Andy9o8 2
QuoteQuoteQuote
The Obama egg came first. Chicken Little is a result; not a cause.
That's just not true. The nra has been waging the modern version of its PR campaign ever since LBJ made a speech about Oswald having bought his rifle via mail order.
Even using your example, you don't understand cause and effect?
Even using your example, you don't understand cause and effect?
So, you are saying that Oswald's purchase was the driving factor for the response to LBJ's speech?
The purchase caused the reaction?
Nope.
The purchase alone would have gone it's merry way with no response. the speech is the driving factor.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Andy9o8 2
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
The Obama egg came first. Chicken Little is a result; not a cause.
That's just not true. The nra has been waging the modern version of its PR campaign ever since LBJ made a speech about Oswald having bought his rifle via mail order.
Even using your example, you don't understand cause and effect?
Even using your example, you don't understand cause and effect?
So, you are saying that Oswald's purchase was the driving factor for the response to LBJ's speech?
The purchase caused the reaction?
Nope.
The purchase alone would have gone it's merry way with no response. the speech is the driving factor.
And what do you suppose was the driving factor of the speech? Here's a hint.
QuoteQuoteQuoteAnd I must say I'm rather pissed about the amount of hysteria our administration has caused.
You mean the NRA.
That's what I was thinking.
How about a mixture? I remember when Quade was blaming the NRA for spreading fear during the time that nobody heard anything from them.
All responses are predictable.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
Quote
And what do you suppose was the driving factor of the speech?
Evidently you are assuming that the reaction was independent of the speech. The purchase generated the reaction. Nope.
What you have painted is this:
Purchase -> Speech -> Reaction = Purchase -> Reaction.
It doesn't make sense to say:
Purchase -> Reaction.
Do you honestly think the reaction would have happened like that had the speech not been made?
If you do, then so be it...there's no point in it.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Andy9o8 2
QuoteI remember when Quade was blaming the NRA for spreading fear during the time that nobody heard anything from them.
You're kidding, right? As I suggested above, the NRA's strategic plan has deftly employed the spreading of fear among gun owners for decades. For all intents and purposes, there's never been a time when nobody's heard anything from them.
Quote
How about a mixture? I remember when Quade was blaming the NRA for spreading fear during the time that nobody heard anything from them.
That's tough.
Gooberment hoarding ammo, gooberment planning the destruction of the 2nd, gooberment...gooberment...gooberment
Really, guys...who do you think has caused all the hysteria from either side? The NRA? Really? REALLY?
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Andy9o8 2
QuoteQuote
And what do you suppose was the driving factor of the speech?
Evidently you are assuming that the reaction was independent of the speech. The purchase generated the reaction. Nope.
What you have painted is this:
Purchase -> Speech -> Reaction = Purchase -> Reaction.
It doesn't make sense to say:
Purchase -> Reaction.
Do you honestly think the reaction would have happened like that had the speech not been made?
If you do, then so be it...there's no point in it.
LBJ's speech was made while signing the Gun Control Act of 1968 which prohibited purchasing guns & ammo via mail order. (Oswald, for example, bought his rifle via mail order under an alias, and in the absence of any kind of registration, thus circumventing the fact that he was on the FBI's watch list for living in the USSR & pro-Cuba activity.)
In the speech, LBJ also called for universal registration; and he made it clear that he was doing so partly IN RESPOSE to the gun lobby's even-then-existing activity:
QuoteSome of you may be interested in knowing-really-what this bill does: --It stops murder by mail order. It bars the interstate sale of all guns and the bullets that load them.
--It stops the sale of lethal weapons to those too young to bear their terrible responsibility.
--It puts up a big "off-limits" sign, to stop gunrunners from dumping cheap foreign "$10 specials" on the shores of our country.
Congress adopted most of our recommendations. But this bill--as big as this bill is--still falls short, because we just could not get the Congress to carry out the requests we made of them. I asked for the national registration of all guns and the licensing of those who carry those guns. For the fact of life is that there are over 160 million guns in this country--more firearms than families. If guns are to be kept out of the hands of the criminal, out of the hands of the insane, and out of the hands of the irresponsible, then we just must have licensing. If the criminal with a gun is to be tracked down quickly, then we must have registration in this country.
The voices that blocked these safeguards were not the voices of an aroused nation. They were the voices of a powerful lobby, a gun lobby, that has prevailed for the moment in an election year.
-October 22, 1968
You just pointed out that the response was to the speech, not the purchase.
Thanks. Got Milk?
Thanks. Got Milk?
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Andy9o8 2
QuoteYou just pointed out that the response was to the speech, not the purchase.
Thanks. Got Milk?
The speech was in response to JFK's assassination, which was facilitated by the mail-order purchase. The speech was also in response to the the gun lobby's having thwarted registration legislation in 1968, shortly after MLK & RFK got their respective ballistic lobotomies, too.
well, going by that logic, the purchase was made in response to the politics of the day...how far back do we want to go with this?
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
QuoteI joined the NRA because of Obama and Feinstein. Had no real interest before all this bullshit.
+1, never owned a gun before, not really to interested. Went out and bought a 9mm just because I can ( right now ). Going out to the range today with my neighbor. Who knows maybe, maybe I will turn from a rather uninterested to NRA member soon
QuoteQuoteI joined the NRA because of Obama and Feinstein. Had no real interest before all this bullshit.
+1, never owned a gun before, not really to interested. Went out and bought a 9mm just because I can ( right now ). Going out to the range today with my neighbor. Who knows maybe, maybe I will turn from a rather uninterested to NRA member soon
May I strongly suggest some organized training?
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
BIGUN 1,486
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAgreed. Why then is the demand so high for plinking ammo? And unless you can back it up, please dont just reply "it's the NRA's fault"
You need to brush up your analytical skills.
The NRA is emulating Chicken Little and screaming "The sky is about to fall" and all the sheep rush out to buy guns and ammo. The NRA is playing you folks like violins.
The Obama egg came first. Chicken Little is a result; not a cause.
That's just not true. The nra has been waging the modern version of its PR campaign ever since LBJ made a speech about Oswald having bought his rifle via mail order.
This was written before Newtown.
The Myth Of NRA Dominance | The Declining Role Of Guns In American Society
PART 1 - http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/02/09/421893/the-myth-of-nra-dominance-part-i-the-nras-ineffective-spending/
"...lest the National Rifle Association and its congressional allies rise up and weaken gun laws further. Inevitably, when the issue of guns arises, the myth of the fearsomely potent NRA comes right along. But it is just that – a myth."
PART 2 - http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/02/13/424213/the-myth-of-nra-dominance-part-ii-overrated-endorsements/
"In today’s installment, I will address the question of the NRA endorsement, something sought by not only Republicans but many Democrats as well."
PART 3 - http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/02/22/430560/the-myth-of-nra-dominance-part-iii-two-elections-the-nra-did-not-win/
"Yet there are other more compelling explanations for the outcome in Tennessee, the simplest of which is a partisan one. Tennessee was in the midst of a larger trend in the South, where the state was growing more and more Republican over time. When Al Gore arrived in Congress in 1983, the House delegation he joined had six Democrats and three Republicans; after the 2000 election the margin was 5-4 in favor of Republicans, and today it is 7-2 Republican. The 2000 presidential election was not an anomaly, but rather part of a steady trend away from the Democratic party in Tennessee. Bill Clinton won there in 1996 by only 2.4 points, less than he had in 1992. Gore lost there by 3.9 points, John Kerry lost in 2004 by 14.3 points, and four years later Barack Obama lost by 15.1 points. The state is now considered safely in the Republican column for any presidential election.
There is also some more direct evidence about the effect of the gun issue. As part of a rolling cross-section survey that lasted the entire campaign, the National Annenberg Election Survey interviewed over 1,000 Tennesseans over the course of 2000, and among the questions they asked was whether respondents thought the federal government should do more or less about “restricting the kinds of guns people can buy.” Contrary to the picture of Tennessee as a state yearning to do away with gun laws and punishing Gore for his support of them, a full 60 percent responded that the government should do more, while 18 percent said it should do the same amount. Only 9 percent said the government should do less, and 12 percent said the government should have no restrictions at all."
PART 4 http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/01/435437/the-myth-of-nra-dominance-part-iv-the-declining-role-of-guns-in-american-society/?mobile=nc
I address the contemporary status of guns in America. For all the cultural weight and mythology about firearms, the truth is that gun ownership has undergone a long and steady decline. Demographic shifts suggest that in the future, that decline will only continue and perhaps accelerate. And as contentious as the gun issue often appears, there is widespread agreement that gun ownership can and should be limited in various ways. Though a majority of Americans believe in a broad right to own guns, they also support universal background checks, permit requirements, and measures to keep guns out of the hands of potentially dangerous people.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.
kallend 2,150
QuoteQuoteQuoteAgreed. Why then is the demand so high for plinking ammo? And unless you can back it up, please dont just reply "it's the NRA's fault"
You need to brush up your analytical skills.
The NRA is emulating Chicken Little and screaming "The sky is about to fall" and all the sheep rush out to buy guns and ammo. The NRA is playing you folks like violins.
The Obama egg came first. Chicken Little is a result; not a cause.
Nice NRA violin sonata you are playing there.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
BIGUN 1,486
Bach 's Chaconne comes to mind. 
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.
Even using your example, you don't understand cause and effect?
Even using your example, you don't understand cause and effect?