Semi Auto's Demo'ed

[rushmc 23]

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>You are talking about those who NEED a safety net . . . I am for that too

Agreed! Although the system is sometimes abused it functions fairly well for people who need it.

>Unfortunatly we have gone way beyond that. To apoint where it hurts the
>"general wellfare" as meant in the Constitution

What would be an example of that?

99 weeks of unemployment

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,119]

>99 weeks of unemployment

I understand how you do not like that, but how does that harm the general welfare of the United States?

[rushmc 23]

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>99 weeks of unemployment

I understand how you do not like that, but how does that harm the general welfare of the United States?

Do you think people being paid not to work for over a year promotes the general welfare?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,119]

>Do you think people being paid not to work for over a year promotes the
>general welfare?

Yes. It does not promote your political ideals, but feeding a man (specifically giving him money to allow him to eat) promotes his general welfare.

[turtlespeed 226]

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>Do you think people being paid not to work for over a year promotes the
>general welfare?

Yes. It does not promote your political ideals, but feeding a man (specifically giving him money to allow him to eat) promotes his general welfare.

By your description, it should be optional to work for a living or not.

Also, you are semantically correct. It does promote welfare.

It does more harm than good, but at least it promotes welfare and the liberal political strategy.

All Hail The Entitlement To Welfare State.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,119]

>By your description, it should be optional to work for a living or not.

Nope. I said nothing about whether it is optional to work for a living or not.

>All Hail The Entitlement To Welfare State.

All Hail the US Constitution.

[turtlespeed 226]

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>By your description, it should be optional to work for a living or not.

Nope. I said nothing about whether it is optional to work for a living or not.

>All Hail The Entitlement To Welfare State.

All Hail the US Constitution.

You said 99 weeks of unemployment benefits is beneficial.

If you shorten the benefit time line, there is a lot more incentive to go look for a paying job. As opposed to being paid to NOT have a job.

So, optional is a nice descriptor.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,119]

>You said 99 weeks of unemployment benefits is beneficial. If you shorten the benefit
> time line, there is a lot more incentive to go look for a paying job. As opposed to
> being paid to NOT have a job. So, optional is a nice descriptor.

Quite a long and tortured line of reasoning, one I do not agree with.

But yes, I think working should be optional. Take someone who inherited a fortune. Should he be required to work under pain of prison? Or a Down syndrome patient who is barely functional. Should be be required to work? What sort of jail time would you give him if he couldn't?

(and yes, that last line above should be taken as seriously as yours)

[turtlespeed 226]

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>You said 99 weeks of unemployment benefits is beneficial. If you shorten the benefit
> time line, there is a lot more incentive to go look for a paying job. As opposed to
> being paid to NOT have a job. So, optional is a nice descriptor.

Quite a long and tortured line of reasoning, one I do not agree with.

But yes, I think working should be optional. Take someone who inherited a fortune. Should he be required to work under pain of prison? Or a Down syndrome patient who is barely functional. Should be be required to work? What sort of jail time would you give him if he couldn't?

(and yes, that last line above should be taken as seriously as yours)[/reply

Inherited fortune : Can pay their own way and contributes to, while not being a drain on society.
barely functional Down Syndrome : is provided for under disability legislation.

Guy on unemployment for 99 weeks: drain on society, can't pay their own way, needs to suck up the pride and stop taking monies he didn't work for or inherit.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

• Quote

[lurch 0]

Bullshit. They're not "being paid not to work" as if the goal is to get them not to work by paying them. They're being paid usually barely enough to survive on while they are supposed to be hunting a job. I've lost my job twice in the last 5 years due to globalizing outsourcing and my employers being more willing to hire mexican labor than the robots I used to run. I was collecting the maximum, which was about half of what I used to make and I was slowly going under despite having no home phone, cell only, no cable, no internet besides the cellphone, no car insurance, bare minimum of bills.
Despite your apparent expectation that I'd now be happy to be "paid not to work" I hit the job market like my life depended on it, and in a job market where the average period of job hunting was 18 months I landed one in 2 weeks.

Next time the pickings were even thinner and despite an all-out all-day attack it took me 8 weeks to find another, and I'm far more versatile than most... almost any factory can use me, but there were thousands of apps for the most menial of positions. If you had your way I'd be reduced to living in a dumpster 8 weeks later. No money, no rent, no phone, no way to GET a job because I have to scrounge trash cans to eat. Once you fall out the bottom of the system like that you CAN'T get a job. Nobody hires the phoneless carless addressless filthy homeless.

Setting unemployment coverage to reflect the realities of the brutal job market search duration to help keep people from starving due to the problems the politicians created in the first place is one of the only things I ever saw the government do right. Cut it to a few weeks, and you will see the starving homeless population EXPLODE... Instead how bout asking the DOD to get by with a few less multibillion dollar bombers aircraft carriers prototype crowd control death rays and other toys? Sell a couple of those off and you could feed the country for fucking years...

If stupid people want to waste that time, thats not my problem. In 99 weeks they'll starve, and they leave more spots open for ME to grab. I used unemployment for the safety net it is and bounced right back on my feet repeatedly. How many families do YOU want to see living in your local tent city?
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[turtlespeed 226]

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Bullshit. They're not "being paid not to work" as if the goal is to get them not to work by paying them. They're being paid usually barely enough to survive on while they are supposed to be hunting a job. I've lost my job twice in the last 5 years due to globalizing outsourcing and my employers being more willing to hire mexican labor than the robots I used to run. I was collecting the maximum, which was about half of what I used to make and I was slowly going under despite having no home phone, cell only, no cable, no internet besides the cellphone, no car insurance, bare minimum of bills.
Despite your apparent expectation that I'd now be happy to be "paid not to work" I hit the job market like my life depended on it, and in a job market where the average period of job hunting was 18 months I landed one in 2 weeks.

Next time the pickings were even thinner and despite an all-out all-day attack it took me 8 weeks to find another, and I'm far more versatile than most... almost any factory can use me, but there were thousands of apps for the most menial of positions. If you had your way I'd be reduced to living in a dumpster 8 weeks later. No money, no rent, no phone, no way to GET a job because I have to scrounge trash cans to eat. Once you fall out the bottom of the system like that you CAN'T get a job. Nobody hires the phoneless carless addressless filthy homeless.

Setting unemployment coverage to reflect the realities of the brutal job market search duration to help keep people from starving due to the problems the politicians created in the first place is one of the only things I ever saw the government do right. Cut it to a few weeks, and you will see the starving homeless population EXPLODE... Instead how bout asking the DOD to get by with a few less multibillion dollar bombers aircraft carriers prototype crowd control death rays and other toys? Sell a couple of those off and you could feed the country for fucking years...

If stupid people want to waste that time, thats not my problem. In 99 weeks they'll starve, and they leave more spots open for ME to grab. I used unemployment for the safety net it is and bounced right back on my feet repeatedly. How many families do YOU want to see living in your local tent city?
-B

Almost 2 YEARS is way to long. 6 months is a lot more realistic.
If you can't find anything in 6 Months its time to make a change and stop sponging off of others.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,119]

>Guy on unemployment for 99 weeks: drain on society, can't pay their own way

In many cases, yes. In some cases, no.

>stop taking monies he didn't work for or inherit.

There's the rub. RonD recently posted that while he thought that people who took government money were lazy moochers, he himself got checks from the government for medicare and social security. He justified this by claiming that "he was entitled to it because he paid into the system." He felt that since he contributed to the system via his taxes he was entitled to draw from it, and this made him not a moocher.

Likewise, everyone who works pays taxes into the unemployment program. (Only people who have worked can get unemployment, so no one on unemployment hasn't paid for it.) When they are laid off they get that money back. Thus they feel they are entitled as well. "I paid for it, why shouldn't I get it?"

Per your statements you agree, at least for the short term. I also agree that _most_ people who go for 99 weeks on unemployment are bilking the system. Fortunately they are in a very small minority.

[turtlespeed 226]

The minority is growing as people figure out that they can vote themselves more money.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>Do you think people being paid not to work for over a year promotes the
>general welfare?

Yes. It does not promote your political ideals, but feeding a man (specifically giving him money to allow him to eat) promotes his general welfare.

HIS?

Hmmm

did not see that word in any doc

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Sorry
You are being paid for NOT working

this is not debatable

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,119]

>The minority is growing as people figure out that they can vote themselves more money.

It's shrinking, actually. From a year ago:

============
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The 99ers? Call them the 73ers.

Beginning later this year, the maximum number of weeks the jobless can collect unemployment benefits will be reduced to 73 weeks.

The legislation, which Congress approved Friday, calls for unemployment insurance to be reduced in two stages. States with lower jobless rates will see federal benefits trimmed starting in June. The full cut will go into effect in September.
============

And it has been cut since then as well by some states. Maximum unemployment insurance duration now ranges from 40 to 73 weeks.

You were saying?

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

>The minority is growing as people figure out that they can vote themselves more money.

It's shrinking, actually. From a year ago:

============
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The 99ers? Call them the 73ers.

Beginning later this year, the maximum number of weeks the jobless can collect unemployment benefits will be reduced to 73 weeks.

The legislation, which Congress approved Friday, calls for unemployment insurance to be reduced in two stages. States with lower jobless rates will see federal benefits trimmed starting in June. The full cut will go into effect in September.
============

And it has been cut since then as well by some states. Maximum unemployment insurance duration now ranges from 40 to 73 weeks.

You were saying?

I was saying that the people that yo call the minority in this case are growing still as they learn how to better get around the system.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,119]

>I was saying that the people that yo call the minority in this case are growing still as
>they learn how to better get around the system.

Given that:

-the length of time people can stay on unemployment is dropping
-they CAN'T get around that part of the system
-the total number of people on unemployment is dropping

that flies in the face of what's actually happening.

I am sure that there are people out there who try to bilk the system for all its worth. But after 10 to 18 months they lose that unemployment check no matter what they do. So they're SOL after that point.

[kallend 2,150]

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Bullshit. They're not "being paid not to work" as if the goal is to get them not to work by paying them. They're being paid usually barely enough to survive on while they are supposed to be hunting a job. I've lost my job twice in the last 5 years due to globalizing outsourcing and my employers being more willing to hire mexican labor than the robots I used to run. I was collecting the maximum, which was about half of what I used to make and I was slowly going under despite having no home phone, cell only, no cable, no internet besides the cellphone, no car insurance, bare minimum of bills.
Despite your apparent expectation that I'd now be happy to be "paid not to work" I hit the job market like my life depended on it, and in a job market where the average period of job hunting was 18 months I landed one in 2 weeks.

Next time the pickings were even thinner and despite an all-out all-day attack it took me 8 weeks to find another, and I'm far more versatile than most... almost any factory can use me, but there were thousands of apps for the most menial of positions. If you had your way I'd be reduced to living in a dumpster 8 weeks later. No money, no rent, no phone, no way to GET a job because I have to scrounge trash cans to eat. Once you fall out the bottom of the system like that you CAN'T get a job. Nobody hires the phoneless carless addressless filthy homeless.

Setting unemployment coverage to reflect the realities of the brutal job market search duration to help keep people from starving due to the problems the politicians created in the first place is one of the only things I ever saw the government do right. Cut it to a few weeks, and you will see the starving homeless population EXPLODE... Instead how bout asking the DOD to get by with a few less multibillion dollar bombers aircraft carriers prototype crowd control death rays and other toys? Sell a couple of those off and you could feed the country for fucking years...

If stupid people want to waste that time, thats not my problem. In 99 weeks they'll starve, and they leave more spots open for ME to grab. I used unemployment for the safety net it is and bounced right back on my feet repeatedly. How many families do YOU want to see living in your local tent city?
-B

Almost 2 YEARS is way to long. 6 months is a lot more realistic.
If you can't find anything in 6 Months its time to make a change and stop sponging off of others.

When there are 4 job seekers for every available job, as was the case at the worst of the Bush recession, your math simply doesn't compute. Or to put it another way, you are living in cloud-cuckoo land.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 226]

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Bullshit. They're not "being paid not to work" as if the goal is to get them not to work by paying them. They're being paid usually barely enough to survive on while they are supposed to be hunting a job. I've lost my job twice in the last 5 years due to globalizing outsourcing and my employers being more willing to hire mexican labor than the robots I used to run. I was collecting the maximum, which was about half of what I used to make and I was slowly going under despite having no home phone, cell only, no cable, no internet besides the cellphone, no car insurance, bare minimum of bills.
Despite your apparent expectation that I'd now be happy to be "paid not to work" I hit the job market like my life depended on it, and in a job market where the average period of job hunting was 18 months I landed one in 2 weeks.

Next time the pickings were even thinner and despite an all-out all-day attack it took me 8 weeks to find another, and I'm far more versatile than most... almost any factory can use me, but there were thousands of apps for the most menial of positions. If you had your way I'd be reduced to living in a dumpster 8 weeks later. No money, no rent, no phone, no way to GET a job because I have to scrounge trash cans to eat. Once you fall out the bottom of the system like that you CAN'T get a job. Nobody hires the phoneless carless addressless filthy homeless.

Setting unemployment coverage to reflect the realities of the brutal job market search duration to help keep people from starving due to the problems the politicians created in the first place is one of the only things I ever saw the government do right. Cut it to a few weeks, and you will see the starving homeless population EXPLODE... Instead how bout asking the DOD to get by with a few less multibillion dollar bombers aircraft carriers prototype crowd control death rays and other toys? Sell a couple of those off and you could feed the country for fucking years...

If stupid people want to waste that time, thats not my problem. In 99 weeks they'll starve, and they leave more spots open for ME to grab. I used unemployment for the safety net it is and bounced right back on my feet repeatedly. How many families do YOU want to see living in your local tent city?
-B

Almost 2 YEARS is way to long. 6 months is a lot more realistic.
If you can't find anything in 6 Months its time to make a change and stop sponging off of others.

When there are 4 job seekers for every available job, as was the case at the worst of the Bush recession, your math simply doesn't compute. Or to put it another way, you are living in cloud-cuckoo land.

Now that's an opinion!
Where is Cloud-Cukoo land? I do like clouds. They are fun to play with.

Otherwise your post is just noise.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[lurch 0]

No. Wrong.
Getting paid FOR not working would mean the purpose of the payments is to prevent me choosing to get a job. "Here, we don't want you working so as long as you sit at home and do nothing we'll pay you to do it." I'm not being given the money because someone wants me to not work. I got the money because I damn well paid into the system and I barely touched my 99 weeks either. I hold that in reserve and will reluctantly use it when the local economy finishes falling apart, it becomes impossible to start a business because it costs 10x the first years profits in taxes permits and fees to be allowed to build it and excessive tax and permitting has made mexico and china look better than New England, wiping out the last of the factories in the process. And leaving an entire region with no way to survive and no jobs to get. This has already happened all over the country.

Mooching my ass. I am a ferociously dedicated productive citizen because thats how I better myself. What would you have the people trapped in economic basket case regions do? Just sit and starve? Relocate? To where? With what money?

When there ARE no jobs left to get, you take what you can get, by any means necessary. Or you start a black market business out of your truck if you can. Or you starve. I have a shitton of valuable skills I can trade. I can fix fucking anything... industrial robots lasers computers cars machinery plumbing... I can't imagine how people with a useless degree in ancient history or some liberal arts degrees are managing to survive when they find out the system cannot afford to employ people for decorative nonessential tasks anymore. This is why we have people with 4 year degrees working Mcjobs and losing their houses, cars... Or are they all mooches?
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[rushmc 23]

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The minority is growing as people figure out that they can vote themselves more money.

This is what we are dealing with

They are arguing with you here that those of us that work some how owe those who (in many cases) choose not to work, 99 weeks of taxpayer cash

It is a wonder this country's finances are in the shit hole they are right now?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

99 weeks of mooching

Period

99 weeks of lazy ass hats living off of those who work

99 weeks of being a bum

Want to talk safety net

How about 50 weeks

That is still damn near a fucking year!!!!


And there are no jobs because of the admin we have today

Policy and taxes do make a difference

But Obama has an agenda

Right now he is winning

Just look at your arguments

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[brenthutch 444]

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Another gun thread to help kalled keep up his gun post count

He's too busy blathering on and diluting whatever useful content he produces with the noise he's providing. It's done nothing but marginalize and discredit him.

But he sure is good at it.

Still smarting because I called out your strawman in the "gun confiscation" thread?

Or because I pointed out that you included yourself in the set of "nimwits" in this thread?

Or because your confusion of climate with weather was highlighted in the "Warm" thread?

Or because he confused all rifles, with AR15s or because he said that NO climate scientist ever said the main reason for global warming was CO2 or because he confused Chicago with the Northern Hemisphere.......oh wait .....that was you my good professor. Pot meet kettle

[kallend 2,150]

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Another gun thread to help kalled keep up his gun post count

He's too busy blathering on and diluting whatever useful content he produces with the noise he's providing. It's done nothing but marginalize and discredit him.

But he sure is good at it.

Still smarting because I called out your strawman in the "gun confiscation" thread?

Or because I pointed out that you included yourself in the set of "nimwits" in this thread?

Or because your confusion of climate with weather was highlighted in the "Warm" thread?

Or because he confused all rifles, with AR15s or because he said that NO climate scientist ever said the main reason for global warming was CO2 or because he confused Chicago with the Northern Hemisphere.......oh wait .....that was you my good professor. Pot meet kettle

Please provide a link to any post where I confused all rifles with AR15s. And the "main" in your claim should read "only". Etc.

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No scientist claimed that the only cause for warming was man made.

Trouble with misquoting people on DZ.COM is that there is a record of what they actually wrote. I'm surprised you haven't figured that out by now

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.