wmw999 2,589 #26 February 14, 2013 How did they hand pick him? The approached the NYT about the story, but as far as I can tell from it, they didn't select the author. BTW, Broder has responded to the Tesla rebuttal, but I can't bring it up for some reason -- IE barfs when I try to link to it. I'd be interested in seeing his response. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #27 February 14, 2013 QuoteLet the venture capitalists, scientists, and tinkerers work on it for a few more years. When it is ready, then roll it out. Just ask Boeing how those lithium ion battery are working on their Dreamliner There is quite a difference between design flaws or inadaquate FMEAs and immature technology. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #28 February 14, 2013 QuoteQuoteTesla's response. http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive If they can back up what they say with the telemetry/gps tracks... this journo might have a few problems in the near future. Is this journalist Brent's twin brother, by any chance? More like ACE CUB REPORTER Jimmy Olsentwins, who made a fool of so many Sen. Feinstein haters just this week.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #29 February 14, 2013 QuoteQuoteTesla's response. http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive If they can back up what they say with the telemetry/gps tracks... this journo might have a few problems in the near future.Is this journalist Brent's twin brother, by any chance? I'll be curious to see if there are any adverse consequences to this "journalist" for outright lying, essentially making a story up. I know what should happen if he worked for an employer who actually valued their reputation. So, brenthutch, what do you think would happen if I continued to drive my gas-powered car when the gas gauge showed empty, driving past gas stations even as warning lights are blinking and alarms are sounding? The Tesla continued for 19 miles after the point where the gauge showed no power remaining. If I continued to drive a car on empty, driving past gas stations on the way, until it finally ran out, would that constitute proof that gas engines are an experimental technology, not ready for prime time? Will you now advocate that we have to go back to horses as the best proven technology? But, what happens if we don't feed the horse? Maybe we all have to walk in brenthutch's world. At least that would be good for global warming, not to mention the obesity epidemic. Brenthutch, do you think it might be relevant that in an article last year Mr. Broder (the "journalist" who did the "test drive") wrote: "Yet the state of the electric car is dismal, the victim of hyped expectations, technological flops, high costs and a hostile political climate.” Sounds like Mr Broder is a high priest of your live-in-the-past religion, and you swallowed his shit load lock stock and barrel. What does it say about the veracity of your ludditist views that time and again you have to turn to fabricated "evidence" for support? Don ------------------------------------------------ "Musk’s post uses a common rhetorical tactic: overwhelming the audience with small refutations of unimportant points to give an impression of overall victory. The Atlantic Wire has a graph-by-graph breakdown of how strong and important each point is to Musk’s case; on the whole, they aren’t that important." http://grist.org/news/tesla-offers-incomplete-misdirected-response-to-new-york-times-critique/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #30 February 14, 2013 Quote They seem to have buried the reporter with facts. Good thing they have recording devices in the vehicle. Hope they aren't in all their vehicles. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #31 February 15, 2013 Quote Quote They seem to have buried the reporter with facts. Good thing they have recording devices in the vehicle. Hope they aren't in all their vehicles. Nope - as in the article, just press cars, after Top Gear did the nasty on themNever try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #32 February 15, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteTesla's response. http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive If they can back up what they say with the telemetry/gps tracks... this journo might have a few problems in the near future. Is this journalist Brent's twin brother, by any chance? More like ACE CUB REPORTER Jimmy Olsentwins, who made a fool of so many Sen. Feinstein haters just this week. Let me know where to send the check to the "Let us help fix Kallend's big brain" fund. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #33 February 15, 2013 QuoteQuoteTesla's response. http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive If they can back up what they say with the telemetry/gps tracks... this journo might have a few problems in the near future.Is this journalist Brent's twin brother, by any chance? I'll be curious to see if there are any adverse consequences to this "journalist" for outright lying, essentially making a story up. I know what should happen if he worked for an employer who actually valued their reputation. So, brenthutch, what do you think would happen if I continued to drive my gas-powered car when the gas gauge showed empty, driving past gas stations even as warning lights are blinking and alarms are sounding? The Tesla continued for 19 miles after the point where the gauge showed no power remaining. If I continued to drive a car on empty, driving past gas stations on the way, until it finally ran out, would that constitute proof that gas engines are an experimental technology, not ready for prime time? Will you now advocate that we have to go back to horses as the best proven technology? But, what happens if we don't feed the horse? Maybe we all have to walk in brenthutch's world. At least that would be good for global warming, not to mention the obesity epidemic. Brenthutch, do you think it might be relevant that in an article last year Mr. Broder (the "journalist" who did the "test drive") wrote: "Yet the state of the electric car is dismal, the victim of hyped expectations, technological flops, high costs and a hostile political climate.” Sounds like Mr Broder is a high priest of your live-in-the-past religion, and you swallowed his shit load lock stock and barrel. What does it say about the veracity of your ludditist views that time and again you have to turn to fabricated "evidence" for support? Don ----------------------------------- http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/that-tesla-data-what-it-says-and-what-it-doesnt/ boosh! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #34 February 15, 2013 >It would be more akin to Ford rolling out its new Mustang to an adoring motoring >press, showing off its power by flying threw the quarter mile in 25 seconds, and >finishing its blast around the track on the back of a flatbed with a broken stereo. More like a GM reviewer driving a Mustang until it ran out of gas, then writing an article claiming that the engine failed after only 300 miles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #35 February 15, 2013 As Paul Harvey used to say: "And now for the rest of the story" http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/that-tesla-data-what-it-says-and-what-it-doesnt/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #36 February 15, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteTesla's response. http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive If they can back up what they say with the telemetry/gps tracks... this journo might have a few problems in the near future. Is this journalist Brent's twin brother, by any chance? More like ACE CUB REPORTER Jimmy Olsentwins, who made a fool of so many Sen. Feinstein haters just this week. Let me know where to send the check to the "Let us help fix Kallend's big brain" fund. So you were taken in by the Ace Cub Reporter. Did you know "gullible" rhymes with "orange" if you say it slowly?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 380 #37 February 15, 2013 So, he charged it just enough to theoretically make it to the next station, based on a hypothetical range assuming ideal driving conditions that never exist in the real world, left himself no reserve whatsoever, took no trouble to acquaint himself with the location of charging stations beforehand, and then he is shocked (so to speak) when he runs out of energy a few miles short. Also, as a journalist his job is to get details correct. His story contains many inaccuracies and discrepancies with the telemetry data, curiously enough all slanted in a direction to make the Tesla look bad. If I were to publish a research paper with so many inaccuracies, I would be forced to publish a retraction, and I would likely be barred from receiving research grants. Here is an account from a different reporter who made the same trip, and encountered none of the problems allegedly experienced by Mr. Broder. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #38 February 15, 2013 QuoteAs Paul Harvey used to say: "And now for the rest of the story" http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/that-tesla-data-what-it-says-and-what-it-doesnt/ So he's confirming that he's a twit. Nice of you to post that.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #39 February 16, 2013 >"And now for the rest of the story" Translation: "oh shit oh shit they have the data from my drive . . . . I better make some excuses up fast if I want to keep my job." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #40 February 16, 2013 http://nlpc.org/stories/2013/02/04/analyzing-gm%E2%80%99s-weak-start-2013-chevy-volt-sales "The numbers are in, and GM can proudly say that they are the market leader in an insignificant field with a paltry 1,140 Volts sold in January. The best selling passenger car on the road, the Toyota Camry, sold 31,897 during the month, giving an indication of how illogical GM's misguided focus has been..... A recent Congressional Budget Office report revealed that the money is not well spent and that taxpayers will pay about $7.5 billion on EV subsidies over the next few years for little benefit. Critics of the Volt would not really care about the dismal sales if taxpayers were not paying for the folly. If a private sector company foolishly follows a money-losing strategy for ideological reasons, that's their choice. But the Volt was and is funded with taxpayer money. Further, most financing comes from taxpayer-owned Ally Financial, which the Obama Administration has refused to exit while GM is reliant upon the funding. " I predict the volt will be canceled by the end of the year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #41 February 16, 2013 >The numbers are in, and GM can proudly say that they are the market leader in an >insignificant field with a paltry 1,140 Volts sold in January. The best selling passenger >car on the road, the Toyota Camry, sold 31,897 during the month, giving an indication >of how illogical GM's misguided focus has been The author sounds like you! =================== Chevy Volt sales triple in 2012 NEW YORK (CNNMoney) Chevy Volt sales are cranking up. General Motors sold three times as many Chevrolet Volts in 2012 as it did in 2011, which was the car's first full year on the market. GM sold 23,461 Volts in 2012 compared with just 7,671 in 2011. While it's an impressive jump, the Volt is still one of Chevy's lowest-selling cars. However, the Volt greatly outdid the Corvette, for instance, of which only 14,000 were sold last year. =================== So it's a better seller than the Corvette and sales are growing at 300% a year. Oh, and it has the highest customer satisfaction rating of ANY car in 2012. Yep, that's sure some "illogical misguided focus." >I predict the volt will be canceled by the end of the year. IIRC you predicted the same thing about hybrids. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #42 February 16, 2013 Quotehttp://nlpc.org/stories/2013/02/04/analyzing-gm%E2%80%99s-weak-start-2013-chevy-volt-sales "The numbers are in, and GM can proudly say that they are the market leader in an insignificant field with a paltry 1,140 Volts sold in January. The best selling passenger car on the road, the Toyota Camry, sold 31,897 during the month, giving an indication of how illogical GM's misguided focus has been..... A recent Congressional Budget Office report revealed that the money is not well spent and that taxpayers will pay about $7.5 billion on EV subsidies over the next few years for little benefit. Oil companies get about $2.4 Billion every year in corporate welfare. The GOP blocked the attempt to reduce it. The US coal industry gets $hundreds of millions in corporate welfare every year.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #43 February 16, 2013 So it's a better seller than the Corvette and sales are growing at 300% a year. --------------------------- It outsold a Bugatti Veyron as well.. Or down 42% a month Dec. 2633 Jan 1140 Looks like everyone that wants a Volt, has one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #44 February 16, 2013 We receive a benefit, via cheaper gas, and electricity. Exon mobile paid more in taxes last year, than every electric car manufacturer, solar panel company, wind turbine manufacturer, bio-fuel refiner, and battery company COMBINED. Remove, standard deductions, and the cost will be passed on to the consumer, (very regressive) "ExxonMobil ( XOM - news - people ), Chevron ( CVX - news - people ) and ConocoPhillips ( COP - news - people ), all endure income tax burdens of more than 40%--higher than the statutory U.S. rate of 35%. Exxon, with a 45% rate, tallied $21.6 billion in worldwide income taxes for 2010." http://www.forbes.com/2011/04/13/ge-exxon-walmart-apple-business-washington-corporate-taxes.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #45 February 17, 2013 > Exon mobile paid more in taxes last year, than every electric car manufacturer, solar >panel company, wind turbine manufacturer, bio-fuel refiner, and battery company >COMBINED. And they made more money than all of those combined. So it makes sense that they pay more in taxes. >"ExxonMobil ( XOM - news - people ), Chevron ( CVX - news - people ) and >ConocoPhillips ( COP - news - people ), all endure income tax burdens of more than >40%--higher than the statutory U.S. rate of 35%. Cool. They're paying back some of the damage they've done to the US. Good for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #46 February 17, 2013 Quote> Exon mobile paid more in taxes last year, than every electric car manufacturer, solar >panel company, wind turbine manufacturer, bio-fuel refiner, and battery company >COMBINED. And they made more money than all of those combined. So it makes sense that they pay more in taxes. >"ExxonMobil ( XOM - news - people ), Chevron ( CVX - news - people ) and >ConocoPhillips ( COP - news - people ), all endure income tax burdens of more than >40%--higher than the statutory U.S. rate of 35%. Cool. They're paying back some of the damage they've done to the US. Good for them. Nope, they are raising the price of gas, in case you haven't noticed, so the taxpayers bear the burden. Amazing how few realize that corprporate taxes are just passed on to the taxpayers in higher prices. But, if it makes you feel good to think you aren't the one being fleeced, then go right ahead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #47 February 17, 2013 >Nope, they are raising the price of gas, in case you haven't noticed, so the >taxpayers bear the burden. Hmm. I pay taxes. Gas prices aren't really a burden to me. >But, if it makes you feel good to think you aren't the one being fleeced, then go right >ahead. I'm not; I don't buy gas much lately. But feel free to allow yourself to be fleeced as hard as the gas companies want to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #48 February 17, 2013 Quote>Nope, they are raising the price of gas, in case you haven't noticed, so the >taxpayers bear the burden. Hmm. I pay taxes. Gas prices aren't really a burden to me. >But, if it makes you feel good to think you aren't the one being fleeced, then go right >ahead. I'm not; I don't buy gas much lately. But feel free to allow yourself to be fleeced as hard as the gas companies want to. Nice attempt at misdirection. Was it Exxon Mobile out there driving those cars that damaged the environment? Hmmm....? More twisted liberal-think. Always looking for a boogie-man to blame. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #49 February 17, 2013 Quote Was it Exxon Mobile out there driving those cars that damaged the environment? Hmmm....? It was Exxon that did this and this. It's not "twisted liberal-think" to suggest they pay for the damage they've done -- it's common sense. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #50 February 17, 2013 QuoteQuote Was it Exxon Mobile out there driving those cars that damaged the environment? Hmmm....? It was Exxon that did this and this. It's not "twisted liberal-think" to suggest they pay for the damage they've done -- it's common sense. When you get rid of all your gas powered vehicles, let me know. Them you will have a right to complain. Until then, you are just as complicit as EOM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
