brenthutch 444 #1 January 4, 2013 Not a happy way to start the year if you are a warmist. http://www.earth-syst-dynam-discuss.net/3/561/2012/esdd-3-561-2012.html "Therefore, greenhouse gas forcing, aerosols, solar irradiance and global temperature are not polynomially cointegrated. This implies that recent global warming is not statistically significantly related to anthropogenic forcing." Before you reply and embarrass yourself, bone up on the scientific method. Pay close attention after the four minute mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYPapE-3FRw Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #2 January 4, 2013 ======================== Climate: another year of living dangerously The signals could hardly be clearer: climate change is on the way, driven largely by the burning of fossil fuels and other human activity The Guardian, Monday 31 December 2012 14.43 EST This coming year, according to the Met Office, could be one of the warmest ever. This forecast is the latest in a cascade of ominous observations. Just in the last month US scientists warned that West Antarctica was warming twice as fast as expected, and three times faster than the average for the planet as a whole; and the European Space Agency revealed that snow cover in Europe and Asia in June had been the lowest since satellite observations began 45 years ago. It has been a year of extremes, in which the Arctic summer sea ice fell to its lowest ever; in which the 48 contiguous states of the US experienced the hottest ever temperatures and protracted drought; in which wildfires in the tundra darkened snow over Greenland and precipitated melting at an unprecedented rate. The largest Atlantic hurricane on record crippled New York, while Britain, which began the year with one of the driest winters on record, then experienced what for some counties proved to be the wettest year ever. ========================= Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #3 January 4, 2013 Again, bill, you have the knowledge to yourself point out the holes in your post. Hint - "This forecast is the latest in a cascade of ominous observations." My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #4 January 4, 2013 Quote======================== Climate: another year of living dangerously The signals could hardly be clearer: climate change is on the way, driven largely by the burning of fossil fuels and other human activity The Guardian, Monday 31 December 2012 14.43 EST This coming year, according to the Met Office, could be one of the warmest ever. This forecast is the latest in a cascade of ominous observations. Just in the last month US scientists warned that West Antarctica was warming twice as fast as expected, and three times faster than the average for the planet as a whole; and the European Space Agency revealed that snow cover in Europe and Asia in June had been the lowest since satellite observations began 45 years ago. It has been a year of extremes, in which the Arctic summer sea ice fell to its lowest ever; in which the 48 contiguous states of the US experienced the hottest ever temperatures and protracted drought; in which wildfires in the tundra darkened snow over Greenland and precipitated melting at an unprecedented rate. The largest Atlantic hurricane on record crippled New York, while Britain, which began the year with one of the driest winters on record, then experienced what for some counties proved to be the wettest year ever. ========================= Could be? One of? Lowest sea ice EVER? Hottest EVER? Unprecedented rate? Largest Atlantic hurricane on record? and my favorite, the dreaded Floodrought. You obviously ignored my admonition to not embarrass yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #5 January 4, 2013 Quote Could be? One of? Lowest sea ice EVER? Hottest EVER? Unprecedented rate? Largest Atlantic hurricane on record? and my favorite is the dreaded Floodrought. You obviously ignored my admonition to not embarrass yourself. Well, this has set the groundwork for a productive conversation.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #6 January 4, 2013 QuoteWell, this has set the groundwork for a productive conversation. Surprised given the posters history?Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #7 January 4, 2013 QuoteQuoteWell, this has set the groundwork for a productive conversation. Surprised given the posters history? Not particularly. Not even after he said this only a month or so ago: We are not (or should not) be playing Cowboys and Indians. The whole idea behind a forum is to debate and convince others. We should all be given the space to change our minds.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #8 January 4, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteWell, this has set the groundwork for a productive conversation. Surprised given the posters history? Not particularly. Not even after he said this only a month or so ago: We are not (or should not) be playing Cowboys and Indians. The whole idea behind a forum is to debate and convince others. We should all be given the space to change our minds. That is why I posted the warning. I can't help it if one chooses to ignore it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #9 January 4, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWell, this has set the groundwork for a productive conversation. Surprised given the posters history? Not particularly. Not even after he said this only a month or so ago: We are not (or should not) be playing Cowboys and Indians. The whole idea behind a forum is to debate and convince others. We should all be given the space to change our minds. That is why I posted the warning. I can't help it if one chooses to ignore it. So there was no way that you could have explained to Bill why you thought his objection was unfounded and attempted to bring him around to your point of view? Or perhaps you meant that we shouldn't be playing Cowboys and Indians unless we state in advance that we only want to hear from people that agree with us?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #10 January 4, 2013 QuoteQuoteWell, this has set the groundwork for a productive conversation. Surprised given the posters history? Wait a second......I post a link to a peer reviewed study from an earth science Journal, I include a link to a lecture on the scientific method and urge people to view it before replying to my post. The first response is error filled tripe from a tabloid, and I ?!?! am the bad guy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ayevee8toryear 0 #11 January 4, 2013 Do any of you consider the use of weather weapons or manipulation? These actions were banned under the Geneva convention decades ago... Mainly palmed off as conspiracy theories, weather manipulation is real and is seldom discussed in such topics. Why? There is certainly some funky weather going on, but I doubt taxing carbon will have any significant reduction. We are all carbon based life forms. It is not a poison? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #12 January 4, 2013 Quote Quote Quote Well, this has set the groundwork for a productive conversation. Surprised given the posters history? Wait a second......I post a link to a peer reviewed study from an earth science Journal, I include a link to a lecture on the scientific method and urge people to view it before replying to my post. The first response is error filled tripe from a tabloid, and I ?!?! am the bad guy? Your response is factually incorrect. And yes.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #13 January 4, 2013 QuoteDo any of you consider the use of weather weapons or manipulation? No, not really. QuoteWe are all carbon based life forms. It is not a poison? Let's see, we're made of carbon and we need oxygen to live... does that mean that carbon monoxide is good for us?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #14 January 4, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWell, this has set the groundwork for a productive conversation. Surprised given the posters history? Wait a second......I post a link to a peer reviewed study from an earth science Journal, I include a link to a lecture on the scientific method and urge people to view it before replying to my post. The first response is error filled tripe from a tabloid, and I ?!?! am the bad guy? Your response is factually incorrect. Only because I was quoting from the article that was in response to my post. Floodrought not withstanding. Look closely at Bills post and you will see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,596 #15 January 4, 2013 QuoteOnly because I was quoting from the article that was in response to my post. Floodrought not withstanding. Look closely at Bills post and you will see. I meant your latest response. And none of your protests have yet contained any reason not to hold yourself to the same standards you expect from others.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #16 January 4, 2013 QuoteQuoteWell, this has set the groundwork for a productive conversation. Surprised given the posters history? Is is history a surprise given the responces he gets?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #17 January 4, 2013 ======================== Climate change Rain shifts bear human fingerprint Nature 12 December 2012 Summer rainfall patterns in the Southern Hemisphere have changed markedly in response to rising greenhouse-gas concentrations and ozone-layer depletion, both caused by human activity. Since the 1960s, southern regions at mid-latitudes have become drier whereas a zone around Antarctica has grown wetter. John Fyfe at the Canadian Centre for Climate Modelling and Analysis in Victoria, British Columbia, and his colleagues found that the observed trends agree with predicted precipitation patterns obtained from a set of 29 climate models. They found that greenhouse gases and ozone changes were primarily responsible for the shifts in precipitation levels. Moreover, natural climate variability cannot explain the observed and modelled trends, the team found. =========================== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #18 January 4, 2013 And none of your protests have yet contained any reason not to hold yourself to the same standards you expect from others. Like you hold yourself too? "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brenthutch 444 #19 January 4, 2013 Sorry, I just looked at your profile. Didn't mean to offend, I understand that our British cousins like tripe, I should have just said BS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ayevee8toryear 0 #20 January 4, 2013 QuoteNo, not really. Ok so you obviously have spent plenty of time thinking about the subject, and you have not considered weather manipulation? It is on the record that the HAARP facility manipulates the ionosphere. This is believed to change the jet streams and in turn change the weather on our planet. Ignoring this and continuing your debate on the subject would be silly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywPf0Z6vkR0 You could have an opinion that it is just a conspiracy theory? But changing the ionosphere at all could affect the weather. Nobody has the capacity to say it definitely couldn't. I am unsure either way but anything is possible and any benefits of such technology are far out weighed by the potential ramifications. Playing god is not a very good idea. QuoteLet's see, we're made of carbon and we need oxygen to live... does that mean that carbon monoxide is good for us? No stupid, carbon is good, oxygen is good, carbon monoxide is no good. If you produce carbon = good, if you produce oxygen = good but if you produce carbon monoxide = not good. Pretty darned simple? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #21 January 4, 2013 QuoteMoreover, natural climate variability cannot explain the observed and modelled trends Land use can, though. Deforestation has a tendency to decrease precipitation. It's actually a pretty well-known phenomenon. I wonder why they didn't mention it. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #22 January 4, 2013 >Land use can, though. It can certainly affect climate through: -changes in albedo -changes in CO2 concentration (loss of plants, increase in animal life etc) -changes in methane concentration (rotting plants and bog gas release) However alone it does not explain the changes we've seen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #23 January 4, 2013 Nothing alone explains the changes. CO2 alone doesn't. CO2 and ozone do not themselves account. Ozone sure has made a jump in popularity these last few months. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brenthutch 444 #24 January 4, 2013 Quote>Land use can, though. It can certainly affect climate through: -changes in albedo -changes in CO2 concentration (loss of plants, increase in animal life etc) -changes in methane concentration (rotting plants and bog gas release) However alone it does not explain the changes we've seen. Perhaps not, we can now, rule out man-made co2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,596 #25 January 4, 2013 Quote And none of your protests have yet contained any reason not to hold yourself to the same standards you expect from others. Like you hold yourself too? Nope. My only standard is to do what you demand of others. The only reason I care whether he's rude or polite, rational or confrontational is that he's told other people they should behave in a better fashion than him.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #15 January 4, 2013 QuoteOnly because I was quoting from the article that was in response to my post. Floodrought not withstanding. Look closely at Bills post and you will see. I meant your latest response. And none of your protests have yet contained any reason not to hold yourself to the same standards you expect from others.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #16 January 4, 2013 QuoteQuoteWell, this has set the groundwork for a productive conversation. Surprised given the posters history? Is is history a surprise given the responces he gets?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #17 January 4, 2013 ======================== Climate change Rain shifts bear human fingerprint Nature 12 December 2012 Summer rainfall patterns in the Southern Hemisphere have changed markedly in response to rising greenhouse-gas concentrations and ozone-layer depletion, both caused by human activity. Since the 1960s, southern regions at mid-latitudes have become drier whereas a zone around Antarctica has grown wetter. John Fyfe at the Canadian Centre for Climate Modelling and Analysis in Victoria, British Columbia, and his colleagues found that the observed trends agree with predicted precipitation patterns obtained from a set of 29 climate models. They found that greenhouse gases and ozone changes were primarily responsible for the shifts in precipitation levels. Moreover, natural climate variability cannot explain the observed and modelled trends, the team found. =========================== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #18 January 4, 2013 And none of your protests have yet contained any reason not to hold yourself to the same standards you expect from others. Like you hold yourself too? "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #19 January 4, 2013 Sorry, I just looked at your profile. Didn't mean to offend, I understand that our British cousins like tripe, I should have just said BS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ayevee8toryear 0 #20 January 4, 2013 QuoteNo, not really. Ok so you obviously have spent plenty of time thinking about the subject, and you have not considered weather manipulation? It is on the record that the HAARP facility manipulates the ionosphere. This is believed to change the jet streams and in turn change the weather on our planet. Ignoring this and continuing your debate on the subject would be silly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywPf0Z6vkR0 You could have an opinion that it is just a conspiracy theory? But changing the ionosphere at all could affect the weather. Nobody has the capacity to say it definitely couldn't. I am unsure either way but anything is possible and any benefits of such technology are far out weighed by the potential ramifications. Playing god is not a very good idea. QuoteLet's see, we're made of carbon and we need oxygen to live... does that mean that carbon monoxide is good for us? No stupid, carbon is good, oxygen is good, carbon monoxide is no good. If you produce carbon = good, if you produce oxygen = good but if you produce carbon monoxide = not good. Pretty darned simple? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #21 January 4, 2013 QuoteMoreover, natural climate variability cannot explain the observed and modelled trends Land use can, though. Deforestation has a tendency to decrease precipitation. It's actually a pretty well-known phenomenon. I wonder why they didn't mention it. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #22 January 4, 2013 >Land use can, though. It can certainly affect climate through: -changes in albedo -changes in CO2 concentration (loss of plants, increase in animal life etc) -changes in methane concentration (rotting plants and bog gas release) However alone it does not explain the changes we've seen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #23 January 4, 2013 Nothing alone explains the changes. CO2 alone doesn't. CO2 and ozone do not themselves account. Ozone sure has made a jump in popularity these last few months. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #24 January 4, 2013 Quote>Land use can, though. It can certainly affect climate through: -changes in albedo -changes in CO2 concentration (loss of plants, increase in animal life etc) -changes in methane concentration (rotting plants and bog gas release) However alone it does not explain the changes we've seen. Perhaps not, we can now, rule out man-made co2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #25 January 4, 2013 Quote And none of your protests have yet contained any reason not to hold yourself to the same standards you expect from others. Like you hold yourself too? Nope. My only standard is to do what you demand of others. The only reason I care whether he's rude or polite, rational or confrontational is that he's told other people they should behave in a better fashion than him.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
