OHCHUTE 0 #26 March 27, 2013 May strike it down. Feds will take care of their own. This is about health care benefits for gay Fed employees spouse and kids. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/27/us-usa-court-gaymarriage-idUSBRE92P04820130327 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #27 March 27, 2013 >I took the leading definition. Yep. Using the entire definition contradicts your assertion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #28 March 27, 2013 Quote>I took the leading definition. Yep. Using the entire definition contradicts your assertion. Is that your only discrepancy?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #29 March 27, 2013 Quote>I took the leading definition. Yep. Using the entire definition contradicts your assertion. Dispute #s 3,4,6,&7 then.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #30 March 27, 2013 QuoteQuote>I took the leading definition. Yep. Using the entire definition contradicts your assertion. Dispute #s 3,4,6,&7 then. Your grasp of logic is as poor as the Iowa guy's.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OHCHUTE 0 #31 March 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteYou mean, if they disqualify your definition of marriage. No. Not just MY definition . . . 1) Webster's - 1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law 2) Dictionary.com - mar·riage [mar-ij] Show IPA noun 1. a. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc. Antonyms: separation. 3) Java-man.com The Definition of Marriage (Nikah) The original meaning of the work nikah is the physical relationship between man and woman. It is also used secondarily to refer to the contract of marriage which makes that relationship lawful. Which of the two meanings is intended can be determined by the context in which it is used. 4) France FRANCE, January 31, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) – France’s Constitutional Council, its highest court for constitution issues, ruled on Friday that the country’s definition of marriage as between one man and one woman is valid under French constitution. 5) Oxford Dictionary Definition of marriage noun 1the formal union of a man and a woman, typically as recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife: 6) Legal Dictionary - The legal status, condition, or relationship that results from a contract by which one man and one woman, who have the capacity to enter into such an agreement, mutually promise to live together in the relationship of Husband and Wife in law for life, or until the legal termination of the relationship. 7) South Africa - The Marriage Act, 1961,[4] which allows for the solemnisation of a civil or religious marriage between a man and a woman. What about the Bible? Oldest book. Def? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 3 #32 March 27, 2013 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marriage QuoteDefinition of MARRIAGE 1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage And in the Oxford definition, you deliberately edited-out this passage: Quote(in some jurisdictions) a formal union between partners of the same sex. http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/marriage Tsk tsk. That was pretty dishonest of you. But it's still fun having you back to be wrong again. GM was getting lonely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,610 #33 March 27, 2013 QuoteI remember a long time ago when PeacefulJeffrey was quite insistent that gay people had exactly the same right as everybody else to marry someone of the opposite sex, so by demanding the right to marry the person they actually love they were demanding special rights. I also seem to recall that some who still post here were in complete agreement with that position. The great thing about that is that he (and they) were never quite able to understand the extension of the logic: they would be free to marry someone of the same sex in the same way a homosexual is free to marry someone of the opposite sex... so gays would not be getting any 'special' rights.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #34 March 27, 2013 QuoteWhat about the Bible? Oldest book. Def? nonsense, there are older books - heck, in Metamorphosis , by Ovid (Publius Ovidius Naso), Zeus turned into a bull and mated with a woman, Io. I think the child was named Epaphus (or that was the woman)..... Actually, Zeus had an affair with Io, then Hera turn Io into a cow, then Zeus did her in the form of a bull, which then resulted in Epaphus......it's a bit tricky.... Either way, that's a lot more confusing for poor Epaphus.....am I a calf? am I a kid? both? neither? But I think Ovid died around 8 A.D., so his works are older than some parts of the bible, but maybe not others....... edit: anyway, I don't think you want to say that really old books are a model for ideal marriages or parenting....ask Hera, or Epaphus ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #35 March 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou mean, if they disqualify your definition of marriage. No. Not just MY definition . . . 1) Webster's - 1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law 2) Dictionary.com - mar·riage [mar-ij] Show IPA noun 1. a. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc. Antonyms: separation. 3) Java-man.com The Definition of Marriage (Nikah) The original meaning of the work nikah is the physical relationship between man and woman. It is also used secondarily to refer to the contract of marriage which makes that relationship lawful. Which of the two meanings is intended can be determined by the context in which it is used. 4) France FRANCE, January 31, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) – France’s Constitutional Council, its highest court for constitution issues, ruled on Friday that the country’s definition of marriage as between one man and one woman is valid under French constitution. 5) Oxford Dictionary Definition of marriage noun 1the formal union of a man and a woman, typically as recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife: 6) Legal Dictionary - The legal status, condition, or relationship that results from a contract by which one man and one woman, who have the capacity to enter into such an agreement, mutually promise to live together in the relationship of Husband and Wife in law for life, or until the legal termination of the relationship. 7) South Africa - The Marriage Act, 1961,[4] which allows for the solemnisation of a civil or religious marriage between a man and a woman. What about the Bible? Oldest book. Def? Who cares?Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,610 #36 March 27, 2013 QuoteWhat about the Bible? Oldest book. Def? It is neither the oldest book nor is it the one that the word 'marriage' comes from. You weren't under the misapprehension that the word 'marriage' had christian or even judaic roots, were you?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #37 March 27, 2013 Can you see anything that would prevent a father from marrying his adult son or a woman marrying her adult daughter? Traditionally it has been illegal to marry a blood relative because of the genetic risk. If we eliminate that risk, I can't see how it could continue to be illegal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,602 #38 March 27, 2013 I think it's gross, but I agree. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #39 March 27, 2013 QuoteCan you see anything that would prevent a father from marrying his adult son or a woman marrying her adult daughter? Traditionally it has been illegal to marry a blood relative because of the genetic risk. If we eliminate that risk, I can't see how it could continue to be illegal. Then let them marry. I wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't stop anybody else from doing it either. Two CONSENTING ADULTS (IE: not your dog, your horse, a minor child, ect) should be able to do whatever they want if it's not hurting anybody else or infringing on anybody elses rights.Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #40 March 27, 2013 >Can you see anything that would prevent a father from marrying his adult son No more so than current law would prevent a father from marrying his adult daughter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #41 March 27, 2013 QuoteNo more so than current law would prevent a father from marrying his adult daughter. But that's not like, gay.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #42 March 27, 2013 QuoteCan you see anything that would prevent a father from marrying his adult son or a woman marrying her adult daughter? that's 'romantic marriage' we all have to recall - that when talking about government benefits "benefits", not 'rights" - any physical or romantic aspect is absolutely moot 'marriage' as far as the government is concerned - is just a legal contract that the government acknowledges as tying off some pre-defined benefits or considerations they set up for it. Absolutely not equal treatment for individuals of any kind....... I so much prefer - civil union, or civil contract, for everyone, as it doesn't have the connotations attached. So, in that case, if anyone wants to enter into a contract with one, or more than one other concerning long term mutual cooperation in terms of: inheritance, hospital visits, mutual ownership, decision making, I really don't care. (see that list nowhere includes where they sleep, who's on top, whether it's love/like/lust/indifference/etc, who gets to drive the new car vs the old car, etc etc etc - it's not the government's business) Frankly - parenthood, as far as established rules go, is pretty close to a one sided marriage - inheritance is defined, you get to make medical decisions, you live in the same local, you share expenses (usually only one way), you can bring the kid from another country if they are born there, etc etc. So many parts of the assumed contractual part is pretty darn close. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #43 March 27, 2013 This remains a tough issue for me. On the one hand, I’m all for allowing consenting adults to marry. Let them do whatever they want so long as the consent. Problem: how does one ensure consent in such a situation? Like it or not, and it’s one of the things I absolutely believe MUST be recognized as a society, is the prevalence of abuse between adults and children – including between biological parents and children. When a child (let’s say a daughter) has lived under the absolute control and fear of a father, that ADULT daughter may not feel the ability to consent. In such a case, I may actually be in favor of a presumption that the offspring has not consented to marry and lacks the capacity to consent to marriage in this instance. In the event that the consent is true and real, then either may petition for authority to marry. An abuser, of course, would not want to provide the opportunity for this to happen. Edited to add: Lyram45 - I what are your thoughts on this? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,602 #44 March 27, 2013 I think that's an excellent point; one I didn't think of. I know you didn't ask my opinion, but, well, that never stopped me before, did it Wendy P. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #45 March 27, 2013 I see what you are saying. In some States a child can marry as young as 14 as long as the parents consent. What happens when a father gives consent to marry his 14 year old son? InNew Hapshire, a woman as young as 13 can marry with parental consent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #46 March 27, 2013 Listened to NPR's coverage. Kegan and Ginsburg were excellent. Scalia sounded petulant and his points came over like intellectual masturbation.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #47 March 27, 2013 QuoteI see what you are saying. In some States a child can marry as young as 14 as long as the parents consent. What happens when a father gives consent to marry his 14 year old son? InNew Hapshire, a woman as young as 13 can marry with parental consent. Yet you can't skydive under 18 even with parents' consent, and you can't buy booze under 21. Lot's of inconsistencies REGARDLESS of the gender of the offspring.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #48 March 27, 2013 QuoteWhat happens when a father gives consent to marry his 14 year old son? So.. you seem to have a basic grasp of the meaning of consent. You just can't use it in sentences yet.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #49 March 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteWhat happens when a father gives consent to marry his 14 year old son? So.. you seem to have a basic grasp of the meaning of consent. You just can't use it in sentences yet. What a stupid statement. I guess we couldn't have expected anything better, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #50 March 27, 2013 Quote Quote Quote What happens when a father gives consent to marry his 14 year old son? So.. you seem to have a basic grasp of the meaning of consent. You just can't use it in sentences yet. What a stupid statement. I guess we couldn't have expected anything better, though. I thought it quite pertinent. Maybe you are exhibiting a Dunning-Kruger behavior.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
