Well I guess she's going run if she's after the gay vote- HILLARY

[OHCHUTE 0]

Bill is smirking. He'll be back in the white house but this time he'll not get as much attention. Horah for entertainment. Now, lets see what is up next. OH, the Latin contingent. The most coveted market segment.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57574870/hillary-clinton-announces-support-for-same-sex-marriage/

[Andy9o8 2]

But according to you, the White House interior decorating will drastically improve. I urge you to vote for her.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

But according to you, the White House interior decorating will drastically improve. I urge you to vote for her.

since all other campaign promises are crap anyway, it's probably as good a criteria for selecting a president from either party as any other criteria

I'm sold.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

Yet another example of where my being glad she saidudghgbvnbguu it is vastly overcome with the, "what the hell took her so long?"

I find it especially irritating that she waited until AFTER she was out of government public service to make this statement (at least the President was still President when he finally decided last year that he supports gay rights four years after running a campaign that opposed such things as gay marriage).

So much wasted time... (And yes, I hold Democrats responsible. We don't expect this from Republicans. We've been expecting it from Democrats.)

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 2]

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saidudghgbvnbguu

Que??

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I find it especially irritating that she waited until AFTER she was out of government public service to make this statement

How is gay marriage as domestic policy in the US within the portfolio of a sitting Secretary of State?

[NWFlyer 2]

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saidudghgbvnbguu

Que??

Maybe one of the kids got hold of the keyboard?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[lawrocket 3]

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saidudghgbvnbguu

Que??

My ass got a hold of the phone.

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How is gay marriage as domestic policy in the US within the portfolio of a sitting Secretary of State?

Outside of the purview of the First Lady? How about that of a Senator? Secretary of State - okay, I'll grant you that. 2008 Presidential candidate who backed civil unions but NOT gay marriage?

There's the rub - it's not taking a stand to do the right thing because now the public is generally in support of it. The stand should have been taken 20 years ago when she was First Lady.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 2]

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saidudghgbvnbguu

Que??

My ass got a hold of the phone.

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How is gay marriage as domestic policy in the US within the portfolio of a sitting Secretary of State?

Outside of the purview of the First Lady? How about that of a Senator? Secretary of State - okay, I'll grant you that. 2008 Presidential candidate who backed civil unions but NOT gay marriage?

There's the rub - it's not taking a stand to do the right thing because now the public is generally in support of it. The stand should have been taken 20 years ago when she was First Lady.

First Consorts are under tremendous pressure to either support the Head Honcho's line or STFU, so I give her a pass on that. Besides, she was too busy baking cookies then.

As senator - ok, I'll grant you that.

[GeorgiaDon 380]

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There's the rub - it's not taking a stand to do the right thing because now the public is generally in support of it. The stand should have been taken 20 years ago when she was First Lady.

So, have you never changed your mind about any issue? I wouldn't have taken you for the sort of person who crystallized their ideas when they were 12 and have never reappraised them since.

Chasing polls isn't a good character trait in politicians, but neither is intellectual ossification. I prefer people who can reassess their position based on new data, or who can actually shake off small minded prejudices they inherit from their upbringing.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[jakee 1,596]

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Chasing polls isn't a good character trait in politicians, but neither is intellectual ossification. I prefer people who can reassess their position based on new data, or who can actually shake off small minded prejudices they inherit from their upbringing.

I think Lawrocket's point is that the only re-assessment being done is in terms of whether stating support for it will be a sufficiently popular thing to do. As in, she has probably morally supported it for a long time but is only now willing to stick her head above the parapet.

And I'd say he's right.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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Quote

There's the rub - it's not taking a stand to do the right thing because now the public is generally in support of it. The stand should have been taken 20 years ago when she was First Lady.

So, have you never changed your mind about any issue? I wouldn't have taken you for the sort of person who crystallized their ideas when they were 12 and have never reappraised them since.

Chasing polls isn't a good character trait in politicians, but neither is intellectual ossification. I prefer people who can reassess their position based on new data, or who can actually shake off small minded prejudices they inherit from their upbringing.

Don

It is a flip flopping vs evolving if I remember correctly

Of course whether or not you get a way with it is based on your party affiliation

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Quote

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There's the rub - it's not taking a stand to do the right thing because now the public is generally in support of it. The stand should have been taken 20 years ago when she was First Lady.

So, have you never changed your mind about any issue? I wouldn't have taken you for the sort of person who crystallized their ideas when they were 12 and have never reappraised them since.

Chasing polls isn't a good character trait in politicians, but neither is intellectual ossification. I prefer people who can reassess their position based on new data, or who can actually shake off small minded prejudices they inherit from their upbringing.

Don

It is a flip flopping vs evolving if I remember correctly

Of course whether or not you get a way with it is based on your party affiliation

Indeed. For example, Google ( Romney + "flip flops" ) and you'll get 1.2 million hits:

http://www.google.com/search?q=romney+%22flip+flops%22&hl=en&gbv=2&gs_l=heirloom-hp.3..0l7.6327.9173.0.9517.16.10.0.6.6.0.132.777.9j1.10.0...0.0...1c.1.8LwLfiHEKkQ&oq=romney+%22flip+flops%22

[rushmc 23]

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There's the rub - it's not taking a stand to do the right thing because now the public is generally in support of it. The stand should have been taken 20 years ago when she was First Lady.

So, have you never changed your mind about any issue? I wouldn't have taken you for the sort of person who crystallized their ideas when they were 12 and have never reappraised them since.

Chasing polls isn't a good character trait in politicians, but neither is intellectual ossification. I prefer people who can reassess their position based on new data, or who can actually shake off small minded prejudices they inherit from their upbringing.

Don

It is a flip flopping vs evolving if I remember correctly

Of course whether or not you get a way with it is based on your party affiliation

Indeed. For example, Google ( Romney + "flip flops" ) and you'll get 1.2 million hits:

http://www.google.com/search?q=romney+%22flip+flops%22&hl=en&gbv=2&gs_l=heirloom-hp.3..0l7.6327.9173.0.9517.16.10.0.6.6.0.132.777.9j1.10.0...0.0...1c.1.8LwLfiHEKkQ&oq=romney+%22flip+flops%22

Which fully demonstrates the point I made

It IS party dependant

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

Right.

[rushmc 23]

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Right.

Try the same search for Hillary or Obama?

Will you find it? Yes

To the same degree? Not a chance as the media has their 6

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

the media

You mean like FoxNews, Wall Street Journal, Washington Times, Boston Herald, National Review, Forbes, US News & World Report, or Drudge Report?

Or how about these, listed in a website called Conservative Newspapers in 50 States :

bq. Alabama - Mobile Register Alaska Arizona - East Valley Tribune Arkansas - Arkansas Democrat-Gazette California - The OC Register, San Diego Union-Tribune, Riverside Press-Enterprise, Investors Business Daily, North County Times, The Daily Breeze, LA Daily News bq. Colorado - Colorado Springs Gazette, Grand Junction Sentinel, Rocky Mountain News Connecticut - Waterbury Republican-American Delaware District of Columbia - Washington Times, DC Examiner Florida - Florida Times-Union bq. Georgia - Augusta Chronicle, Savannah Morning News, The Gwinnett Daily Post, Marietta Daily Journal Hawaii Idaho - Idaho Statesman Illinois - Chicago Tribune, Belleville News Democrat, Bloomington Normal Pantagraph, Joliet Herald News Indiana - Kokomo Tribune bq. Iowa - Sioux City Journal Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine bq. Maryland - The Capital Massachusetts - Boston Herald Michigan - Detroit News, Grand Rapids Press Minnesota - Winona Post, New Ulm Journal Mississippi - Biloxi Sun Herald bq. Missouri Montana Nebraska - The Ledger Nevada - Las Vegas Review-Journal New Hampshire - Manchester Union Leader bq. New Jersey New Mexico New York - Wall Street Journal, New York Post, New York Sun North Carolina North Dakota bq. Ohio Oklahoma - Tulsa Beacon, The Oklahoman Oregon - Albany Democrat-Herald Pennsylvania - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, The Pottstown Mercury Rhode Island bq. South Carolina - Charleston Post and Courier, Spartanburg Herald Journal South Dakota Tennessee Texas - Amarillo Globe-News, Dallas Morning News Utah - bq. Vermont - The Caledonian-Record Virginia - The Richmond Times-Dispatch, Fredericksburg Free Lance-Star, The Daily News-Record, Winchester Star Washington West Virginia - Charleston Daily Mail

[GeorgiaDon 380]

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I think Lawrocket's point is that the only re-assessment being done is in terms of whether stating support for it will be a sufficiently popular thing to do. As in, she has probably morally supported it for a long time but is only now willing to stick her head above the parapet.

And I'd say he's right.

And I'd say I can't claim to be able to read people's minds. Gay marriage is a socially complex issue, which forces anybody over the age of about 40 to reassess values that were dogmatic when they were in their "formative years". So in such a case I'm willing to cut people some slack and accept that it is possible that their thinking has just evolved. Maybe I'm not cynical enough for Speaker's Corner?

Now if she took diametrically opposite stances on the issue on the same day, when talking to different audiences, I'd be happy to accept that as evidence of politically opportunistic flip-flopping, as was typified by Romney in the last campaign.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rushmc 23]

How many hits?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

How many hits?

How many you got?

[rushmc 23]

Ok you do not want to do an apples to apples comparison

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Ok you do not want to do an apples to apples comparison

I guess we're talking past each other. Seemed clear as a windowpane to me.

[airdvr 210]

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Ok you do not want to do an apples to apples comparison

I guess we're talking past each other. Seemed clear as a windowpane to me.

When were you appointed as the SC liberal bouncer? You don't answer direct questions, rather you offer pithy comments and re-directs. I suppose it's safer for you to remain mute on issues instead of contributing and proving you're mistaken?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Andy9o8 2]

I can't help it if you, too, don't get the joke.
OK, maybe it was obscure.
Anyhow, timing is everything.

[Andy9o8 2]

OK, maybe this will help, if it's in plain language.

1. No, it's not just Democratic politicians who flip flop according to the opinion polls and phases of the moon. Romney was legend for doing that, since he campaigned for governor (and then governed) to a very moderate electorate in Massachusetts, then campaigned to a very conservative sub-electorate in the GOP presidential primaries. I linked the foundation for various concrete examples in post #12.

2. No, it's an arcane, simplistic criticism that the mainstream news media are presumptively liberal. There are many mainstream news outlets that are moderate and neutral, and many that are very conservative. I listed and linked a number of concrete examples of the latter in post #16.

As for posts #19 & 21, those were inside jokes that I figured people who'd lived through the 1970s would probably get.

ETA: I was also joking when I called you Claire Voyant in the other thread. I'm sure you could probably kick my ass.

[rushmc 23]

Hits, windowpain

I got it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln