rehmwa 2
Quotemass shootings"
In 2012 18 out of about 240,000,000 adults committed one, which is 1 in 13 million
so stating the question clearly -
What rights and dignities are we willing to take away from 13 million people for every 1 violent loonie that we hope, maybe, we can predict?
Still a serious question. It's quantifying the question, not minimizing the seriousness.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
skypuppy 1
QuoteDo you think the many mass shootings by mentally ill people that we've seen in recent years are a problem or not?
If not, why not?
If so, what do YOU think can be done to ameliorate the problem? (Note that I'm not asking for a guarantee for it to be eliminated altogether)?
Basically I agree that the FEW mass shootings we have by mentally ill people are a problem while keeping in mind, like Drew said, there were only 18 out of the adult population of the US that did such in 2012. I don't even know if all 18 of those were done by mentally ill people, or were consequences in some cases of other motives.
I also believe the system would have worked better in many cases if the people who did know shooters had acted on concerns they had sooner (Lanza's mom, for one, the psychiatrist in aurora for another). If they HAD reported concerns to the authorities it is quite possible that actions might have been taken to resolve the situations before the shootings. So I guess the main solution I would have is education of the public to keep a better eye out on their close family or friends for abnormal behavior, and report anything alarming when/if they see it.
I think by far the majority of homicides are carried out by criminals because that is the world they live in, and that will continue despite increased gun control.
Therefore I don't see mass shootings by the mentally ill as as big a problem as you seem to. It would be nice to have an easy solution, but there isn't one. And taking away the rights of many in order to target the rights of a few (while not even enforcing other laws that may already prohibit these few from having guns) is not acceptable.
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone
kallend 2,146
Quote[Reply]Do you, counselor, think the many mass shootings by mentally ill people that we've seen in recent years are a problem or not?
Yes.
[Reply]what do YOU think can be done to ameliorate the problem?
The sky's the limit. Summary executions of people accused of possessing a weapon in the home. Forced mental health evaluations and imprisonment of all who refuse to be tested or who fail the test. Lobotomies. Armed action against all citizens with suspension of posse comitatus. You name it!
All of which are patently Unconstitutional. Just like ignoring the right to privacy. Just like forced custodial hospitalization.
As I've said many times before I don't have a solution to it. Our Constitution prevents the sort of draconian evil shit that would be necessary to stop it.
I very deliberately and clearly didn't ask to STOP IT.
Your intellectual DISHONESTY in clipping my statement: "(Note that I'm not asking for a guarantee for it to be eliminated altogether)" is quite apparent.
Quit the weaseling and come up with one idea of your own.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,146
QuoteQuoteDo you, counselor, think the many mass shootings by mentally ill people that we've seen in recent years are a problem or not?
No.
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It's a non-issue not worth addressing.
I wonder if you would say that face to face to the parents of the kids murdered at Newtown.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Okay. I have no idea how the hell to do it.
Come up withj an idea of your own that is Constitutional. I have no idea how to Constitutionally turn the 1 in 10 or 20 million risk into something that is closer to 1 in 100 million risk.
I don't. I've had a long history of saying I don't know how to do it without amending the Constitution. Don't like my answer?
My wife is hotter than your wife.
Come up withj an idea of your own that is Constitutional. I have no idea how to Constitutionally turn the 1 in 10 or 20 million risk into something that is closer to 1 in 100 million risk.
I don't. I've had a long history of saying I don't know how to do it without amending the Constitution. Don't like my answer?
My wife is hotter than your wife.
rushmc 23
Don't like my answer?
Actually he demonstrates a dislike of the Constitution
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 2,146
QuoteOkay. I have no idea how the hell to do it.
Come up withj an idea of your own that is Constitutional. I have no idea how to Constitutionally turn the 1 in 10 or 20 million risk into something that is closer to 1 in 100 million risk.
I don't. I've had a long history of saying I don't know how to do it without amending the Constitution. Don't like my answer?
Unnecessary. Reasonable exceptions are already considered acceptable by the Supremes. For example, you don't have the right to lie under oath regardless of what the 1st Amendment says about free speech. You aren't allowed to practice cannibalism even if your religion requires it.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteReasonable exceptions are already considered acceptable by the Supremes
And yet the Supremes voted 8-0 that a mentally ill person cannot be held in custody unless there is an immediate threat to the safety of that person or someone else.
Quote"A finding of 'mental illness' alone cannot justify a State's locking a person up against his will and keeping him indefinitely in simple custodial confinement… In short, a state cannot constitutionally confine without more a nondangerous individual who is capable of surviving safely in freedom by himself or with the help of willing and responsible family members or friends."
That was from 1974. A unanimous decision. The Donaldson case. The reason why Reagan HAD to release all the mentally ill from institutions.
I am arguing that there are damned few – if any – “reasonable exceptions” that can apply to the “mentally ill.” Fundamentally, for the purposes of Constitutional law, the “mentally ill” are viewed as equals to the sane. Again, I’d suggest you take a look at the jurisprudence surrounding it.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
dmcoco84 5
QuoteFor example, you don't have the right to lie under oath regardless of what the 1st Amendment says about free speech.
That is not an exemption to the 1st Amendment.
Publius would laugh at you for saying that.
dmcoco84 5
OMG... that is such a stupid comment.
Shaking Head
Shaking Head
So let's apply "reasonable exceptions" in a broader stance. Jumping out of an aircraft in flight COULD result in serious injury or death. Why not ban that. Flying high performance canopies can result in serious injury or death. Why not ban them.
If it saves just one life isn't it worth it?
If it saves just one life isn't it worth it?
Muff #5048
champu 1
QuoteSo let's apply "reasonable exceptions" in a broader stance. Jumping out of an aircraft in flight COULD result in serious injury or death. Why not ban that.
No one is proposing banning all skydives, just tandems. Nobody needs tandems, we have static line jumps.
kallend 2,146
And another nutter with a gun. I hope you feel good protecting these people.
abcnews.go.com/US/conn-grandmother-killed-kids-sick/story?id=18608766
(What about the kids' rights to not be shot dead? Or don't they count?)
abcnews.go.com/US/conn-grandmother-killed-kids-sick/story?id=18608766
(What about the kids' rights to not be shot dead? Or don't they count?)
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 23
Quote
And another nutter with a gun. I hope you feel good protecting these people.
abcnews.go.com/US/conn-grandmother-killed-kids-sick/story?id=18608766
(What about the kids' rights to not be shot dead? Or don't they count?)
It will be interesting to see if you have to eat your stawman
And the kids have every bit as much right to live as they would to own a gun
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
billvon 3,107
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>And the kids have every bit as much right to live as they would to own a gun
Actually they have more of a right to live. (Which makes sense.)
Actually they have more of a right to live. (Which makes sense.)
rushmc 23
Quote>And the kids have every bit as much right to live as they would to own a gun
Actually they have more of a right to live. (Which makes sense.)
Of course
But they are still both rights
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 2,146
QuoteQuote
And another nutter with a gun. I hope you feel good protecting these people.
abcnews.go.com/US/conn-grandmother-killed-kids-sick/story?id=18608766
(What about the kids' rights to not be shot dead? Or don't they count?)
It will be interesting to see if you have to eat your stawman
And the kids have every bit as much right to live as they would to own a gun
So you need a dictionary too.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuote
And another nutter with a gun. I hope you feel good protecting these people.
abcnews.go.com/US/conn-grandmother-killed-kids-sick/story?id=18608766
(What about the kids' rights to not be shot dead? Or don't they count?)
It will be interesting to see if you have to eat your stawman
And the kids have every bit as much right to live as they would to own a gun
So you need a dictionary too.
Really
So you dont think that saying we want loonies to get guns is a strawman?
That is interesting
I guess I figured you was smart enough to know that we dont
Anyway
My bad
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 2,146
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
And another nutter with a gun. I hope you feel good protecting these people.
abcnews.go.com/US/conn-grandmother-killed-kids-sick/story?id=18608766
(What about the kids' rights to not be shot dead? Or don't they count?)
It will be interesting to see if you have to eat your stawman
And the kids have every bit as much right to live as they would to own a gun
So you need a dictionary too.
Really
So you dont think that saying we want loonies to get guns is a strawman?
That is interesting
I guess I figured you was smart enough to know that we dont
Anyway
My bad
Comprehension problem back again, I see.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Quote
And another nutter with a gun. I hope you feel good protecting these people.
abcnews.go.com/US/conn-grandmother-killed-kids-sick/story?id=18608766
(What about the kids' rights to not be shot dead? Or don't they count?)
So, what would you have done to prevent it? Here's a specific case and tell me what policies you would have had in place to prevent it. She didn't have a criminal record, for example.
Maybe it's the tax lien on her house. I propose eliminating those.
Maybe you can recommend imprisonment for the kids' parents for not reporting Nana's mental health issues so she could be imprisoned in perpetuity.
Have you got any solution, John, that wouldn't fuck over millions of people? Treat all people as guilty. George Bush would be sure to tell us that the safety of the American people require it.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
OHCHUTE 0
If the feds institute background checks for private sales, it must include mental health and prior arrest records for violence information. If not, any background check would be a failure.
No.
There haven't been "many mass shootings"
In 2012 18 out of about 240,000,000 adults committed one, which is 1 in 13 million or 0.0000075%.
They killed 88 out of 315,000,000 people is 0.000028%.
Those numbers are orders of magnitude less severe than other things we don't consider to be problems.
It's a non-issue not worth addressing.
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