos...

One issue this raises is that the damage is done to the accused by publishing all of this before he is even convicted. Whatever happened to "innocent before being proven guilty in a court of law"? Is the need to reduce crime sufficient justification to do away with the presumption of innocence?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[labrys 0]

I would not be surprised if he loses his job and his wife divorces him.***

Well, his wife definitely has every right to divorce him.

Owned by Remi #?