Gotta love those kids these days!

[sfzombie 3]

i have read too much about dna evidence to be overturned by labs having bad techniques, and it's a known fact that eyewitness testimony is inherently false most of the time, ask any detectives. having said that, i am in favor of the death penalty, in most cases. especially in the case of drunk driving. simple example, dude drives drunk, hits car, kills occupants of car. cops arrive, use breathalyzer to determine dude was drunk(and blood test in this case). test comes back positive. death penalty, take him behind the car and execute him.

http://kitswv.com

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>No one with a lick of common sense would trust any government with 100%
>control over life and death,but thats why we have the second amendment.

People on death row don't get guns.

If you are in favor of the death penalty, then you have to trust the government 100% to make that decision. (I'm sure if you trusted them to make the right decision, say, 80% of the time, you wouldn't be OK with them killing innocent people 1 out of 5 times.)

I have no problem in concept with the death penalty. Someone who commits a heinous enough crime that they can simply no longer be trusted to live in society has to be removed from society, and capital punishment is just as effective as life in prison with no parole. However, I just don't trust the government to be right 100% of the time - and with life in prison there is a way to correct their mistakes.

Here's just one example. Colin Campbell Ross was executed in 1922 for the horrific murder of a 12 year old girl. She was found naked in a dumpster. They found some of her hairs in Ross's bed, suggesting she was raped. The murder and rape of a 12 year old! Guy doesn't deserve to live. He was executed for the crime.

They didn't have the technology to prove that it wasn't him until decades later.

That's an old example, and probably the most famous. There are examples extending through 2004 of people who were executed, only to later find evidence exonerating them.

Now let's look at the alternative - life in prison. James Bain was arrested for burglary and the kidnapping and rape of a 9-year old boy in 1974. Again a horrific crime and the boy identified him in a lineup. He was given life in prison. In 2010 he was exonerated as the result of DNA testing.

Both were travesties of justice. Which one is the more acceptable mistake for the government to make?

You missed the point. It is a result of science that would allow better decision making. Things that happened in the past can't be undone that science revealed. Now tell us how the 12 year olds hair got in his bed, or was it not her hair?

[toolbox 0]

Like I said Bill,I used to be against the death sentence,but just as DNA and all the other modern technology has proven innocence,it can also prove guilt above and beyond a reasonable doubt.
Because of the use of these technologies I'm now for the death penalty.
Housing,feeding,clothing,and health care for imprisoned murderers should be far more costly than killing them,and if not,there is something very wrong going on.

[billvon 3,132]

> test comes back positive. death penalty, take him behind the car and execute him.

oops, breathalyzer was out of cal and I didn't know he was a diabetic. He sure looked drunk. Sorry about your father, kids. Yeah, I shot him in the face, but I'm a cop so there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

[ryoder 1,590]

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Like I said Bill,I used to be against the death sentence,but just as DNA and all the other modern technology has proven innocence,it can also prove guilt above and beyond a reasonable doubt.

So how do you prove where the two samples being compared came from?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,590]

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I used to be against the death penalty,but now with all the modern forensic technology(DNA testing,video evidence,ect) I think that proof beyond a reasonable doubt is a reality now.

You really think every cop and every prosecutor is honest???
I see stories every week about cases where crooked authorities faked and/or withheld evidence.

Or a high profile rape case against the Duke University Lacrosse team....

And another: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolando_Cruz_case

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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> test comes back positive. death penalty, take him behind the car and execute him.

oops, breathalyzer was out of cal and I didn't know he was a diabetic. He sure looked drunk. Sorry about your father, kids. Yeah, I shot him in the face, but I'm a cop so there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

It is true there have been employees that have tainted samples. There needs better controls over testing. This doesn't mean death shouldn't be handed out. Test DNA 3 times via independent labs.
And what if, the guy was so bloody and admits to the crime. Should be death pretty soon after the confession, not never or not 15 years later and not after he needs to kill two other inmates and a guard to finally convince the state to pull the switch or depress the plunger.

[billvon 3,132]

>Like I said Bill,I used to be against the death sentence,but just as DNA and all the
>other modern technology has proven innocence,it can also prove guilt above and
>beyond a reasonable doubt.

If you could be executed for particularly heinous cases of rape, should this guy have been put to death?

=================
DNA Mix Up Leads to Rape Case Review in Florida

Created: September 27, 201

DNA evidence used to convict a man for a violent home invasion and rape was mislabeled, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. Now, an alleged Altamonte Springs rape victim may have to relive what happened to her years after the attack.

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement said it mixed labels on the DNA from the suspect and the alleged victim's boyfriend. . . .

On Monday, FDLE admitted its lab blundered the case against her accused rapist, Andrew Lingard, which resulted in his conviction, using the wrong DNA evidence. "We should have caught that mistake at that time," said FDLE special agent Joyce Dawley.

FDLE found out about the 2004 mistake two weeks ago.
=================

[ryoder 1,590]

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>Like I said Bill,I used to be against the death sentence,but just as DNA and all the
>other modern technology has proven innocence,it can also prove guilt above and
>beyond a reasonable doubt.

If you could be executed for particularly heinous cases of rape, should this guy have been put to death?

=================
DNA Mix Up Leads to Rape Case Review in Florida

Created: September 27, 201

DNA evidence used to convict a man for a violent home invasion and rape was mislabeled, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. Now, an alleged Altamonte Springs rape victim may have to relive what happened to her years after the attack.

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement said it mixed labels on the DNA from the suspect and the alleged victim's boyfriend. . . .

On Monday, FDLE admitted its lab blundered the case against her accused rapist, Andrew Lingard, which resulted in his conviction, using the wrong DNA evidence. "We should have caught that mistake at that time," said FDLE special agent Joyce Dawley.

FDLE found out about the 2004 mistake two weeks ago.
=================

Now see?
If he had quickly been put to death, all the evidence would have been disposed of afterward, and we wouldn't have this embarrassment!
Won't someone think of the poor authorities?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[sfzombie 3]

yep. end of story. and i did say a blood test should be required, they are much harder to fake and don't need to be calibrated. diabetics don't show positive for bac tests.

http://kitswv.com

[billvon 3,132]

>There needs better controls over testing. This doesn't mean death shouldn't be handed out.

The system needs to be improved, but there are no reasons to keep the system from executing people?

Sorta backwards in my book. Fix the system FIRST, then if the government proves it can be trusted, then allow them to execute people.

It blows my mind that in general the same people who think that government cannot be trusted to do a background check on a gun seller should be trusted to put that same person to death.

>And what if, the guy was so bloody and admits to the crime.

And if he was standing behind the victim when she was killed with a shotgun blast? And he's bipolar in his depressive phase? Then no, he shouldn't be put to death until they determine who really killed her. Even if he confesses.

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>There needs better controls over testing. This doesn't mean death shouldn't be handed out.

The system needs to be improved, but there are no reasons to keep the system from executing people?

Sorta backwards in my book. Fix the system FIRST, then if the government proves it can be trusted, then allow them to execute people.

It blows my mind that in general the same people who think that government cannot be trusted to do a background check on a gun seller should be trusted to put that same person to death.

>And what if, the guy was so bloody and admits to the crime.

And if he was standing behind the victim when she was killed with a shotgun blast? And he's bipolar in his depressive phase? Then no, he shouldn't be put to death until they determine who really killed her. Even if he confesses.

Then there is no friggin reason to take guns from the NORMAL people just because one of your bipoler guys lets off some steam now is there?

And when the coat hanger is around your neck and you're begging for mercy as you're being shanked too by the home intruder do you worry if he is bipoler or not? What would your feeling about the death penalty be then as your life fades before you?

As was mentioned. This perp needs not be here.

[billvon 3,132]

>Then there is no friggin reason to take guns from the NORMAL people just because
>one of your bipoler guys lets off some steam now is there?

Agreed. I think all sane, law abiding adults in the US should have the right to buy a gun.

>And when the coat hanger is around your neck and you're begging for mercy as
>you're being shanked too by the home intruder do you worry if he is bipoler or not?

Well I'd probably be trying to stop him rather than chattering, but that's just me.

> What would your feeling about the death penalty be then as your life fades before you?

That it didn't do me one damn bit of good.

[toolbox 0]

I never said DNA evidence is all that is needed for proof of guilt.
There are many scources of evidence that can be used together with DNA.
Audio,video,text messages,figerprints,shoe prints,tire prints,gps in electronic devices,witness,ect....,can be used as evidence.
When all the evidence is conclusive,say for instance a law officer sees someone punch his partner in the side of the head with brass knuckles and kill them, and it is also caught on the dashcam,and seen by several pedestrians as well who also take cell phone video.
That is alot of hard proof even without DNA that the person is guilty of murder.

[billvon 3,132]

>Audio,video,text messages,figerprints,shoe prints,tire prints,gps in electronic
>devices,witness,ect....,can be used as evidence.

Agreed! All of which are generally less reliable than DNA evidence.

>When all the evidence is conclusive,say for instance a law officer sees someone punch
>his partner in the side of the head with brass knuckles and kill them, and it is also
>caught on the dashcam,and seen by several pedestrians as well who also take cell
>phone video.

Good example.

Now let's say that guy gets away, and he's a black guy with a scar. So they catch a black guy with a scar. That cop is going to be almost insane with anger, seeing his partner of 20 years killed right in front of him while he stands there impotently. He's going to want to bring the perp to justice. And if he's just 99% sure that this was the guy - he's going to be likely to overlook that slight shadow of a doubt and say "absolutely, that's the guy who killed my partner." Because the alternative is letting him go and admitting that the guy who killed his partner . . . got away, and it's his fault.

That's human nature, and that's why we have such an exhaustive system of checks and balances in justice. And that's also how the system, on occasion, gets things wrong. Especially in a case like this where people are saying "it's on video! Sure, it's grainy but . . . there were witnesses! They saw the scar. And the cop SAW THE GUY DO IT. Guilty, end of story."

[toolbox 0]

Now add the blood splatter and other DNA transfer that often happens in a scuffle,like skin under finger nails and hair,ect.

[Remster 30]

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Now add the blood splatter and other DNA transfer that often happens in a scuffle,like skin under finger nails and hair,ect.

You watch too much TV.

Remster

[rehmwa 2]

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Now add the blood splatter and other DNA transfer that often happens in a scuffle,like skin under finger nails and hair,ect.

You watch too much TV.

sure, the stuff in those forensic shows is awfully expensive

On the flip side, Billvon's already assuming that the cop is insane for revenge, and his partner was with him for 20 years, etc etc etc - it's a bad Arnold movie. Or at least an average Bruce Willis movie. Or about as good a Eric Roberts movie as he can deliver... "this time it's PERSONAL"

so we have a lot of great assumptions from TV - fun stuff

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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They really need to get that execution cocktail sorted out. Now inmates are sueing the state for using illegal obtained drugs in the mix.

While we are on the subject of guns and since so many people have died from guns it is NOT UNUSUAL to die from a gun. And should you die quickly from a gun is is not CRUEL. I say shotgun blast to the chest with 1 1/8 oz of #6 shot will remove the heart instantly. Cost: less than a dollar for the shell.

[toolbox 0]

Ten pound sledge hammer to the back of the head,and very reusable as well if you want cheap.

[toolbox 0]

If you have ever been in a brawl with a worthy opponent,you would know that there can be alot of spit,blood,snot,skin,broken nails ,occasional teeth,and hair flying around.
I've even been bit twice myself.
All this can happen in seconds.
I seen a guy about 5'11" 215lb hit a guy with one punch in the morton washington dance hall parking lot during the loggers jubilee, and the guy almost died, and was never quite right after he came out of the coma with teeth missing.
The punch was brutal,but landing on the trailer hitch with the back of his head most likely caused the most damage.
Point is that there can be alot of DNA passed around in a fight.