Ex-LAPD cop Chris Dorner's manifesto

[kallend 2,151]

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After reading his long and rambling manifesto in which he seemingly left nothing unsaid, one thing is certain. When he is found, he will be dead. The uncertainty will be how high his body count will get.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Cop-Revenge-Shooter-Named-Names-in-Manifesto-blamed-Asians-Hispanics-and-Lesbians-190218051.html

This guy is a far left nut (not relating him to left leaning people because he is a nut, Period)

If he was a right leaning nut, it would be all over the news like when Palin got blamed for the Giffords shooting

It IS all over the news.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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After reading his long and rambling manifesto in which he seemingly left nothing unsaid, one thing is certain. When he is found, he will be dead. The uncertainty will be how high his body count will get.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Cop-Revenge-Shooter-Named-Names-in-Manifesto-blamed-Asians-Hispanics-and-Lesbians-190218051.html

This guy is a far left nut (not relating him to left leaning people because he is a nut, Period)

If he was a right leaning nut, it would be all over the news like when Palin got blamed for the Giffords shooting

It IS all over the news.

WHOOSH

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

Several things I see about this:
(1) The guy is very intelligent;
(2) The guy’s life was destroyed;
(3) The guy thinks he has nothing left to lose;
(4) The guy is not insane;
(5) The guy put in his memory file all wrongs that occurred to him;
(6) The guy started this manifesto as his gripes and then ended it with his goodbyes.

I have no doubt that there is a great deal of truth involved in his factual recitations. I have little doubt that nobody who knew him saw anything like this coming. Unfortunately, I think there is something to be said that this guy was chewed up and spit out because he wouldn’t go along with what he saw were injustices. He wasn’t a bad guy.

The worst thing that can ever happen is to leave a person with the feeling that there is nothing left to lose. Understandably, his firing resulted in his loss of security clearance. That meant his loss of job. And once he completed his last day in the Navy, his life was over to him. He finished out his service (I suspect an honorable discharge was particularly important to him).

I am in zero way excusing his actions. I find them appalling. I see from his writing that he himself finds his actions appalling. I think that he certainly is viewing himself as a martyr – persecuted for demonstrating integrity and suffering because of his integrity. And now? He’s going to die to result. I believe, however, that he has miscalculated the response from the public – he won’t receive accolades from the public but will be historically scorned.

Is this guy an issue for mental health care? He admitted to years of suffering from depression. He admitted that. I don’t know if he was treated but I’d suspect he wasn’t.

Note: he’s kinda being validated somewhat by the itchy-trigger-finger cops who on two occasions shot at trucks matching the description – taking out a couple of women delivering newspapers.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[BillyVance 35]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Remster 30]

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Seriously???

That's why I hate SC. Even when you want to have some what sensible discussions, some people are THAT far out...

Remster

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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Several things I see about this:
(1) The guy is very intelligent;
(2) The guy’s life was destroyed;
(3) The guy thinks he has nothing left to lose;
(4) The guy is not insane;
(5) The guy put in his memory file all wrongs that occurred to him;
(6) The guy started this manifesto as his gripes and then ended it with his goodbyes.

I have no doubt that there is a great deal of truth involved in his factual recitations. I have little doubt that nobody who knew him saw anything like this coming. Unfortunately, I think there is something to be said that this guy was chewed up and spit out because he wouldn’t go along with what he saw were injustices. He wasn’t a bad guy.

The worst thing that can ever happen is to leave a person with the feeling that there is nothing left to lose. Understandably, his firing resulted in his loss of security clearance. That meant his loss of job. And once he completed his last day in the Navy, his life was over to him. He finished out his service (I suspect an honorable discharge was particularly important to him).

I am in zero way excusing his actions. I find them appalling. I see from his writing that he himself finds his actions appalling. I think that he certainly is viewing himself as a martyr – persecuted for demonstrating integrity and suffering because of his integrity. And now? He’s going to die to result. I believe, however, that he has miscalculated the response from the public – he won’t receive accolades from the public but will be historically scorned.

Is this guy an issue for mental health care? He admitted to years of suffering from depression. He admitted that. I don’t know if he was treated but I’d suspect he wasn’t.

Note: he’s kinda being validated somewhat by the itchy-trigger-finger cops who on two occasions shot at trucks matching the description – taking out a couple of women delivering newspapers.

I agree he's not insane. He's a bit off, but in "control of his faculties."

I tend to believe his accusations of the LAPD. I know a bit about cops, and a little (indirectly) about the LAPD. The behavior and coverups are pretty predicable behavior. His accusations of abuse of suspects is pretty common, especially with the LAPD.
I think he's a little overboard about guys picking minority districts in order to get a chance to shoot people, but that's only a small part of his tirade.

His opinion on the availability of Class 3 stuff and the ease of creating a trust is way off, he might have a different opinion if he wasn't police/military. Civilians have a much more difficult time with it.

He's clearly reached the point where he simply no longer gives a shit.
He feels he's been pushed and pushed and he's "mad as hell and he's not going to take it anymore."

I certainly don't condone his actions, but I do sympathize with him to a certain degree.

And I saw the Sheriff in Big Bear doing a news conference this afternoon. God was that ridiculous. The Sheriff was very good, but some of the questions were out of left field.
There was a light snowfall and a reporter asked "How will you be able to track him in this snow?"

The Sheriff replied "Snow is GREAT for tracking! And it helps us know if a cabin has been disturbed."

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[BillyVance 35]

I know I'm curious to see if Dorner decided long ago that he was going to do this. He was fired from the LAPD in 2008. Without checking the story, I can't say when he reached that point where he goes "Fuck this shit". But, its been 5 years. That's more than enough time to plan his thing, buy up arms and ammo, set up secret hide-outs, etc.

Look at Eric Rudolph, the Atlanta Olympic and abortion clinic bomber. He disappeared for months, living in a makeshift underground hut in the North Carolina mountains.

I don't foresee Dorner being on the lam that long, because he's got people he wants to kill, and most of them are now under police protection, but is he prepared to hold out for months in hiding without being found? Most likely.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[quade 4]

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(4) The guy is not insane;

How do you figure? Do sane people go on murder revenge killing sprees?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[aphid 0]

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... shot at trucks matching the description – taking out a couple of women delivering newspapers.

Are they unable to determine the difference between the suspect dark blue Nissan Titan, a light blue Toyota Tacoma and a black Honda Ridgeline? At the very least, would the license plates be different?

Are there many elderly Latino ladies that appear similar to shaved black males weighing an estimated 215 lbs?

[ManagingPrime 0]

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(4) The guy is not insane;

How do you figure? Do sane people go on murder revenge killing sprees?

If murder revenge killing sprees are the qualifier for insanity then we may need to take a closer look at some state violence.

To the point. Legally, I don't think he would be deemed insane, which generally is viewed as "a mental illness where a person cannot distinguish reality from fantasy, cannot manage their own affairs and is subject to uncontrollable or impulsive behavior."

It seems he is using reason and rationality and that his behavior is calculated not impulsive.

[quade 4]

Ah, so you believe he's not able to use the "not guilty by reason of insanity" defense. Yes, I believe you're correct. He's still not sane.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ManagingPrime 0]

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Ah, so you believe he's not able to use the "not guilty by reason of insanity" defense. Yes, I believe you're correct. He's still not sane.

The legal definition is really all there is to stand on. Sane vs Insane is simply to subjective out of the legal context. How many times have you been told you are insane for jumping out of planes? To some people, it's not just a saying, they think you actually have a disturbed mind for jumping out of planes.

I don't think he's going to be able to use any defense in court....he's a dead man walking, it's just a matter of when and how many more people he kills before he is "terminated".

[lawrocket 3]

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His opinion on the availability of Class 3 stuff and the ease of creating a trust is way off, he might have a different opinion if he wasn't police/military. Civilians have a much more difficult time with it.

Which is kind of the point. Here’s a guy that by all arguments should be the only type trusted with these weapons. And look at what he’s doing. A former cop/Navy officer out to kill cops and their families. Meanwhile, the cops are out there with itchy trigger fingers popping anything remotely suspicious, including unarmed innocent civilian women delivering newspapers.

Seems like weapons bans should apply most to police from these escapades.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[toolbox 0]

Are you saying that a person can't be sane if they kill someone outside of self defense?
That would mean all gangbangers,robbers,terrorist,ect,are not sane.
Islamic terrorist kill because they are waging war against what they percieve to be enemies of islam.
Gangbangers kill for money,respect,territory,ect.
Armed robbers will kill to get what they want and are motivated by monetary gain.
I would say most of these afore mentioned types of people are sane.
Just because you do some evil shit does not mean you can't be sane.
This guy is on a vendetta that is directed toward all those who represent,or support those, who he feels have done injustices toward himself and others.

[lawrocket 3]

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(4) The guy is not insane;

How do you figure? Do sane people go on murder revenge killing sprees?

Paul:

It’s been frequently suggested that you put some effort at educating yourself with regard to: (1) mental illness; (2) criminal behavior/sociopathy; and (3) law.

The guy’s manifesto proves it: he knows that what he is doing is wrong and he is doing it anyway to prove a point. There aren’t voices in his head. There isn’t instability. No drug use. Alcoholism. Honorable discharge from the Navy last week. Nobody saw this coming.

He planned it. He’s been planning for years. His writing is cogent. Venting but cogent. He explains his feelings and his gripes. He explains how his life was ruined. He explains that his life is over.

These aren’t the disjointed rantings of a lunatic. They are the written feelings, thoughts and subjective justifications of an iron-willed man who made a plan and worked the plan. He provided warnings to the police that he knows their techniques and he has set up countermeasures to deal with them. His thought processes are logical. And they also reflect a great deal of knowledge on his part. The guy’s setting out to be Rambo – all that’s needed is Col. Troutman out there to say, “I built him.”

You think murder is a matter of “insane?” Or a spree murderer insane? Yes, Paul, SANE people go on killing sprees. Sane people kill. Sane people do bad shit. They are usually called “sociopaths.” Ted Bundy? Insane? Nope. Sane and knew just what he was doing. Only he liked it. That doesn’t mean insane.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[BillyVance 35]

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... shot at trucks matching the description – taking out a couple of women delivering newspapers.

Are they unable to determine the difference between the suspect dark blue Nissan Titan, a light blue Toyota Tacoma and a black Honda Ridgeline? At the very least, would the license plates be different?

Are there many elderly Latino ladies that appear similar to shaved black males weighing an estimated 215 lbs?

Worse, he's 6' tall and 275 lbs and built like a NFL defensive lineman

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[quade 4]

Oh please. Get off your gigantic pedantic lawyery high horse.

Words can have both a strictly legal meaning and a common usage meaning. While this guy might not reach the legal definition, he absolutely reaches the common definition of insane.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skypuppy 1]

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(4) The guy is not insane;

How do you figure? Do sane people go on murder revenge killing sprees?

Paul:

It’s been frequently suggested that you put some effort at educating yourself with regard to: (1) mental illness; (2) criminal behavior/sociopathy; and (3) law.

The guy’s manifesto proves it: he knows that what he is doing is wrong and he is doing it anyway to prove a point. There aren’t voices in his head. There isn’t instability. No drug use. Alcoholism. Honorable discharge from the Navy last week. Nobody saw this coming.

He planned it. He’s been planning for years. His writing is cogent. Venting but cogent. He explains his feelings and his gripes. He explains how his life was ruined. He explains that his life is over.

These aren’t the disjointed rantings of a lunatic. They are the written feelings, thoughts and subjective justifications of an iron-willed man who made a plan and worked the plan. He provided warnings to the police that he knows their techniques and he has set up countermeasures to deal with them. His thought processes are logical. And they also reflect a great deal of knowledge on his part. The guy’s setting out to be Rambo – all that’s needed is Col. Troutman out there to say, “I built him.”

You think murder is a matter of “insane?” Or a spree murderer insane? Yes, Paul, SANE people go on killing sprees. Sane people kill. Sane people do bad shit. They are usually called “sociopaths.” Ted Bundy? Insane? Nope. Sane and knew just what he was doing. Only he liked it. That doesn’t mean insane.

come on, man, you know quade better than that. Anyone that doesn't think the way he thinks is, as far as he's concerned, 'insane'. And that includes you and me...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[sfzombie 3]

had i not have read your posts for years i would think that you cannot mean this shit you're spouting. the only thing that stops most people from doing shit like this is fear. either of death, being hurt, going to prison, what would happen to their families, etc. or their conscience. this guy is the epitomy of sane. as to someone who would question the shit in his manifesto, of course a place where that much shit can happen, to one man, would go covering their tracks asap. and did you read the whole thing? scary. glad i'm not on his shitlist

http://kitswv.com

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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Oh please. Get off your gigantic pedantic lawyery high horse.

Words can have both a strictly legal meaning and a common usage meaning. While this guy might not reach the legal definition, he absolutely reaches the common definition of insane.

Ok, what do you mean by the "common definition of insane"?

Really.
What mental disease does he have?
In what way is he out of touch with reality?

I don't see him as insane. I see him as very, very angry.
He has reached the point where the consequnces of his actions are no longer a deterrent.
He seems to have decided his life is no longer worth living.
If he chose to commit suicide all alone, we wouldn't call him insane, would we? More likely sad, misguided, or something similar.
If he decided to commit "suicide by cop" (look it up if you don't know what I mean), we'd also say something like this.

He has simply decided to commit suicide by cop, in a very public way, and he's determined to take as many of the people who he believes drove him to this point as possible.
It's also known as a "death run." To go out in a "blaze of gunfire," taking as many of your opponents as possible, making as large of a spectacle and as loud of a statement as possible.

While I don't agree with his actions, nor do I condone them, I can certainly understand them.
As I said above, he's "Mad as hell and he's not going to take it anymore."
Or to quote a different movie - "I'm not crazy, I just don't give a fuck." (bonus points to anyone who knows it without looking it up).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[lawrocket 3]

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Oh please. Get off your gigantic pedantic lawyery high horse.

Words can have both a strictly legal meaning and a common usage meaning. While this guy might not reach the legal definition, he absolutely reaches the common definition of insane.

THe common definition of insane? How about the medical definition of insane.

Paul - skydivers meet the common definition of insane. The common understanding of mental health is like the common whuffo understanding of skydiving. That is, pretty much misperceived by anyone who doesn't have some involvement with it.

I'm npot talking pedantic. You are making the statement that for a person to be a killer that person must be insane. I'm saying that you are sorely mistaken. There is insane and there is evil. You mix the two. Your logic is, "killer ergo mentally ill." WHich mixes into "mentally ill ergo possible killer."

IT doesn't work that way. It's not a matter of you not being capable of understanding it. It's a matter of you not WANTING to understand that. It's rather interesting that you are at odds with the legal and mental health community on this issue. Even though a lawyer and a psychiatrist say "You don't quite have it right" and you continue to disagree I still support your right to carry arms.

You sound a lot like I did as a teenager. THose of us who work in the system get it. My wife who works in the system sees "too many people in prison who belong in a hospital" and "too many people in a hospital who belong in a prison."

Issue: does the person have a medical problem that can be treated? No. There is no treatment for being an asshole. There is treatment to calm the voices.

Not pedantic. Real fucking life. This isn't a Hollywood.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 2]

guy seems nuts to me.

[airtwardo 7]

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guy seems nuts to me.

Yeah he's nuts ~ But he's not crazy!

Nuts is killin' innocent people for what ever reason...voices in your head, phases of the moon, burnt fries at Mickey D's.

Crazy is hanging around the crime scene drawing stick figures on the wall with your poop & wondering why all the cops are showing up.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[lawrocket 3]

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guy seems nuts to me.

Why?

Because he's killing people? Please explain.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 2]

nah, just cruisin' thru. sunday. no time for a manifesto today.