Inmate survey of where they got their guns for the crimes they commit

[Anvilbrother 0]

1% from gun shows....
39% illegally off the street
39% from family or friend
The rest from legal purchases

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf

Can anyone find newer stats? I've got to go to work.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[kallend 2,151]

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1% from gun shows....
39% illegally off the street
39% from family or friend
The rest from legal purchases

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf

Can anyone find newer stats? I've got to go to work.

I expect they all pleaded "Not Guilty" too. Inmates are SO honest.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,120]

Interesting stats. It would be interesting to see how many of them were guilty of a felony before they purchased the guns from the gun shops/friends.

[rehmwa 2]

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Interesting stats. It would be interesting to see how many of them were guilty of a felony before they purchased the guns from the gun shops/friends.

How would you normalize out felonies that are explicitly defined as requiring a gun to qualify?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DougH 270]

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/20/167739908/commentary-i-just-wish-guns-were-harder-to-come-by

We should have a war on guns.

The war on drugs is going so damn well.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[billvon 3,120]

>How would you normalize out felonies that are explicitly defined as requiring a gun to
>qualify?

I don't know, nor do I think you need to. The survey was simply for armed criminals; criminals who carried weapons during commission of their crimes.

Interesting stat:

"From 1991 to 1997 the percent of State inmates with guns who acquired them at a retail outlet fell from 21% to 14%."

Background checks started being required in 1993. That indicates that they do indeed discourage felons from buying weapons at retail outlets.

"The percentage of inmates who purchased or traded from a retail outlet, such as a store or pawnshop, fell during this period for both those with prior sentences and those without them. For repeat offenders, purchasing from retail fell from 17% to 11%,
and for first time offenders from 33% to 20%."

Seems to back that up.

"For recidivists the percentage of inmates with firearms who obtained them from family or friends rose from 1991 to 1997 — for recidivists from 33% in 1991 to 39% in 1997 and for first timers from 36% in 1991 to 41% in 1997."

Which suggests that they were still able to get them from (among other places) friends and family. Thus a requirement that ALL sales go through a background check is likely to have a similar effect of making guns harder to obtain for recidivists.

"About 83% with a firearm and 78% without one may have been disqualified from purchasing a gun."

Which means that most of the criminals in the survey would fail a background check, were it required for all sales.

[Anvilbrother 0]

But only the gun shows, retail, pawn shops would actually be enforced or you can't buy the gun.. 39% would still be illegally done on the street, and say half of the 39% of family and friends would voluntarily do the mandatory registered transfer.


So we still have a problem were they could get someone to buy it for them legally, obtain on the street, or do a private transfer with friends and family even tho the law would require it for all transfers.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Andy9o8 2]

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But only the gun shows, retail, pawn shops would actually be enforced or you can't buy the gun.. 39% would still be illegally done on the street, and say half of the 39% of family and friends would voluntarily do the mandatory registered transfer.

So we still have a problem were they could get someone to buy it for them legally, obtain on the street, or do a private transfer with friends and family even tho the law would require it for all transfers.

With a protocol of (a) strict registration for all private transfers, and (b) strict enforcement, i.e., vigorous prosecution of straw purchasers, and (c) public advertising of the strict enforcement policy (I've heard just such commercials on the radio from time to time), that may further reduce the percentage of people who are willing to be straw purchasers for disqualified transferees or fail to comply with the registration laws.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Possibly, but I don't hold much hope for that when we are dealing with criminals who love to obey laws.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[lawrocket 3]

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"About 83% with a firearm and 78% without one may have been disqualified from purchasing a gun."

Which means that most of the criminals in the survey would fail a background check, were it required for all sales.

Right. But that’s where the black market comes in. We have yet to find a solution to the problem of the black market. As indicated in the stats “"From 1991 to 1997 the percent of State inmates with guns who acquired them at a retail outlet fell from 21% to 14%."

As you commented, it means that fewer are acquiring them at retail outlets. But they are still acquiring them. 39% are acquired illegally off the street, meaning a black market already exists and will be made more profitable.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Possibly, but I don't hold much hope for that when we are dealing with criminals who love to obey laws.

I bear no illusions about people who are already inclined to the criminal side of the law. I'm looking more to using deterrence to reduce the portion of people on the periphery who are normally law-abiding people but who are willing to help circumvent the background/registration laws, either to help someone out, or to make a few quick bucks as a "harmless" middleman.

[dpreguy 14]

And this inmate survey is accurate? Because inmates are inherently honest about such questions?
Dump the so called "inmate survey" in the nearest landfill, as it has the value and the validity of trash. Waste of electrons.

[billvon 3,120]

>39% would still be illegally done on the street, and say half of the 39% of family
>and friends would voluntarily do the mandatory registered transfer.

OK. So you've solved 20% of the problem. Not a bad start. Combine that with education (i.e. how to lock up your guns, penalties for not doing background checks) and better handling of the insane and you could make a real dent.

[Anvilbrother 0]

You can't trust anyone, but the reason I gave it some validity is 39% outted their family and friends as the persons who gave them the weapon. If they were trying to lie why finger someone like that, and not just say they got it off the street?

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[Bignugget 0]

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http://www.npr.org/2012/12/20/167739908/commentary-i-just-wish-guns-were-harder-to-come-by

We should have a war on guns.

The war on drugs is going so damn well.

Do you believe there would be less overall drugs on the streets if drugs were as legal as guns are?

If so then I would agree with your statement.

But it doesn't make sense to me that legalizing them will mean fewer total.


ETA: I most 100% agree that incarcerating people for "drugs" that they use that don't hurt others, is dumb.....but I also believe if drugs were legalized we would have more of them...which is great IMO. Drugs for everyone!, a joint cant slaughter a room of school kids AFAIK.

[Bignugget 0]

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"About 83% with a firearm and 78% without one may have been disqualified from purchasing a gun."

Which means that most of the criminals in the survey would fail a background check, were it required for all sales.

Right. But that’s where the black market comes in. We have yet to find a solution to the problem of the black market. As indicated in the stats “"From 1991 to 1997 the percent of State inmates with guns who acquired them at a retail outlet fell from 21% to 14%."

As you commented, it means that fewer are acquiring them at retail outlets. But they are still acquiring them. 39% are acquired illegally off the street, meaning a black market already exists and will be made more profitable.

"We" aren't the only country to contend with a "black market" for contraband goods.

SOMEHOW, all these other countries with gun control seem to be able to reduce the overall number of guns within their borders (and the rate they blast each others faces off), even with this unstoppable market force at work.

Im not the leaders of any of those nations but here is an idea I had.

ASK THEM how they are managing to not have so many guns on the street any asshole can get one to slaughter kids with, and go from there.

[kallend 2,151]

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Quote

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"About 83% with a firearm and 78% without one may have been disqualified from purchasing a gun."

Which means that most of the criminals in the survey would fail a background check, were it required for all sales.

Right. But that’s where the black market comes in. We have yet to find a solution to the problem of the black market. As indicated in the stats “"From 1991 to 1997 the percent of State inmates with guns who acquired them at a retail outlet fell from 21% to 14%."

As you commented, it means that fewer are acquiring them at retail outlets. But they are still acquiring them. 39% are acquired illegally off the street, meaning a black market already exists and will be made more profitable.

"We" aren't the only country to contend with a "black market" for contraband goods.

SOMEHOW, all these other countries with gun control seem to be able to reduce the overall number of guns within their borders (and the rate they blast each others faces off), even with this unstoppable market force at work.

Im not the leaders of any of those nations but here is an idea I had.

ASK THEM how they are managing to not have so many guns on the street any asshole can get one to slaughter kids with, and go from there.

Do some RESEARCH?

You know the NRA opposes any research related to gun violence.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Who goes a shit of they oppose it? Does how the NRA feels about research stop a university with its own funding, or a private research firm from doing research?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[billvon 3,120]

> Does how the NRA feels about research stop a university with its own funding,
> or a private research firm from doing research?

They get control of a senator or congressman, write the legislation banning the taking the data to allow such research, have him present it, then push hard to get it through.

[Bertt 0]

Another way to keep convicted felons from carrying guns on the street, wherever they get them, is to keep the felons in jail longer. Just a thought.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Another way to keep convicted felons from carrying guns on the street, wherever they get them, is to keep the felons in jail longer. Just a thought.

Pretty much already done. Possession by felon is already illegal, and most judges do enhance sentences for it. One can always argue "judges should give out even tougher sentences" or "sentencing laws need to be even tougher" in the abstract, but it really is already done.

[masterrig 1]

Weed... I'm not all that converned. It's the 'black tar', crack, heroin, coke, that concerns me!


CHUCK

[OHCHUTE 0]

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>How would you normalize out felonies that are explicitly defined as requiring a gun to
>qualify?

I don't know, nor do I think you need to. The survey was simply for armed criminals; criminals who carried weapons during commission of their crimes.

Interesting stat:

"From 1991 to 1997 the percent of State inmates with guns who acquired them at a retail outlet fell from 21% to 14%."

Background checks started being required in 1993. That indicates that they do indeed discourage felons from buying weapons at retail outlets.

"The percentage of inmates who purchased or traded from a retail outlet, such as a store or pawnshop, fell during this period for both those with prior sentences and those without them. For repeat offenders, purchasing from retail fell from 17% to 11%,
and for first time offenders from 33% to 20%."

Seems to back that up.

"For recidivists the percentage of inmates with firearms who obtained them from family or friends rose from 1991 to 1997 — for recidivists from 33% in 1991 to 39% in 1997 and for first timers from 36% in 1991 to 41% in 1997."

Which suggests that they were still able to get them from (among other places) friends and family. Thus a requirement that ALL sales go through a background check is likely to have a similar effect of making guns harder to obtain for recidivists.

"About 83% with a firearm and 78% without one may have been disqualified from purchasing a gun."

Which means that most of the criminals in the survey would fail a background check, were it required for all sales.

That's the straw purchase they speak of. Wife or girlfriend buys the gun and hands it over the the guy. Easiest way for Felon to get gun. Wife buying gun during private sale further reduces traceability over commercial sale (nics and state reg.)

[freethefly 6]

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a joint cant slaughter a room of school kids AFAIK.

No but, it will surely stone them. AFAIK, stoning is against the law in this country.

They'll stone you when you're trying to be so good
They'll stone you just like they said they would
They'll stone you when you're trying to go home
They'll stone you when you're there all alone
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[lawrocket 3]

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"We" aren't the only country to contend with a "black market" for contraband goods.

I know. Every country does.

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SOMEHOW, all these other countries with gun control seem to be able to reduce the overall number of guns within their borders (and the rate they blast each others faces off), even with this unstoppable market force at work.

Correct. Those are also countries without an equivalent of the Second Amendment. The laws differ (pretty lax in Austria but strict in Germany). Individual rights really aren’t seen as a big deal in most of these places. They also have a history of trusting the governments to have their best interests in mind. Recent histories of having kings, dictators, etc. Even Germany has a history of disarming its population.

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ASK THEM how they are managing to not have so many guns on the street any asshole can get one to slaughter kids with, and go from there.

It could be accomplished here without the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth and 14th Amendments. It’s a problem that these rules have been around for over 200 years and are part of the culture.

Recognizing America is different, with a different cutural ethos and different history, may go a long way.

My wife is hotter than your wife.