regulator 0 #76 January 23, 2013 I'm sure people she possibly saved have a different opinion of that. Besides I'm sure the next time someone comes to your sex shop and asks for the extra large dildos they would appreciate you going out of your way to get the ladder to get up on the top shelf. Thats mighty nice of you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #77 January 23, 2013 Quote I bet you think the justice system inherently protects you from violence too, don't you? It does a lot better job of doing so than do civilians carrying concealed weapons. (Yes, I've read John Lott's work. His conclusions regarding CCW effects on crime rates are not justified by the data.)Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #78 January 23, 2013 QuoteI'm sure people she possibly saved have a different opinion of that. Really? You're sure that those people aren't glad that a cop on the scene did her job? Interesting.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #79 January 23, 2013 QuoteSo...the fact that a person who 'just happened' to be on the scene & was armed, stopped what surely would have been another tragedy by using a concealed weapon, is completely lost on you because of what they do while 'at work'. Apparently the fact that she wasn't just a person, but an actual police officer trained for such situations, is completely lost on you.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 385 #80 January 23, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuotethey don't just give out concealed carry permits like fishing licenses. True. It's more like the way they give out small-game hunting licenses: i.e., a small fee and minimal training. You have obviously never taken a Texas ccl course. Correct. So tell me, how many weeks does the training program last? How many hours per day are we talking about during those weeks? You can google the answer just as easy as anyone else. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/index.htm "An original (first time) CHL applicant must complete a minimum 10 hour class, taught by a DPS certified CHL instructor. The class includes classroom and a proficiency demonstration (shooting)." Like I said, minimal training, similar to a small-game hunting license in some states.Vastly better than Georgia, which requires ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL other than passing the background check. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #81 January 23, 2013 QuoteQuoteI'm sure people she possibly saved have a different opinion of that. Really? You're sure that those people aren't glad that a cop on the scene did her job? Interesting. No I'm saying that the peoples lives she possibly saved wouldnt consider what she did as just part of her job. This would be definately above and beyond the call of duty. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #82 January 23, 2013 QuoteVastly better than Georgia, which requires ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL other than passing the background check. True, but that's a lot like a parent saying that they would rather their kids make Ds instead of Fs. While undoubtedly true, most prents would prefer As, Bs, or even Cs to Ds.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #83 January 23, 2013 QuoteNo I'm saying that the peoples lives she possibly saved wouldnt consider what she did as just part of her job. This would be definately above and beyond the call of duty. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp? It's difficult to grasp because there's absolutely nothing suggesting your assertion is true. She did her job, no more, no less. She certainly did not go "above and beyond the call of duty." I'm sure many were thankful that there was a cop on site, though. I doubt many of them would have preferred a mere CCW holder.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #84 January 23, 2013 Ive encountered many people in the service industry that I ask them for assistance and they tell me...Oh I'm on break...ask steve. She could have gone home and watched the news instead. I hope you arent a waiter because you seem to be the kind of person that would say youre on break rather than going out of your way to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #85 January 23, 2013 QuoteIve encountered many people in the service industry that I ask them for assistance and they tell me...Oh I'm on break...ask steve. She could have gone home and watched the news instead. I hope you arent a waiter because you seem to be the kind of person that would say youre on break rather than going out of your way to help. You're confusing police officers with waiters. Police are not part of the service industry. I seriously doubt she would still have a job if her superiors found out she allowed a violent felony to be committed in her presence without taking any action. There is a reason that many police departments require off-duty officers to carry a gun.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManagingPrime 0 #86 January 23, 2013 I'm sure many were thankful that there was a cop on site, though. I doubt many of them would have preferred a mere CCW holder. Tell that to the bystanders in nyc that got shot up by the police recently. This appeal to authority used regarding police proficiency with firearms is amus ing. If you are so inclined, look into how often the average police officer is required to qualify with their firearms. All other things being equal, if it came to shot placement I would take the average ccw over the average cop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #87 January 23, 2013 Quote In Reply To So...the fact that a person who 'just happened' to be on the scene & was armed, stopped what surely would have been another tragedy by using a concealed weapon, is completely lost on you because of what they do while 'at work'. Apparently the fact that she wasn't just a person, but an actual police officer trained for such situations, is completely lost on you. That's a SWAT situation. I read nothing to suggest that she was a SWAT officer. What are cops trained to do? Secure the scene. What else? Take out a threat if said threat is immediate. Let’s talk about cops. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/lawsuit-woman-struck-police-gunfire-empire-state-shooting-article-1.1245247 There’s a pretty interesting quote in there: Quote"These officers had to make split-second decisions in dealing with a life-threatening situation presented by an armed gunman who had just killed someone," he said. "The state's highest court has recognized that police officers' split-second decisions to use deadly force must be protected from this kind of second-guessing." How interesting is this? It’s real life, folks. As much as people say, “Well, what would some Joe with a CCW do when confronted with such a situation?” Apparently, exactly the same thing as cops would do. Let’s not second guess cops praying and sprating (16 shots fired in seconds from pistols – not assault rifles). Come to think of it, it would constitute a mass shooting. In addition to the perp, nine bystanders were wounded – three of them shot and the others hit by fragments. The cops shot more people than the perp did on that day. So in wondering what kind of chaos can ensue when a private citizen neutralizes a killer, just look at cops. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #88 January 23, 2013 QuoteTell that to the bystanders in nyc that got shot up by the police recently. Yes, police can abuse their authority. Of course, CCW holders can abuse their right to carry. QuoteThis appeal to authority used regarding police proficiency with firearms is amus ing. As amusing as your incorrect use of appeal to authority? QuoteIf you are so inclined, look into how often the average police officer is required to qualify with their firearms. All other things being equal, if it came to shot placement I would take the average ccw over the average cop. Your belief that it's all about aiming ability demonstrates rather well that a CCW applicant is not nearly as well suited for situations requiring deadly force than a typical cop is.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #89 January 23, 2013 QuoteQuoteIve encountered many people in the service industry that I ask them for assistance and they tell me...Oh I'm on break...ask steve. She could have gone home and watched the news instead. I hope you arent a waiter because you seem to be the kind of person that would say youre on break rather than going out of your way to help. You're confusing police officers with waiters. Police are not part of the service industry. I seriously doubt she would still have a job if her superiors found out she allowed a violent felony to be committed in her presence without taking any action. There is a reason that many police departments require off-duty officers to carry a gun. My father has 40+ years in law enforcement in Texas. I know the difference. Obviously you dont. My dad was stabbed in the back serving an arrest warrant in the 50's. When you read the article in the houston chronicle it reads 29 year old ni**er woman stabs HPD officer in back. I had to do a double take and read it again. It was definately a different time back then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #90 January 23, 2013 QuoteQuoteTell that to the bystanders in nyc that got shot up by the police recently. Yes, police can abuse their authority. Of course, CCW holders can abuse their right to carry. QuoteThis appeal to authority used regarding police proficiency with firearms is amus ing. As amusing as your incorrect use of appeal to authority? QuoteIf you are so inclined, look into how often the average police officer is required to qualify with their firearms. All other things being equal, if it came to shot placement I would take the average ccw over the average cop. Your belief that it's all about aiming ability demonstrates rather well that a CCW applicant is not nearly as well suited for situations requiring deadly force than a typical cop is. According to YOU. The armchair quarterback. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #91 January 23, 2013 I can outshoot a majority of the police in my area. Let me know if you want lessons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #92 January 23, 2013 QuoteThat's a SWAT situation. I read nothing to suggest that she was a SWAT officer. What are cops trained to do? Secure the scene. What else? Take out a threat if said threat is immediate. It's a SWAT situation only if there is time to call SWAT. There wasn't. So the cop on scene took out the immediate threat, as she was trained to do. QuoteLet’s talk about cops. … Yes, we all know that there are police officers who probably aren't well suited for their job. That doesn't mean someone with little to no training is better suited to that job.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 385 #93 January 23, 2013 QuoteOff duty...not in uniform, not called to the scene, not At her JOB. Just in essence a face in the crowd, that happened to be armed. Incorrect information. Sgt. Castellano was working as paid armed security at the theater at the time, she didn't "just happen to be there". Your source is also wrong in asserting that the gunman killed his girlfriend at the nearby restaurant, she was not there at all and the gunman wounded one person but killed nobody. So we have a situation where a gunman went after some people in a restaurant, for reasons that are not clear from the news stories, and when people ran from the restaurant and towards the vicinity of the theater, the gunman chased them until a paid security person shot him. This is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from the scenario popularized by those who are blatantly twisting the story to exploit it for their everybody-must-be-armed agenda, who would have us believe that an armed private citizen who just happened to be in the right place at the right time stopped an Aurora-style mass killing. If the case for mass arming the public is so strong, why do people have to invent lies to justify it? Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #94 January 23, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteIve encountered many people in the service industry that I ask them for assistance and they tell me...Oh I'm on break...ask steve. She could have gone home and watched the news instead. I hope you arent a waiter because you seem to be the kind of person that would say youre on break rather than going out of your way to help. You're confusing police officers with waiters. Police are not part of the service industry. I seriously doubt she would still have a job if her superiors found out she allowed a violent felony to be committed in her presence without taking any action. There is a reason that many police departments require off-duty officers to carry a gun. My father has 40+ years in law enforcement in Texas. I know the difference. Clearly you don't if you are seriously comparing police to the service industry.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #95 January 23, 2013 QuoteQuoteThat's a SWAT situation. I read nothing to suggest that she was a SWAT officer. What are cops trained to do? Secure the scene. What else? Take out a threat if said threat is immediate. It's a SWAT situation only if there is time to call SWAT. There wasn't. So the cop on scene took out the immediate threat, as she was trained to do. QuoteLet’s talk about cops. … Yes, we all know that there are police officers who probably aren't well suited for their job. That doesn't mean someone with little to no training is better suited to that job. There you go with your assumptions again. So every single ccw holder ONLY has the minimum training? None of us were trained by the government ahead of time? None of them go to the range with police officers? You need to stop your assinine statements before you make yourself look even more stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManagingPrime 0 #96 January 23, 2013 Quote Your belief that it's all about aiming ability demonstrates rather well that a CCW applicant is not nearly as well suited for situations requiring deadly force than a typical cop is. I never stated it was all about shot placement, that is why I qualified the statement with "all other things being equal." CCW holders are not law enforcement. I would not expect a ccw holder to protect me anymore than I would expect the police too. Matter of fact, I put them both into the catagory of elevated threat vs the average unarmed citizen, but that is kind of besides the point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #97 January 23, 2013 QuoteYes, we all know that there are police officers who probably aren't well suited for their job. That doesn't mean someone with little to no training is better suited to that job. Correct. On the other hand, trained individuals with firearms are also banned from these gun free zones. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #98 January 23, 2013 QuoteThere you go with your assumptions again. So every single ccw holder ONLY has the minimum training? I never said anything of the sort. However, the only training we can assume a CCW holder has is the minimal training required to obtain the CCW. Certainly some have more training than that, but you didn't specify only CCW holders who have had training far above and beyond what is required of a CCW applicant. If that's what you meant, you should have written that.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #99 January 23, 2013 QuoteI can outshoot a majority of the police in my area. Let me know if you want lessons. I've more experience with guns than most, thanks.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #100 January 23, 2013 Quote Correct. On the other hand, trained individuals with firearms are also banned from these gun free zones. Can you give examples of where cops are required to disarm themselves before entering the premises?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
