ShcShc11 0 #1 January 18, 2013 The GOP's 49% negative rating is the highest we have ever recorded. Tea Party movement also saw all-time high in neg rating https://twitter.com/chucktodd/status/292052726597165057 Primary Source: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/A_Politics/_Today_Stories_Teases/13018_JANUARY_NBC-WSJ.pdf Interesting new poll showing GOP strat on taking the debt ceiling as hostage isin't working. Shc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayneflorida 0 #2 January 18, 2013 We have to get debt ceiling back.Give them back the blind sheik. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #3 January 18, 2013 >The GOP's 49% negative rating is the highest we have ever recorded. But if people don't approve of the job they're doing, doesn't that mean that people approve of the job they are NOT doing? You have to look on the positive side of these things. "Highest ever recorded" sounds pretty positive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #4 January 18, 2013 Quote>The GOP's 49% negative rating is the highest we have ever recorded. But if people don't approve of the job they're doing, doesn't that mean that people approve of the job they are NOT doing? You have to look on the positive side of these things. "Highest ever recorded" sounds pretty positive. My guess is the 49% is not made up by Democrats only, I would think that number has gotten that High because a lot of Republicans are not happy as well. Or maybe I'm completely wrong, and America has truly embraced Obama's policies and his vision for its future. Maybe we can spend and tax our way back to prosperity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #5 January 18, 2013 QuoteQuote>The GOP's 49% negative rating is the highest we have ever recorded. But if people don't approve of the job they're doing, doesn't that mean that people approve of the job they are NOT doing? You have to look on the positive side of these things. "Highest ever recorded" sounds pretty positive. My guess is the 49% is not made up by Democrats only, I would think that number has gotten that High because a lot of Republicans are not happy as well. Or maybe I'm completely wrong, and America has truly embraced Obama's policies and his vision for its future. Maybe we can spend and tax our way back to prosperity. When discussing about spending/tax, I think we tend to generalize/not look at the details sufficiently. We tend to compare it to credit cards wayyyy too much (and erroneously too). When a gov spends, it spends on itself while credit card is when you pay your money to somebody else. By having an unemployed doing nothing is a tax in itself. This number doesn't show on any official numbers, but the worker's LOST-POTENTIAL affects the economy in a real way. See UK economy for real-life experiment. We, Americans, are deceived by the notion of spending is like a "personal credit cards". Cheers! Shc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #7 January 18, 2013 >When a gov spends, it spends on itself while credit card is when you pay your >money to somebody else. Sort of. A more accurate analogy would be that government spending is like spending on a home equity line of credit. We are "spending on ourself" in that it is based on real value we possess. And in both cases you can get into trouble by doing it too much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #8 January 18, 2013 Quote >When a gov spends, it spends on itself while credit card is when you pay your >money to somebody else. Sort of. A more accurate analogy would be that government spending is like spending on a home equity line of credit. We are "spending on ourself" in that it is based on real value we possess. And in both cases you can get into trouble by doing it too much. Its an OK analogy. My one big problem with that analogy is that you're still paying interest TO the bank. In our situation today, investors are willing to PAY America to borrow THEIR money. (i.e: The U.S would be making profit by taking their money). If there is ever a bank willing to pay me to take their mortgage/homeline, then call me up We can go on forever with anologies, but its probably more accurate to say that its like paying for University courses. *Spending during a zero-bound economy with 8% unemployment = Useful Accounting Courses with CPA/CA designation *Iraq War spending = Spending on Arts Program Cheers! Shc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #9 January 18, 2013 Quote Quote >When a gov spends, it spends on itself while credit card is when you pay your >money to somebody else. Sort of. A more accurate analogy would be that government spending is like spending on a home equity line of credit. We are "spending on ourself" in that it is based on real value we possess. And in both cases you can get into trouble by doing it too much. Its an OK analogy. My one big problem with that analogy is that you're still paying interest TO the bank. In our situation today, investors are willing to PAY America to borrow THEIR money. (i.e: The U.S would be making profit by taking their money). If there is ever a bank willing to pay me to take their mortgage/homeline, then call me up We can go on forever with anologies, but its probably more accurate to say that its like paying for University courses. *Spending during a zero-bound economy with 8% unemployment = Useful Accounting Courses with CPA/CA designation *Iraq War spending = Spending on Arts Program Cheers! Shc Disagree. Accountants don't grow the economy. They are just parasites, like Wall St traders.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #10 January 18, 2013 QuoteDisagree. Accountants don't grow the economy. They are just parasites, like Wall St traders. Relying a bit too much on stereotypes. Accountants keep the economy (i.e: corporations) honest. Shc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #11 January 18, 2013 You seem to be miffed about accountants. What's up? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #12 January 18, 2013 > In our situation today, investors are willing to PAY America to borrow THEIR money. ?? No, they're not. Can you show me a US bond that costs $100 and returns you $50 when it matures? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #13 January 18, 2013 Quote > In our situation today, investors are willing to PAY America to borrow THEIR money. ?? No, they're not. Can you show me a US bond that costs $100 and returns you $50 when it matures? http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=realyield Negative Interest Rates for 5, 7 and 10 years U.S bond meaning investors are giving the U.S money to borrow THEIR money (but the U.S is "refusing" to do so). This is why when the media talks about "budget calamity/long-term debt", it feels very 1984 to me (and many economists feel the same way). You have investors (and yes, that includes the Chinese) who are literally willing to give money to borrow their money and we're saying "No, we don't want free money". This is why "credit card" / "homeline" anologies are not just wrong; but dangerous. It hijacks the public conversation and perception into believing the wrong things. Cheers! Shc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #14 January 18, 2013 QuoteYou seem to be miffed about accountants. What's up? Not miffed, just telling the truth. There are productive people, who actually create wealth (in the broadest sense), and then there are those who just manipulate it and take a cut.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #15 January 18, 2013 >There are productive people, who actually create wealth (in the broadest sense), >and then there are those who just manipulate it and take a cut. And, of course, there are those that do neither - and just teach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #16 January 18, 2013 Quote>There are productive people, who actually create wealth (in the broadest sense), >and then there are those who just manipulate it and take a cut. And, of course, there are those that do neither - and just teach. Yep, no need for teachers. or police, or firemen.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #17 January 19, 2013 >Yep, no need for teachers. or police, or firemen. Not if your figure of merit is "productive people who create wealth." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #18 January 19, 2013 Quote>Yep, no need for teachers. or police, or firemen. Not if your figure of merit is "productive people who create wealth." What I wrote was "create wealth (in the broadest sense)" Nice try at misquoting, though.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #19 January 19, 2013 QuoteQuote>Yep, no need for teachers. or police, or firemen. Not if your figure of merit is "productive people who create wealth." What I wrote was "create wealth (in the broadest sense)" Nice try at misquoting, though. Its a pretty naive viewpoint. Accountants and Auditors are there to keep business and people (engineers, scientists alike) honest and ensure they have integrity. Probably little known fact, but the Higgs boson project was financially viable because of CPAs. I don't know about you, but integrity & honesty is part of wealth creation. Shc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,111 #20 January 19, 2013 >What I wrote was "create wealth (in the broadest sense)" Ah, so people like managers, bankers and accountants. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMK 3 #21 January 19, 2013 QuoteQuote> In our situation today, investors are willing to PAY America to borrow THEIR money. Billvon is correct. The link you show is a table of what they call “real” rates which are inflation adjusted. You must understand there is a difference between nominal and effective interest rates (example 10yr bond pays 4% coupon, but there is 5% inflation which equates to an “effective” rate of -1%, however the US Govt is still paying a positive nominal rate and not taking payment just to hold your money). At present, only in Switzerland, due to an extremely strong currency, do we actually see the possibility of negative nominal rates. A skydiving website is no place for a macroeconomics discussion, but I’ll give some food for thought: There are two types of inflation: monetary and fiscal (research it if you wish). You can create more money supply from the central bank standpoint, but unless this is levered in the banking system (fractional reserve) you do not get a directly correlated rise in inflation."Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #22 January 19, 2013 QuoteQuote>There are productive people, who actually create wealth (in the broadest sense), >and then there are those who just manipulate it and take a cut. And, of course, there are those that do neither - and just teach. Yep, no need for teachers. or police, or firemen. In what way(s) is a teacher more like a police officer or firefighter than is an accountant? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites OHCHUTE 0 #23 January 19, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuote>Yep, no need for teachers. or police, or firemen. Not if your figure of merit is "productive people who create wealth." What I wrote was "create wealth (in the broadest sense)" Nice try at misquoting, though. Its a pretty naive viewpoint. Accountants and Auditors are there to keep business and people (engineers, scientists alike) honest and ensure they have integrity. Probably little known fact, but the Higgs boson project was financially viable because of CPAs. I don't know about you, but integrity & honesty is part of wealth creation. Shc So is dishonesty so long as you don't get caught and even when you get caught you might not have to pay back nearly the wealth you got. Lance Armstrong--- worth $100m Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #24 January 19, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuote>There are productive people, who actually create wealth (in the broadest sense), >and then there are those who just manipulate it and take a cut. And, of course, there are those that do neither - and just teach. Yep, no need for teachers. or police, or firemen. In what way(s) is a teacher more like a police officer or firefighter than is an accountant? Same way that a fish is like a bicycle.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #25 January 20, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>There are productive people, who actually create wealth (in the broadest sense), >and then there are those who just manipulate it and take a cut. And, of course, there are those that do neither - and just teach. Yep, no need for teachers. or police, or firemen. In what way(s) is a teacher more like a police officer or firefighter than is an accountant? I thought vagitarians had copyright on that line. Same way that a fish is like a bicycle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
champu 1 #22 January 19, 2013 QuoteQuote>There are productive people, who actually create wealth (in the broadest sense), >and then there are those who just manipulate it and take a cut. And, of course, there are those that do neither - and just teach. Yep, no need for teachers. or police, or firemen. In what way(s) is a teacher more like a police officer or firefighter than is an accountant? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OHCHUTE 0 #23 January 19, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuote>Yep, no need for teachers. or police, or firemen. Not if your figure of merit is "productive people who create wealth." What I wrote was "create wealth (in the broadest sense)" Nice try at misquoting, though. Its a pretty naive viewpoint. Accountants and Auditors are there to keep business and people (engineers, scientists alike) honest and ensure they have integrity. Probably little known fact, but the Higgs boson project was financially viable because of CPAs. I don't know about you, but integrity & honesty is part of wealth creation. Shc So is dishonesty so long as you don't get caught and even when you get caught you might not have to pay back nearly the wealth you got. Lance Armstrong--- worth $100m Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #24 January 19, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuote>There are productive people, who actually create wealth (in the broadest sense), >and then there are those who just manipulate it and take a cut. And, of course, there are those that do neither - and just teach. Yep, no need for teachers. or police, or firemen. In what way(s) is a teacher more like a police officer or firefighter than is an accountant? Same way that a fish is like a bicycle.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #25 January 20, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>There are productive people, who actually create wealth (in the broadest sense), >and then there are those who just manipulate it and take a cut. And, of course, there are those that do neither - and just teach. Yep, no need for teachers. or police, or firemen. In what way(s) is a teacher more like a police officer or firefighter than is an accountant? I thought vagitarians had copyright on that line. Same way that a fish is like a bicycle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
