Just to be clear

[muff528 3]

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every new generation has less and less respect.

Egads, I wish people would stop using that tired, old cliche; it adds no value to a discussion.

And it's thousands of years old, you know. For example:

"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”

Plato, ca. +/- 340 B.C.

Interestingly enough, this Plato fellow didn't mention the crappy music the kids were playing too loudly. You'd think it would have shaken the 27-inchers off of their chariots.

[jakee 1,594]

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A dozen more killers? A hundred? More? How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nation's refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill?

Wayne LaPierrie

Unfortunately the man is at odds with his constituency, because I've heard that gun owners don't trust Politicians to simply create a database whose sole purpose is to prevent crazies from getting guns.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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...The reason for my Pity is the fact The majority can or will not or are able to walk about Without the Deepest Fear, that they need a Firearm for protection. Its a sad indictment of the way America is heading...

What makes you think that?

Really, the "majority of Americans"?
Carry permit issue numbers usually run around 2% or so (at least in the "Shall Issue" states). And many (most?) permit holders don't carry all the time.

And even those that do don't live in the "Deepest fear", at least not those that I know.

They are more the same sort of peope that have a fire extinguisher handy.
They don't live in the "Deepest Fear" of a fire, they just know that if a fire breaks out, it needs to be stopped as soon as possible, before it grows out of control. And that a fire extinguisher is the best way to do that.

Similarly, the gun that they carry is for the remote chance that they will face a serious threat. If you read through the "Did you ever need to use a gun" thread, you will see that those people weren't looking for trouble, or living in the deepest fear of it. They were just going about their daily business and they found themselves in a situation that dictated that they respond with a gun.

And most of those situations would have turned out far, far worse had they not had a gun (or in one case, a knife).

Even most cops, who carry every day of their professional lives, never need to shoot at anyone.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[muff528 3]

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A dozen more killers? A hundred? More? How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nation's refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill?

Wayne LaPierrie

Unfortunately the man is at odds with his constituency, because I've heard that gun owners don't trust Politicians to simply create a database whose sole purpose is to prevent crazies from getting guns.

"Sole" is the key word here. If we are going to have a list of crazy people it should be used for more than just denying 2nd Amendment rights. It could/should also be available to the DMV, elections officials, employers, armed services, social clubs, law enforcement, TSA, community organizers, theme parks, homeowners' associations, etc. Those folks need to make informed decisions, too. Might also be useful to someone thinking about getting hitched.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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A dozen more killers? A hundred? More? How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nation's refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill?

Wayne LaPierrie

Unfortunately the man is at odds with his constituency, because I've heard that gun owners don't trust Politicians to simply create a database whose sole purpose is to prevent crazies from getting guns.

Gosh, you mean every NRA member doesn't agree with the Director? Of course your stupid statement has been refuted.

[kallend 2,146]

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.......
The law is toothless, and was deliberately made toothless courtesy of the gun lobby and people like you.

How did the law fail in the Sandy Hook case? Mom bought the guns legally. Lanza was crazy.

Unfortunately Sandy Hook is not an isolated case of a crazy person committing murder with a gun. Not even this month. Your question is, therefore, not really relevant to the general discussion.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[muff528 3]

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The law is toothless, and was deliberately made toothless courtesy of the gun lobby and people like you.

How did the law fail in the Sandy Hook case? Mom bought the guns legally. Lanza was crazy.

Unfortunately Sandy Hook is not an isolated case of a crazy person committing murder with a gun. Not even this month. Your question is, therefore, not really relevant to the general discussion.

Fair enough ....but that question and the other 7 questions in that post are directly relevant to your "toothless" comment if not the "general" discussion. Specifically, what provisions (or lack thereof) in gun laws (relating to crazies having access to guns) were influenced by the NRA or the "gun lobby" in a deliberate effort to cause the laws to be ineffectual?

ETA- and what specific provisions can be added to ensure crazies don't have access?

[skypuppy 1]

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Yes that's True mate .

To be honest i feel really sorry for Americans and people living there. A society that holds its self as a foremost and civilised society but fails to deal with the issue in a constructive and decisive way ! .

The reason for my Pity is the fact The majority can or will not or are able to walk about Without the Deepest Fear, that they need a Firearm for protection. Its a sad indictment of the way America is heading. The response from the NRA was typical and is of no surprise to people outside the states after Sandy Hook, most don't expect anything to change up till the next mass shooting .

Some one mentioned that he didn't buy the firearm, true he did not. He stole them from his mother and killed her with them . I would guess a fair number of illegal guns kicking about where stolen from registered owners.

Everyone keeps harping on about the 2nd amendment, please grow up. Laws from that time may have been appropriate then but not Know. As societies change then the laws need updating to match the current issues that society faces. When it was developed i doubt that single shot flintlock was as much a problem as today's Guns. For some reason god only Knows, Americans have a chip on their shoulder about changes for the better of all than just the few !. Climb out of the dark ages, as the guns in use are more lethal.So your laws need updating to match current events.

Would a complete ban work ! who knows as it will not happen, it may be a case that you have went to far down that road to ban outright. Tighter control for carrying and storage ? possibly better background checks maybe.

Some people due to the nature of the countryside have a legitimate claim to carry hunting rifles like Farmers, or people living in remote areas, that I can understand.

This does not effect me as i do not live in the states this is just my views. As i say I feel sorrow for what Happened at Sandy Hook.

Some of the rhetoric is of no surprise and quite frankly pathetic from educated people. After Sandy hook and Americans should be ashamed of it. I don't come in here Often as the Bile is a bit to much for me to stomach

Best of luck to the American people, i really hope you come up with a answer to the problem.

yep. never had an incident anywhere outside the states, I guess. the fact is, a lot of people who were living in countries outside the states might still be alive if they or someone else around them had had firearms on them when they were needed....

as far as your feeling pity for americans, I'm sure they're not losing too much sleep over your feelings...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[skypuppy 1]

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A dozen more killers? A hundred? More? How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nation's refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill?

Wayne LaPierrie

Unfortunately the man is at odds with his constituency, because I've heard that gun owners don't trust Politicians to simply create a database whose sole purpose is to prevent crazies from getting guns.

"Sole" is the key word here. If we are going to have a list of crazy people it should be used for more than just denying 2nd Amendment rights. It could/should also be available to the DMV, elections officials, employers, armed services, social clubs, law enforcement, TSA, community organizers, theme parks, homeowners' associations, etc. Those folks need to make informed decisions, too. Might also be useful to someone thinking about getting hitched.

and of course, the progressives will argue against such a list because it is an invasion of privacy and might lead to discrimination of the mental challenged.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[kallend 2,146]

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A dozen more killers? A hundred? More? How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nation's refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill?

Wayne LaPierrie

Unfortunately the man is at odds with his constituency, because I've heard that gun owners don't trust Politicians to simply create a database whose sole purpose is to prevent crazies from getting guns.

"Sole" is the key word here. If we are going to have a list of crazy people it should be used for more than just denying 2nd Amendment rights. It could/should also be available to the DMV, elections officials, employers, armed services, social clubs, law enforcement, TSA, community organizers, theme parks, homeowners' associations, etc. Those folks need to make informed decisions, too. Might also be useful to someone thinking about getting hitched.

and of course, the progressives will argue against such a list because it is an invasion of privacy and might lead to discrimination of the mental challenged.

Yet another lame excuse for doing nothing.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,594]

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Gosh, you mean every NRA member doesn't agree with the Director? Of course your stupid statement has been refuted.

Well I guess you're right then.

Pro-gun organisations are pushing for greater restrictions on gun ownership but the damned liberal anti-gunners won't let it happen.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

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I believe you stopped short on handing out credit for weakening the laws keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. You forgot the ACLU, the feds(HIPA) and whiney little leftist liberals (like you) that are more concerned with the rights of crazy people than their victims. I doubt you will find many gun rights groups that are interested in seeing nut jobs have firearms. It is against their best interest. Every time someone commits one of these horrible crimes, gun owners have to contend with jackals like Schumer and Feinstein, who would cheerfully kick the victims corpses out of the way to get in front of a camera to further their agenda. Gun owners are the ones that will have to suffer the effects of any new law, not the criminals or crazies. So why would anyone in their right mind think that gun owners would want crazy people to have guns?

+1

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Great, let's pass a law that bans crazy people from purchasing or stealing guns.

I believe we have one. It's just toothless courtesy of the gun lobby and people like you.

Whose job is it to enforce the laws?

Here's a hint: it's not the NRA.

The law is toothless, and was deliberately made toothless courtesy of the gun lobby and people like you.

Explain how.

(here comes the wriggle)

Is the NICS check required of all transfers? Are the data kept in a database for future reference?

Did the gun lobby oppose the bill to require background checks of private sales at gun shows in Minnesota?

Here's a hint.

Here is a glimpse into your mentality concerning guns

Keep records

And you say you dont support a ban. As I have stated before I dont believe you

Now I think you support taking the ones that already exist
There is no other reason to keep records like those you just posted of

No wonder you dance around questions and avoid direct answers

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Yes that's True mate .

To be honest i feel really sorry for Americans and people living there. A society that holds its self as a foremost and civilised society but fails to deal with the issue in a constructive and decisive way ! .

The reason for my Pity is the fact The majority can or will not or are able to walk about Without the Deepest Fear, that they need a Firearm for protection. Its a sad indictment of the way America is heading. The response from the NRA was typical and is of no surprise to people outside the states after Sandy Hook, most don't expect anything to change up till the next mass shooting .

Some one mentioned that he didn't buy the firearm, true he did not. He stole them from his mother and killed her with them . I would guess a fair number of illegal guns kicking about where stolen from registered owners.

Everyone keeps harping on about the 2nd amendment, please grow up. Laws from that time may have been appropriate then but not Know. As societies change then the laws need updating to match the current issues that society faces. When it was developed i doubt that single shot flintlock was as much a problem as today's Guns. For some reason god only Knows, Americans have a chip on their shoulder about changes for the better of all than just the few !. Climb out of the dark ages, as the guns in use are more lethal.So your laws need updating to match current events.

Would a complete ban work ! who knows as it will not happen, it may be a case that you have went to far down that road to ban outright. Tighter control for carrying and storage ? possibly better background checks maybe.

Some people due to the nature of the countryside have a legitimate claim to carry hunting rifles like Farmers, or people living in remote areas, that I can understand.

This does not effect me as i do not live in the states this is just my views. As i say I feel sorrow for what Happened at Sandy Hook.

Some of the rhetoric is of no surprise and quite frankly pathetic from educated people. After Sandy hook and Americans should be ashamed of it. I don't come in here Often as the Bile is a bit to much for me to stomach

Best of luck to the American people, i really hope you come up with a answer to the problem.

you post this as if this problem is so huge that everyone walks in fear

Well my friend, you are doing exactly what the anti gunners like to do (and other libs for that matter) and that is create an emergency to push an agenda

This school shooting is being used as a tool to push a political agenda. And that agenda has less to do with safety than is does with those in government removing freedoms and adding to their own power

If I am wrong, why is protecting our children with armed guards viewed with so much disgust by the left?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Gosh, you mean every NRA member doesn't agree with the Director? Of course your stupid statement has been refuted.

Well I guess you're right then.

Pro-gun organisations are pushing for greater restrictions on gun ownership but the damned liberal anti-gunners won't let it happen.

Clearly the NRA is pushing for a database of the mentally ill. At least LaPierre is. Why do liberals like you always think that an organization like the NRA, which consists of gun owners, who lobby for their 2nd amendment right to protect themselves, all must think as one? I never understood that.

[Andy9o8 2]

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whiney little leftist liberals (like you) ...

jackals like Schumer and Feinstein, who would cheerfully kick the victims corpses out of the way

This is why a conversation is impossible. They're not people you disagree with; they're "whiney little..." and "jackals". Hey, you forgot to call their mothers whores! You might as well; it advances the discussion the same amount.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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whiney little leftist liberals (like you) ...

jackals like Schumer and Feinstein, who would cheerfully kick the victims corpses out of the way

This is why a conversation is impossible. They're not people you disagree with; they're "whiney little..." and "jackals". Hey, you forgot to call their mothers whores! You might as well; it advances the discussion the same amount.

Truth hurts, doesn't it?

[sfzombie 3]

if you're looking for a lame excuse for doing nothing, look no further than the dual party system in place in this country. i read an article in a magazine once, not too long ago, where 5 former elected official came together and created a balanced budget in 3 days. they didn't touch medicare, social security, or institute tax increases. the only way they did it (they admitted) was that they didn't have to worry about party lines or re-election.

until we can truly put politics aside on the issues that affect all of us, there can be no solution. i see no problems with creating a psychology test, available online, to help weed out unstable people trying to buy guns. if for any reason the test would disqualify an individual, a clean bill of health from a licensed professional could be presented. may need a little work, but it's a start.

http://kitswv.com

[rushmc 23]

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whiney little leftist liberals (like you) ...

jackals like Schumer and Feinstein, who would cheerfully kick the victims corpses out of the way

This is why a conversation is impossible. They're not people you disagree with; they're "whiney little..." and "jackals". Hey, you forgot to call their mothers whores! You might as well; it advances the discussion the same amount.

Funny

You dont complain about Amazon or funjumper

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

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whiney little leftist liberals (like you) ...

jackals like Schumer and Feinstein, who would cheerfully kick the victims corpses out of the way

This is why a conversation is impossible. They're not people you disagree with; they're "whiney little..." and "jackals". Hey, you forgot to call their mothers whores! You might as well; it advances the discussion the same amount.

Funny

You dont complain about Amazon or funjumper

How does it go..."If the facts are on your side, Dershowitz says, pound the facts into the table. If the law is on your side, pound the law into the table. If neither the facts nor the law are on your side, pound the table.

I would say the table is being pounded, here.

[kallend 2,146]

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whiney little leftist liberals (like you) ...

jackals like Schumer and Feinstein, who would cheerfully kick the victims corpses out of the way

This is why a conversation is impossible. They're not people you disagree with; they're "whiney little..." and "jackals". Hey, you forgot to call their mothers whores! You might as well; it advances the discussion the same amount.

Funny

You dont complain about Amazon or funjumper

He doesn't complain about the other 6+ billion people who don't post here either.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Funjumper still posts here. Or was he/she finally banned for good?

[kallend 2,146]

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Funjumper still posts here. Or was he/she finally banned for good?

Dunno, but I can't find any recent posts using the "search" function.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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Funjumper still posts here. Or was he/she finally banned for good?

Dunno, but I can't find any recent posts using the "search" function.

User directory, through the "Who's Online" link. He's around.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results;search_forum=all;search_user_username=funjumper101;sb=post_time;mh=25

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo