Tradeoff

[regulator 0]

I was thinking about some of the aspects of possibly having to give up some of my liberties while with the current system in place will let gangs gain affiliation and roam the streets at will. If the possibility of me being disarmed is on the table why are we to sit idly by and let armed thugs carjack and rob people. Sure most of these people are probably not the brightest bulbs in the bunch and get caught, but why cant we enact some legislation to actually make it illegal to BE in a gang to possibly prevent the first criminal contact from happening. Present some difficult choices right off the bat for young children with the possibility of choosing which path to take. And as we can pretty much all see from simply watching the news most of those choices end up being life or death choices. Below is a snippet I cut from wiki:

There were at least 30,000 gangs and 800,000 gang members active across the USA in 2007,[4][5] up from 731,500 in 2002 and 750,000 in 2004.[6] By 1999, Hispanics accounted for 47% of all gang members, Blacks 34%, Whites 13%, and Asians 6%.[7]

Of course our friend [Bill] wants to open the borders and let everyone in and track everyone with a very extensive database using biometric data. I'm not necessarily saying anything about that at this point, but when 47% of the gangs are hispanic this could throw a small wrench in that...which will probably get refuted too. However, I have postulated that the next argument would be to...who would house all of these inmates? Well didn't we see 60 billion doled out for sandy relief? And why couldn't some money like that be diverted to building building new facilities. But instead of a prison where they just sit and do nothing but get pissed off...make it a prison camp ran by armed guards and make them do something.,.like manual labor. I know if I was locked up I'd rather be working with my hands than sticking them up my ass from boredom. Of course this will be considered torture by the liberals...but instead of creating these long sentences where they would be in for 50-60 years getting 6 years out of them and teaching them to work as a team could have a better chance at rehabilitation than being in solitary. Now obviously this wont work for murderers, but in my opinion this could be more viable for actually rehabilitating people instead of teaching them other ways to rob people they didn't think of themselves. Lastly if the media is correct and the fallout of this recent tragedy could result in a knee jerk reaction then some thoughts along this line should be available as well.

I would also like to iterate that when I mention a gang I am directly referring to the following...and many more

KKK
Black Panthers
MS-13
Any italian mafia

ANY GANG

and by gang I mean anyone that engages in organized criminal activity. Any organization that takes the law into their own hands and has no care for someone else's life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_the_United_States

[Andy9o8 2]

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I would also like to iterate

Once again, you left the "L" out.

So sad.

[regulator 0]

YAWN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdUSpiC8MsU

[regulator 0]

Oh I forgot...gang members probably account for a vast majority of your income.

[wmw999 2,584]

How can you prove that someone is a "member" of a gang to a degree that it can be prosecuted? Everyone has the same rights -- even criminals or people who are on that road. Sometimes it's unfortunate, but it sure beats the alternative.

And then, how do you determine which "gangs" are illegal? Is it illegal to be a member even if you're 1000 miles away and never do anything? Is the Aryan Brotherhood as bad as the Black Panthers? Freedom of speech and freedom of association are pretty strong rights in that constitution too.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[regulator 0]

Wendy how can the government still spend a thousand dollars on a monkey wrench and not have the funds to generate a database of criminals? Search algorythms?

[regulator 0]

I don't really see how inaction is going to get anything done. Whats going on right now in regards to gangs...complete and total inaction=Fail.

[wmw999 2,584]

What defines "gang?" What defines "membership?" How do you prosecute it in a way that doesn't allow your kid to be prosecuted for being (in the 8th grade) in something they call the "marauders" where they go walking around and spewing jr. high testosterone around talking like idiots? (which 8th graders just do).

Remember that everyone is innocent until proven guilty of actually doing something, not just by association? Guilt by association works for reputation, but doesn't put people into jail. It takes behavior for that. Otherwise many Italian-ancestry kids in NYC in the 40's and 50's would be guilty, because it was very common for some big local Mafia guy to be the godfather. A college friend's mother's godfather was Carlo Gambino. But, well, so were most of her mother's classmates at Catholic school.

It takes judgment, and if we leave it up to individual judgment, then we end up with corrupt individuals exerting poor judgment.

No, the current situation isn't great. It might just be better than the alternatives, though. Because while no one is perfectly safe, they never, ever were in the past, either.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[regulator 0]

I keep hearing about the liberties of criminals yet in chicago there were 500 murders in 2012. From the sound of it most of these were gang related. So why is it so far off base to create a database of these gangs to track their activity?

What about the liberties of the people who weren't in gangs yet got murdered anyway?

What about their liberties?

[Arvoitus 1]

I don't know what the exact definition of guilt by association is but I'm pretty sure its being done already. I have a friend who is in HA and when tried to go skydiving in states he was denied access. As soon as he stepped off the plane and one of the border control agents saw his tattoo's he was taken in custody and put on the next flight back home.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Oh I forgot...gang members probably account for a vast majority of your income.

Banks & insurance companies? You betcha.

[skypuppy 1]

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What defines "gang?" What defines "membership?" How do you prosecute it in a way that doesn't allow your kid to be prosecuted for being (in the 8th grade) in something they call the "marauders" where they go walking around and spewing jr. high testosterone around talking like idiots? (which 8th graders just do).

Remember that everyone is innocent until proven guilty of actually doing something, not just by association? Guilt by association works for reputation, but doesn't put people into jail. It takes behavior for that. Otherwise many Italian-ancestry kids in NYC in the 40's and 50's would be guilty, because it was very common for some big local Mafia guy to be the godfather. A college friend's mother's godfather was Carlo Gambino. But, well, so were most of her mother's classmates at Catholic school.

It takes judgment, and if we leave it up to individual judgment, then we end up with corrupt individuals exerting poor judgment.

No, the current situation isn't great. It might just be better than the alternatives, though. Because while no one is perfectly safe, they never, ever were in the past, either.

Wendy P.

some of the motorcycle gangs have been deemed to be 'criminal organizations' up here in canada and some of their possessions (vehicles, clubhouses) have been confiscated because of it. And some members have been harassed and prosecuted just for being members of a criminal organization.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone