A Consolidated “Gun Crazy” Thread

[RMK 3]

I hadn’t ever followed the “Speakers Corner” threads, but over the holidays had some spare time and have been following the numerous “gun crazy” threads. I’d like to thank our hosts: regulator, rushmc, et al. It’s been entertaining; in the way that you watch Fox News, for the spectacle, but you don’t really think of it as “real news”. A special thank you goes out to Kallend who keeps the party going by tirelessly interjecting some intelligence & reason into the discussions.

For those joining the “regularly scheduled programme” late, the following video will bring you up to speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLzo9pOXa-s

If you wonder where the ideal America you remember from years ago has gone; this video will help your understanding (you’ll need a proxy server/viewer outside of US, but it’s pretty funny and worth the effort): http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-january-5-2010/even-better-than-the-real-thing

I haven’t been watching the news today, so wonder what the outcome is to be. What is the proposed plan? Is evil Obama sending people around to pick up your guns or are there plans for everyone to meet up in the local Wal-Mart parking lot to turn them in?

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[Skyrad 0]

Piers is that you old chap?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[regulator 0]

If you want to thank someone thank Billvon. He actually interjects good thought processes. I have now determined that you are a complete tool the way you seem to love licking the backside of kellend so much. Does he pay you to make PSA's for him since nobody else other than you and andy908 seem to agree with him?

[RMK 3]

Quote

If you want to thank someone thank Billvon. He actually interjects good thought processes.

I meant to, but had already hit the enter button. Billvon is a voice or reason on many threads.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[RMK 3]

I’ve lived in both the US and UK. In London, I’ve never once thought about someone pulling a gun on me. In my early twenties, in the US, I had someone try to carjack me with a handgun on busy on street??

Re the “London vs Chicago” thread, I lived in Chicago for five years and remember late one afternoon walking across an intersection north of the loop and a truck backfired nearby. About six guys around me hit the ground thinking the noise was a gunshot - do you really want to live somewhere where you think a loud noise is someone shooting at you ... or dress small schoolchildren in bullet-proof backpacks to go to school?

No matter what your views, there is definitely something wrong

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[regulator 0]

YAWN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdUSpiC8MsU

Wake me up when youve said something relevant. Because your life experiences dont mean SHIT to my constitutional rights to defend myself. Your predictability is straight up BORING.

[Skyrad 0]

No doubt there is something wrong but BHOs 23 point plan isn't going to fix it. As for London, I guess you lived in a wealthy area. I grew up in London (Lambeth & Southwark and guns were a constant concern and problem.)

http://www.channel4.com/news/london-gun-crime-figures-worryingly-high

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[wmw999 2,588]

Nothing is going to "fix" it. That doesn't necessarily mean that nothing should be done.

Nothing will eradicate cancer, but we still fight it.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Skyrad 0]

If he was serious he'd clamp down on hand guns in the hands on gang bangers not semi auto longs.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[davjohns 1]

"A special thank you goes out to Kallend who keeps the party going by tirelessly interjecting some intelligence & reason into the discussions."

I stopped reading at this point. The tears of laughter streaming down my face me it too hard to read. Thanks for that.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[skypuppy 1]

Quote

If he was serious he'd clamp down on hand guns in the hands on gang bangers not semi auto longs.

bingo.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[regulator 0]

Heres a grand idea...go after all the ILLEGAL guns...starting in chicago. Yet all I hear about is MY civil liberties being possibly forfeited but we have to protect the liberties of criminals. FUCK THAT.

[wmw999 2,588]

How do you clamp down on guns in the hands of gang bangers without abrogating their civil rights? How do you tell a gang banger? "You just know" really doesn't work.

A background check is a good start; requiring a background check before any seized guns are returned are a step in that direction, but it really does go deeper into constitutional rights territory. That's a point worth discussing. But if you start breaking into housing complexes known to harbor gang bangers so that you can search for guns, that's way deep into not-worth-the-price-in-liberty territory.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wmw999 2,588]

Quote

go after all the ILLEGAL guns

Shall we get everyone in Chicago with a gun to bring it in, so that we can run a background check on them and the gun, to make sure it's licensed?

Then, while all those guns are accounted for, how do we get the rest?

There are too many guns out there, particularly in the hands of people who really don't give a shit about others in their or others' communities.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[regulator 0]

I thought you debated for fun.

You mention that we have to do something but when criminals are brought up thats out of line.

You mention over and over again that we have to do something!...yet when it involves anything other than infinging on law abiding citizens...oh well we can do that!

if we have to give up some civil liberties because of this current bullshit legislation then criminals sure as fuck should TOO!

this isnt a one way street.

[wmw999 2,588]

Have I ever come out in favor of any search-and-seizure action when it comes to gun violence?

You have to look out one or two consequences, or up one or two necessary actions, before evaluating a way to fix a problem. Because if a necessary precursor to a suggested solution is illegal, then you have to either find a different way to do it, or just give up on that solution.

How do we legally tell the gangbangers from honest citizens?"

Maybe one thing would be to, whenever someone is convicted of a felony, their entire household loses all of the guns; immediately upon arrest, all guns are seized (this would take a massive fight over 4th amendment search and seizure rights). If the person is convicted (however many years later after lawyers delay the trial), then the guns stay out of circulation. If the person is judged innocent or charges are dropped, then the guns are returned.

This might impact other members of the household, who aren't in the least guilty of any crime. Do you see that as an acceptable consequence?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[toolbox 0]

my sides hurt

[regulator 0]

How do we legally tell the gangbangers from honest citizens?"

Maybe one thing would be to, whenever someone is convicted of a felony, their entire household loses all of the guns; immediately upon arrest, all guns are seized (this would take a massive fight over 4th amendment search and seizure rights). If the person is convicted (however many years later after lawyers delay the trial), then the guns stay out of circulation. If the person is judged innocent or charges are dropped, then the guns are returned.

Now were finally getting somewhere.

[RMK 3]

Quote

How do we legally tell the gangbangers from honest citizens?"

They wear certain colours and make funny hand signals which identify them as to which gang they’re from.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[wmw999 2,588]

What if the accused crime is embezzlement, something not gun-related?

Regardless, the shitstorm that would be started over such a law would be impressive. Right now there are controls over search and seizure by police, even after a warrant, and plenty of evidence is thrown on based on illegal searches and seizures.

No new statute like that would ever have all of its gun removals stand up in court; it would certainly leave guns in the homes of rich people who can afford lawyers, and remove them disproportionately from poor people who can't. That applies to nearly anything having to do wtih the law, however.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[regulator 0]

But while youre at it...is this perp is a KNOWN gangbanger then why is to off base to have a database of these people...including pictures of all of their various gang tattoos and street names. Then during questioning if they give up any of their other gang members they be included on the list too. This wouldnt violate anyones civil liberties, but if someone on the list kills someone else they could know where they hang out and could get them (possibly) easier than without the list.

[regulator 0]

Quote

I’ve lived in both the US and UK. In London, I’ve never once thought about someone pulling a gun on me. In my early twenties, in the US, I had someone try to carjack me with a handgun on busy on street??

Re the “London vs Chicago” thread, I lived in Chicago for five years and remember late one afternoon walking across an intersection north of the loop and a truck backfired nearby. About six guys around me hit the ground thinking the noise was a gunshot - do you really want to live somewhere where you think a loud noise is someone shooting at you ... or dress small schoolchildren in bullet-proof backpacks to go to school?

No matter what your views, there is definitely something wrong

you do realize you responded to yourself on this right? Therefore you DONT BELEIVE IN YOUR OWN BELIEFS. Maybe you do swap underwear with the professor after all.

[wmw999 2,588]

It's not too off-base. There are databases of criminals, based on their convictions, and even those that have been arrested.

If they've been convicted of a felony, they're not allowed to own guns regardless (even if the felony was something that a Bubba, and not a gang-banger, did). If they've been judged innocent, then their second amendment rights should be as inviolate as yours and mine.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

But while youre at it...is this perp is a KNOWN gangbanger then why is to off base to have a database of these people...including pictures of all of their various gang tattoos and street names. Then during questioning if they give up any of their other gang members they be included on the list too. This wouldnt violate anyones civil liberties, but if someone on the list kills someone else they could know where they hang out and could get them (possibly) easier than without the list.

Make it illegal to be a member of a gang anyone who is a member of a gang is therefore a criminal has their right to firearms removed, anyone leaving a gang has to wait five or ten years before they can reapply for a licence to purchase a firearm. If found in possession of a firearm while banned give them an automatic ten stretch.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[RMK 3]

Speaking of rednecks reminded me of this story of a gun mishap:

...Two local men were seriously injured when their pickup truck left the road and struck a tree near Cotton Patch on state Highway 38 early Monday morning. Woodruff County Deputy Dovey Snyder reported the accident shortly after midnight Monday. Thurston Poole, 33, of Des Arc, and Billy Ray Wallis, 38, of Little Rock, are listed in serious condition at Baptist Medical Center. The accident occurred as the two men were returning to Des Arc after a frog-giggin' trip.

On an overcast Sunday night, Poole's pickup truck's headlights malfunctioned. The two men concluded that the headlight fuse on the older model truck had burned out. A replacement fuse was not available, but Wallis noticed that the .22 caliber bullet from his pistol fit perfectly into the fuse box next to the steering wheel column. Upon inserting the bullet, the headlights again began to operate properly and the two men proceeded on eastbound toward the White River Bridge.

After traveling approximately 20 miles, just before crossing the river, the bullet apparently overheated, discharged and struck Poole in the right testicle. The vehicle swerved sharply to the right, exiting the pavement and striking a tree. Poole suffered only minor cuts and abrasions from the accident but will require surgery to repair the other wound. Wallis sustained a broken clavicle and was treated and released.

"Thank God we weren't on that bridge when Thurston (shot his balls off) or we might have been dead," stated Wallis. "I've been a trooper for 10 years in this part of the world, but this is a first for me. I can't believe that those two would admit how the accident happened," said Snyder.

Upon being notified of the wreck, Lavinia, Poole's wife, asked how many frogs the boys had caught.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"