Bolas 5 #26 March 7, 2013 QuoteQuote You can't launch a nuke strike with that It’s almost like you think they’d be upset if they ended up sending up a nuke without sufficient energy that tumbles out of control and hits Nunavut When does one stop trying to reason with the unreasonable? +1.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #27 March 7, 2013 QuoteQuoteIts not in Chinas interests for NK to commit serious cyber attacks on the USA Certainly not; that's China's own special turf. It's shit like that which starts mob wars. QuotePeople laughed when Bin Laden declared war on the USA in '98 and all he had was some flip flops and a cave. The VC won a war against the great satan with flip flops and black pj's. OK, and a few SAMs, but you get the point. China is careful what it targets banks for example are off limits, NK is unpredictable. Re: The VC, then America didn't learn a damn thing Andy, they still laughed.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #28 March 7, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteIts not in Chinas interests for NK to commit serious cyber attacks on the USA Certainly not; that's China's own special turf. It's shit like that which starts mob wars. QuotePeople laughed when Bin Laden declared war on the USA in '98 and all he had was some flip flops and a cave. The VC won a war against the great satan with flip flops and black pj's. OK, and a few SAMs, but you get the point. China is careful what it targets banks for example are off limits, NK is unpredictable. Re: The VC, then America didn't learn a damn thing Andy, they still laughed. IIRC we lost the Vietnam War because of micro-managing by congress. If they had given the military full control, the VC would have been mostly eradicated."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 3 #29 March 7, 2013 QuoteIIRC I don't think you do. No time to post at length now, but I think you're greatly over-simplifying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #30 March 7, 2013 QuoteQuoteIIRC I don't think you do. No time to post at length now, but I think you're greatly over-simplifying. I thought it was because of politics... Sorry if I got it wrong."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #31 March 7, 2013 Quote Quote You can't launch a nuke strike with that It’s almost like you think they’d be upset if they ended up sending up a nuke without sufficient energy that tumbles out of control and hits Nunavut When does one stop trying to reason with the unreasonable? I'm going to let the answer to the last question go. just too many example here on SC. That said, unreasonable as they might be, they aren't going to commit suicide without a reasonable expectation of doing some damage along the way. That just doesn't make any sense. They might be willing to go up in a poof of smoke, but they're going to want to make damn sure they take some of us with them. I don't think they'd make an attack unless they were certain they had a reasonable chance of doing some damage.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 3 #32 March 7, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteIIRC I don't think you do. No time to post at length now, but I think you're greatly over-simplifying. I thought it was because of politics... Sorry if I got it wrong. Well, in large part it was, but it surely wasn't all Congress. A lot of it was Presidential - first LBJ & McNamara, and then Nixon & Kissinger. Some criticism is fairly directed at the military itself, too. And I disagree with those who think that the US military would have achieved "victory" left unhindered. Wish I could post at greater length now; fascinating subject; just don't have the time now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #33 March 7, 2013 >You underestimate the launch problem with that. Isn't a submarine a ship?Boomer subs can fire alot of missles can't they? If you can launch from a sub then why not a ship? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #34 March 7, 2013 Quote>You underestimate the launch problem with that. Isn't a submarine a ship?Boomer subs can fire alot of missles can't they? If you can launch from a sub then why not a ship? Because NK doesn't have the technology to do either! They don't even have the tech to successfully launch off a completely stable and rock solid platform yet.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #35 March 8, 2013 QuoteThey currently do not have the tech to deliver the weapon. Maybe in a few years, but their last missile launch barely got into orbit and was tumbling unstable. You can't launch a nuke strike with that. They intend to mail it. They are trying to beat the deadline before Saturday delivery is ended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #36 March 8, 2013 Quote It will take days for NK to fuel a missile, that currently can't even reach Los Angeles, much less Washington. did the Japanese attack washington ?? scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #37 March 8, 2013 Quote Quote It will take days for NK to fuel a missile, that currently can't even reach Los Angeles, much less Washington. did the Japanese attack washington ?? No, the Japanese attacked the American Navy and the bulk of it's fleet. For the NKs to hit Hawaii would be a major task. It's a very, very small target."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #38 March 8, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIIRC I don't think you do. No time to post at length now, but I think you're greatly over-simplifying. I thought it was because of politics... Sorry if I got it wrong. Well, in large part it was, but it surely wasn't all Congress. A lot of it was Presidential - first LBJ & McNamara, and then Nixon & Kissinger. Some criticism is fairly directed at the military itself, too. And I disagree with those who think that the US military would have achieved "victory" left unhindered. Wish I could post at greater length now; fascinating subject; just don't have the time now. When you do have time I'd like to know what the POTUS's could have done differently which would have made a difference. Seeing as you lived through this I'd be very interested to hear your opinion on the matter Andy.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #39 March 8, 2013 Quote Quote It will take days for NK to fuel a missile, that currently can't even reach Los Angeles, much less Washington. did the Japanese attack washington ?? Yep, why bother when there are circa 20-30K Americans within easy reach on the peninsula?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #40 March 8, 2013 Quote Quote Quote It will take days for NK to fuel a missile, that currently can't even reach Los Angeles, much less Washington. did the Japanese attack washington ?? Yep, why bother when there are circa 20-30K Americans within easy reach on the peninsula? Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm thinking. The small missile arsenal they already have, if unleashed, could make Iraq's Scud attacks or Hamas and Hezbollah's rocket attacks seem puny in comparison. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #41 March 8, 2013 QuoteFor the NKs to hit Hawaii would be a major task. It's a very, very small target. The big island is 90 miles across. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #42 March 8, 2013 QuoteQuoteFor the NKs to hit Hawaii would be a major task. It's a very, very small target. The big island is 90 miles across. Which is STILL a tiny target in the middle of the Pacific Ocean for a country who hasn't learned to aim a ICBM yet."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #43 March 8, 2013 You know, for all of North Korea's bluster lately, they may well have a better trained military than Iraq, but I can't help but be reminded of the continuous and sometimes comical bluster of the infamous Bagdad Bob... Remember that guy? Kept on claiming Iraq would "crush" the US invasion with US tanks right outside his building? "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueblur 0 #44 March 8, 2013 Last I saw, they had somewhere north of a million soldiers...In every man's life he will be allotted one good woman and one good dog. That's all you get, so appreciate them while the time you have with them lasts. - RiggerLee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #45 March 8, 2013 A million man army will only last so long if you starve them. NK has little in the way of import partners if a war breaks out. Would depend greatly if China chipped in, but if not, they'd be out of resources pretty damned quick. They can barely hold it together in peace times.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 3 #46 March 8, 2013 QuoteA million man army will only last so long if you starve them. NK has little in the way of import partners if a war breaks out. Would depend greatly if China chipped in, but if not, they'd be out of resources pretty damned quick. They can barely hold it together in peace times. I think it likely that one of China's various regional strategic contingency plans is effecting essentially a coup d'etat in NK if NK takes things too near to a serious conflagration. I also presume that China has both placed and cultivated considerable covert human assets in NK toward this end. But in any event, NK engaging in serious warfare would be very destabilizing to China strategically and economically, just as China's development is showing some major success, and its international economic engine is really cranking up in earnest. The China of today is parsecs removed from the China of 1951, or even the China of the 1970s. I do not see China willing to get sucked-into using its own military against NK's enemies in a war that NK starts - or for that matter, tolerating NK starting a war in any event, even if China sits it out. Thus, means and methods aside (i.e., whether it be via coup or more conventional military means), I just don't see China sitting back and allowing NK to do that. (But wait! On the other hand, it would make a great novel, or conspiracy theory, if China was secretly either colluding with NK or deliberately trying to orchestrate NK going over the edge so that China can step in as the international savior and effectively leapfrog itself to world domination. Hmm, I'll have to get to work on that.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #47 March 8, 2013 QuoteA million man army will only last so long if you starve them. NK has little in the way of import partners if a war breaks out. Would depend greatly if China chipped in, but if not, they'd be out of resources pretty damned quick. They can barely hold it together in peace times. Agreed. However, as secretive as this regime is, it's hard to gauge the psyche of the average NK soldier. Will they roll over like Saddam's army, or will they fight to the death like WWII Japanese soldiers?"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #48 March 8, 2013 QuoteQuoteA million man army will only last so long if you starve them. NK has little in the way of import partners if a war breaks out. Would depend greatly if China chipped in, but if not, they'd be out of resources pretty damned quick. They can barely hold it together in peace times. I think it likely that one of China's various regional strategic contingency plans is effecting essentially a coup d'etat in NK if NK takes things too near to a serious conflagration. I also presume that China has both placed and cultivated considerable covert human assets in NK toward this end. But in any event, NK engaging in serious warfare would be very destabilizing to China strategically and economically, just as China's development is showing some major success, and its international economic engine is really cranking up in earnest. The China of today is parsecs removed from the China of 1951, or even the China of the 1970s. I do not see China willing to get sucked-into using its own military against NK's enemies in a war that NK starts - or for that matter, tolerating NK starting a war in any event, even if China sits it out. Thus, means and methods aside (i.e., whether it be via coup or more conventional military means), I just don't see China sitting back and allowing NK to do that. (But wait! On the other hand, it would make a great novel, or conspiracy theory, if China was secretly either colluding with NK or deliberately trying to orchestrate NK going over the edge so that China can step in as the international savior and effectively leapfrog itself to world domination. Hmm, I'll have to get to work on that.) Didn't China have a major role in helping North Korea (well there wasn't a north and south Korea at the time) fight the US during the Korean War?"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #49 March 8, 2013 We used to be at war with Japan and Germany too. Times change.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 3 #50 March 8, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteA million man army will only last so long if you starve them. NK has little in the way of import partners if a war breaks out. Would depend greatly if China chipped in, but if not, they'd be out of resources pretty damned quick. They can barely hold it together in peace times. I think it likely that one of China's various regional strategic contingency plans is effecting essentially a coup d'etat in NK if NK takes things too near to a serious conflagration. I also presume that China has both placed and cultivated considerable covert human assets in NK toward this end. But in any event, NK engaging in serious warfare would be very destabilizing to China strategically and economically, just as China's development is showing some major success, and its international economic engine is really cranking up in earnest. The China of today is parsecs removed from the China of 1951, or even the China of the 1970s. I do not see China willing to get sucked-into using its own military against NK's enemies in a war that NK starts - or for that matter, tolerating NK starting a war in any event, even if China sits it out. Thus, means and methods aside (i.e., whether it be via coup or more conventional military means), I just don't see China sitting back and allowing NK to do that. (But wait! On the other hand, it would make a great novel, or conspiracy theory, if China was secretly either colluding with NK or deliberately trying to orchestrate NK going over the edge so that China can step in as the international savior and effectively leapfrog itself to world domination. Hmm, I'll have to get to work on that.) Didn't China have a major role in helping North Korea (well there wasn't a north and south Korea at the time) fight the US during the Korean War? Yes; that was the China of 1951, which I mentioned. And I'm pretty sure Korea was already formally divided by then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
