PD Forcing Residents From Home During Boston Manhunt

[ianmdrennan 2]

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If this happened in my area, I'd have been dead. Shot for resisting.

I doubt it. Lots of people say tough things, till they have the PD at their door - then they're submissive.

Like it or not, that's reality. Easy to talk tough when you're not in the situation.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[regulator 0]

If you want to fight back you cant live in a crowded city. Its simply too difficult to overcome. As Ive said before you will have to live in a rural environment and be prepared with MANY associates who are like minded. Create a choke point and be set up with a place to retreat. Being in a city environment simply isnt feasable for resistance.

[rehmwa 2]

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I doubt it. Lots of people say tough things, till they have the PD at their door - then they're submissive.

Like it or not, that's reality. Easy to talk tough when you're not in the situation.

I'm always turned off by the tough/preening talk like that post. However, what I think is reasonable to read into it is the position that one's home is private and due process is important.

Just because Lawrocket is a bit more elequent in communications, doesn't mean that Lurch's post isn't essentially the same position just presented with a little bluster. I support his position.

Skydivers are full of bluster.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[normiss 896]

You should talk to the cop that tackled me, in my own living room, in my own house, at 2 am.
For what he saw through the window.
A decorative ornament my father was given in Turkey in the 70's.
I've lived illegal search and seizure, stood up to the idiots, and won.
I know my rights in this regard.
They won't kick me in the coin purse again.

I do talk tough in the face of cops. I don't give a fuck.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Well, for starters, you can come to grips with the fact that every interaction with the police doesn't have to be a confrontation.

The anti-authority attitude runs strong in skydivers and gun owners and I actually have no issue with that. However, there are times when it might not be such a bad idea to put it on the back burner and just not be an asshole.

I think a massive manhunt for a known terrorist and cop killer just might be one of those times.

It doesn't need to be a confrontation, but that's not the same as allowing them into my home either. The recent record of the Court on discovery during unrelated searches makes it silly to be so 'cooperative.' This isn't the 60s/70s anymore where improper search actually protected you.

Civil libertarians are not assholes. But it's hardly a surprise to see you say this.

[lurch 0]

You misread my attitude.
I'm the furthest thing from a blustery wannabe rambo you can imagine. I never have trouble with law enforcement because I don't come off like its a confrontation. If I'm dumb enough to drive too fast, attract attention, I come off polite like "Didn't realize I was going fast enough to piss you guys off. Guess I was wrong. Hows this gonna play out?" 9 times out of ten they get the idea I'm not here to cop an attitude... I've had exactly 1 speeding ticket in the last decade. I've never gone to jail because I DON'T make a confrontation out of interacting with police. Its the LAST thing I want. I don't want to pick a fight, I just want to be left alone.

I know confrontational types and I'm not one of them. But I've also had my door kicked in by gankstas, (woke up being strangled actually) fought back and won. This is America, this is my neighborhood, not Cell Block 6. Last I knew by every law there is nothing in the system that says they can go door to door collecting families at gunpoint.
Frankly I think they're lucky as HELL that THEY didn't get shot. This isn't fucking Haditha. I'm not playing Rambo...I'm scared SHITLESS.
If you can't even hunkerdown and be left alone in your own home...
And yes, I will be staying the hell out of dense urban areas. If thats how they play now, I'm not staying there to be collected. I'm already out at the "edge of town" so to speak... but this makes it an active goal of mine to move someplace unconcentrated where the door-to-door SWAT raid shit won't come to me if this happens again. I was ROOTING for the cops throughout that incident... but this... this is just...plain... unacceptable. I've avoided activism until now. I'm about to get into it. Gotta draw a line somewhere and that line, is my front door.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[quade 4]

I didn't say "libertarians."

Let me see if I can make it more clear. If during an event such as this a person is not helping the police to capture a terrorist and cop killer, then that person is an asshole.

When a dozen cops are on a person's street going door to door looking for a terrorist and cop killer, it's actually ok to cut them a little fucking slack. Nobody is going to think your penis is any smaller because of it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,116]

>Civil libertarians are not assholes.

Some are, some aren't, like everyone else. And in general, cops will treat you like you treat them. Saying "I understand the risk but I don't want you to come in, sorry about that" - and then not resisting if they try - will work a lot better than running or fighting. Might also result in you winning in the end.

[normiss 896]

Admitting guilt to a law enforcement officer is NEVER a good idea.

[Andy9o8 2]

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If you want to fight back you cant live in a crowded city. Its simply too difficult to overcome. As Ive said before you will have to live in a rural environment and be prepared with MANY associates who are like minded. Create a choke point and be set up with a place to retreat. Being in a city environment simply isnt feasable for resistance.

Some urban guerrilla you'd make. Wussburger.

[regulator 0]

Thats so sweet of you andy. Admit it.

You missed me.

[ryoder 1,590]

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If you want to fight back you cant live in a crowded city. Its simply too difficult to overcome. As Ive said before you will have to live in a rural environment and be prepared with MANY associates who are like minded. Create a choke point and be set up with a place to retreat. Being in a city environment simply isnt feasable for resistance.

Some urban guerrilla you'd make. Wussburger.

I'll bet the Syrian rebels would agree.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jakee 1,595]

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Let me see if I can make it more clear. If during an event such as this a person is not helping the police to capture a terrorist and cop killer, then that person is an asshole.

The problem with that statement as it relates to reality is that letting them storm a house you know does not contain a murder suspect is not getting anyone any closer to apprehending that suspect.

BTW, if you replace the word 'terrorirst' with the words 'murder suspect' in all of your posts in this thread would you actually agree with your own argument? Just curious.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Southern_Man 0]

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I didn't say "libertarians."

Let me see if I can make it more clear. If during an event such as this a person is not helping the police to capture a terrorist and cop killer, then that person is an asshole.

What do you mean by "not helping?" Does "not helping" include letting them search my property when I am not required to? Because if so, I'm an asshole. Warrant or get off my porch.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[kelpdiver 2]

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I didn't say "libertarians."

Let me see if I can make it more clear. If during an event such as this a person is not helping the police to capture a terrorist and cop killer, then that person is an asshole.

Why be in denial, man? Just be sure to turn in any ACLU cards you might have.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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I didn't say "libertarians."

Let me see if I can make it more clear. If during an event such as this a person is not helping the police to capture a terrorist and cop killer, then that person is an asshole.

What do you mean by "not helping?" Does "not helping" include letting them search my property when I am not required to? Because if so, I'm an asshole. Warrant or get off my porch.

Well, they can stay on the porch.

But they can't come in the house without a warrant. I don't see how allowing random, unwarranted, unreasonable searches of everyone's house on the off chance he was in one of them is "helping".

When this was going down, I made a comment about that. I heard "house to house searches" and wondered out loud "Do they have warrants? They'd better if they wanted to search my house."

I'd do a quick check of the doors and windows for a possible entry. If none was present, I'd do a good search of the house. I don't have that many hiding places.
When the cops arrived, I'd have told them "He's not here, I already checked." Through the closed door.

I wouldn't have opened the door in the first place. Once they kick it in (and I fully realize that they probably would have), I'd tell them to leave. When (not if) they stayed and did their illegal search, I'd be on the phone to my lawyer and plan on suing the living daylights out of the city and the PD and anyone else.

This wasn't "exigent circumstances" it was a manhunt for one person. One incompetent person if you read the article linked in the "Mistakes" thread.

And Quade - Don't automatically equate "Civil Libertarians" with "Libertarians". CLs are nothing more than people who value civil liberties. The ACLU is the best example I can think of off the top of my head.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[quade 4]

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I didn't say "libertarians."
Let me see if I can make it more clear. If during an event such as this a person is not helping the police to capture a terrorist and cop killer, then that person is an asshole.

What do you mean by "not helping?" Does "not helping" include letting them search my property when I am not required to? Because if so, I'm an asshole. Warrant or get off my porch.

Yes. Doing that would be, in my opinion, assholishness because the person doing it is slowing down the process of capturing the terrorist and cop killer. Every second a person stands at their door, locks it, requires the cops to kick it down anyway . . . that person is helping the terrorist and cop killer . . . by tying up forces which could be moving forward to the next location.

A person may, in fact, be completely within their rights to do so, but it also makes them assholes.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lurch 0]

I don't think thats really "admitting guilt", is it? And I don't say anything in particular till they tell me what they want. That'd be my reply to being asked if I knew how fast I was going. "fast enough to piss you off" isn't anything specific, to me its just acknowledging that it must have been enough to do so or you wouldn't have pulled me over in the first place, right? More to the point though, is if I've been pulled over, I understand their point of view and expectations, so I cop a deliberately courteous and amiable attitude so they get the idea I'm not a threat nor confrontational. I've only actually spoken that line like twice in my life, both times it made the cop laugh and set a good tone for the rest of the encounter. Neither got a ticket.
back to topic...
I do think this new collecting citizens at gunpoint behavior will prove very counterproductive though. The lesson I draw is that if I ever hear the area I'm in is "under lockdown" I should bug the fuck out this second, flee the area before they can even expect to have cleared the cars already on the road and stay on the move, preferably the interstate, till its over or I'm far away enough not to matter.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[billvon 3,116]

>that person is helping the terrorist and cop killer . . .

Aren't the cops also helping the cop killer by wasting time on someone who has said that the guy isn't inside?

>A person may, in fact, be completely within their rights to do so, but it also makes them assholes.

Another good example of how both sides can be assholes on occasion.

[Southern_Man 0]

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I didn't say "libertarians."
Let me see if I can make it more clear. If during an event such as this a person is not helping the police to capture a terrorist and cop killer, then that person is an asshole.

What do you mean by "not helping?" Does "not helping" include letting them search my property when I am not required to? Because if so, I'm an asshole. Warrant or get off my porch.

Yes. Doing that would be, in my opinion, assholishness because the person doing it is slowing down the process of capturing the terrorist and cop killer. Every second a person stands at their door, locks it, requires the cops to kick it down anyway . . . that person is helping the terrorist and cop killer . . . by tying up forces which could be moving forward to the next location.

A person may, in fact, be completely within their rights to do so, but it also makes them assholes.

You and I have a very different definition of what somebody must do to be an asshole. I don't think a person is ever an asshole for exercising their civil rights.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[quade 4]

Really? Big fan of the Westboro Baptists then?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Southern_Man 0]

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Really? Big fan of the Westboro Baptists then?

I dislike their message but I don't hate them because they speak it. I am against any sort of government imposed limits on their speech rights.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[quade 4]

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Really? Big fan of the Westboro Baptists then?

I dislike their message but I don't hate them because they speak it. I am against any sort of government imposed limits on their speech rights.

So, you don't think they're being assholes by picketing funerals of servicemen and carrying signs that say the servicemen deserved to die?

Interesting.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

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I didn't say "libertarians."
Let me see if I can make it more clear. If during an event such as this a person is not helping the police to capture a terrorist and cop killer, then that person is an asshole.

What do you mean by "not helping?" Does "not helping" include letting them search my property when I am not required to? Because if so, I'm an asshole. Warrant or get off my porch.

Yes. Doing that would be, in my opinion, assholishness because the person doing it is slowing down the process of capturing the terrorist and cop killer. Every second a person stands at their door, locks it, requires the cops to kick it down anyway . . . that person is helping the terrorist and cop killer . . . by tying up forces which could be moving forward to the next location.

A person may, in fact, be completely within their rights to do so, but it also makes them assholes.

So according to you, expecting those who enforce the law to follow it is being an asshole? Shoot Paul, I thought you were a fan of civil liberty. Where do you draw the line? Should we give up constitutional protection for everyone who kills two or more? All murderers? Felons? All criminals? You want to allow raids. That is undoing the fourth. Why? What do you think you're gaining that's more valuable than the rule of law? What'll it take to convince you we should shred the rest of the fourth. Maybe we should allow excessive force during emergencies. Maybe you want to stop the spread of false or sensitive info. Should we shred the first? (I should say the rest of the first, since the "shelter in place" order already crushed the right to peacably assemble)

Just how much would you give up? And why call folks assholes who wouldn't do it? Plenty of folks would think you're being an asshole for offering up their rights at the altar of a false sense of security.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 4]

"False security"?!?

So, you're saying this entire thing was staged so cops could just search homes without warrants?

"False Security"?!?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver