Chinese buy US solar company

[brenthutch 444]

It looks like I was right about subsidies for solar companies!

"Chinese firm Waxniang Group won the auction for A123 Systems on Saturday for about $260 million...."I am very concerned by Waxniang's acquisition of A123," said Rep. Bill Huizenga (R-Zeeland). "A123 maintains several contracts with the Department of Defense and given the thin line between Waxniang and the Chinese Government, I am concerned about the Government of China having access to sensitive technologies being used by our military forces."........ It had received $249.1 million in grants from the U.S. government in 2009 to develop green, electric car batteries. It was discovered that the U.S. government gave A123 a $1 million grant the day it filed for bankruptcy......A123 Systems joins a list of other green companies that filed for bankruptcy after receiving government loans and grants. Back in September 2011, solar panel company Solyndra filed for bankruptcy after receiving a $535 million loan from the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE). In November, Beacon Power (maker of flywheels for grid efficiency) filed after receiving a $43 million loan guarantee from DOE in 2010......
In January 2012, EV battery maker Ener1 filed for bankruptcy after its subsidiary, EnerDel, won a $118.5 million grant from DOE in 2009.

[billvon 3,120]

>Chinese firm Waxniang Group won the auction for A123 Systems on Saturday for
>about $260 million

A quarter billion in Chinese money coming in to the US! Can't have that. Next thing you know they'll be borrowing money from us to buy our technology, and the right wing won't be able to complain about the trade imbalance any more.

[kelpdiver 2]

Brent - it's hard to tell what your complaint here is. (it's usually more effective to pick one, not go shotgun style)

Is it that a Chinese company paid off the federal debt in exchange for technology?

Or because the DoD is one of the customers for these batteries? Therefore...these are top secret batteries? Or the Chinese might delivery units with a remote control disable function?

Or is it just a repeat of your usual rant about R&D funding that fails?

[Arvoitus 1]

No I think its his usual, Green is bad, Coal is good stuff.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[brenthutch 444]

Quote

>Chinese firm Waxniang Group won the auction for A123 Systems on Saturday for
>about $260 million

A quarter billion in Chinese money coming in to the US! Can't have that. Next thing you know they'll be borrowing money from us to buy our technology, and the right wing won't be able to complain about the trade imbalance any more.

No Bill it is even better. They are buying more than a hundred million dollars of unspent stimulus money with the purchase. We borrow money from the Chinese, give it to A123. A123 goes bankrupt, China buys the company, and gets nearly have of it back in unspent stimulus money still in the possession of A123. The best part is that the US tax payer still has to pay that money back to China with interest.

[brenthutch 444]

Quote

Brent - it's hard to tell what your complaint here is. (it's usually more effective to pick one, not go shotgun style)

Is it that a Chinese company paid off the federal debt in exchange for technology?

Or because the DoD is one of the customers for these batteries? Therefore...these are top secret batteries? Or the Chinese might delivery units with a remote control disable function?

Or is it just a repeat of your usual rant about R&D funding that fails?

It is proof that solar power boondoggles are a waste of tax payer money. A sort of "I told you so" if you will.

[GeorgiaDon 380]

Quote

It is proof that solar power boondoggles are a waste of tax payer money. A sort of "I told you so" if you will.

My great-grandfather used to have a hay business, back in the day when milk and ice were still delivered by horse-drawn cart. He thought those new-fangled "automobiles" were a passing fad that would never replace horses, except for the rich people. He stuck with that until he went bankrupt.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[brenthutch 444]

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Quote

It is proof that solar power boondoggles are a waste of tax payer money. A sort of "I told you so" if you will.

My great-grandfather used to have a hay business, back in the day when milk and ice were still delivered by horse-drawn cart. He thought those new-fangled "automobiles" were a passing fad that would never replace horses, except for the rich people. He stuck with that until he went bankrupt.

Don

Wow, what a coincidence! My great-grandfather lost his entire fortune when he invested in flying cars, that everyone would be driving/flying by the mid 1950's. Oh and did I mention the millions my great uncle squandered on stock in Tesla coils.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

No Bill it is even better. They are buying more than a hundred million dollars of unspent stimulus money with the purchase. We borrow money from the Chinese, give it to A123. A123 goes bankrupt, China buys the company, and gets nearly have of it back in unspent stimulus money still in the possession of A123. The best part is that the US tax payer still has to pay that money back to China with interest.

So the Chinese spent $260M in order to get $100M in cash assets, you're saying? In what method of accounting is this a win for them, and a loss for the taxpayer? And obviously there's no interest to pay back...we have the entire principle.

FFS, this is a really stupid argument, Brent.

[billvon 3,120]

>They are buying more than a hundred million dollars of unspent stimulus money with the purchase.

Perhaps they'll send a plane over to pick up the pallets of stimulus money I am sure are sitting around their headquarters . . .

You have some funny ideas about how businesses work.

[kelpdiver 2]

Inserting some reality into this nonsense...be careful when removing the foot.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=29396
"A123 Systems Won't Get Rest of Federal Grant if Owned by Chinese Company"

All parties were aware of this.
And Wanxiang never bought the DoD contracts.

[brenthutch 444]

Quote

>They are buying more than a hundred million dollars of unspent stimulus money with the purchase.

Perhaps they'll send a plane over to pick up the pallets of stimulus money I am sure are sitting around their headquarters . . .

You have some funny ideas about how businesses work.

According to you it works like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZr2Pjzg1-8

[kelpdiver 2]

shouldn't you just retreat from this thread already? Been quite a debacle for you.

[brenthutch 444]

Quote

Brent - it's hard to tell what your complaint here is. (it's usually more effective to pick one, not go shotgun style)

Is it that a Chinese company paid off the federal debt in exchange for technology?

Or because the DoD is one of the customers for these batteries? Therefore...these are top secret batteries? Or the Chinese might delivery units with a remote control disable function?

Or is it just a repeat of your usual rant about R&D funding that fails?

I would be all for R&D, not for production of immature technologies.

[brenthutch 444]

Quote

shouldn't you just retreat from this thread already? Been quite a debacle for you.

How so? Aside from some unclear reporting that has yet to be confirmed from a named source, I have been spot on. Bill V and company touted this type of "investment.” You all were caterwauling about how we could not let this "new energy technology opportunity" go to China. I said bad idea. Not only is this company going to China it will be wrapped in a quarter billion dollar bow, courtesy of the US taxpayer. And if you listen to Obama and Grandholm taking 65,000 US jobs with it.

[ryoder 1,590]

Quote

It is proof that solar power boondoggles are a waste of tax payer money. A sort of "I told you so" if you will.

A123 is a battery mfgr, not a solar company.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 3,120]

>A123 is a battery mfgr, not a solar company.

ssshhh, he's on a roll

[GeorgiaDon 380]

Quote

I would be all for R&D, not for production of immature technologies.

So you suggest we only invest in developing technologies that are already fully developed? Doesn't that seem, well... redundant?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[billvon 3,120]

> Bill V and company touted this type of "investment.”

I still do. 96% of them succeeded. Pretty good track record IMO.

What was Bain Capital's success rate, as a comparison?

> You all were caterwauling about how we could not let this "new energy
> technology opportunity" go to China.

?? I think we should sell lots of stuff to China. Better than buying all our stuff from China.

[brenthutch 444]

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>A123 is a battery mfgr, not a solar company.

ssshhh, he's on a roll

A distinction without a difference.

[brenthutch 444]

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Quote

I would be all for R&D, not for production of immature technologies.

So you suggest we only invest in developing technologies that are already fully developed? Doesn't that seem, well... redundant?

Don

We can and should develop technologies; we should not be TRYING TO MASS PRODUCE them before they are developed.

[billvon 3,120]

>We can and should develop technologies; we should not be TRYING TO MASS
>PRODUCE them before they are developed.

So you are arguing that solar-PV and lithium ion batteries are not developed or mass produced.

Interesting.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Quote

shouldn't you just retreat from this thread already? Been quite a debacle for you.

How so? Aside from some unclear reporting that has yet to be confirmed from a named source, I have been spot on. Bill V and company touted this type of "investment.” You all were caterwauling about how we could not let this "new energy technology opportunity" go to China. I said bad idea. Not only is this company going to China it will be wrapped in a quarter billion dollar bow, courtesy of the US taxpayer. And if you listen to Obama and Grandholm taking 65,000 US jobs with it.

I think you skipped the part where you bleated about the Chinese getting free stimulus money and then interest payments on the treasury debt, despite the facts that 1) they don't get any stimulus money and 2) paying $260M for $133M in grants only makes sense for people bad at math, and we know Asians can add.

There was also a reference to a DoD contract, even though the Chinese company didn't acquire that asset.

In short, your entire post is founded on lies or misunderstandings.

[brenthutch 444]

No, just that they are not (demonstrably so) economically viable.

[brenthutch 444]

Quote

Quote

Quote

shouldn't you just retreat from this thread already? Been quite a debacle for you.

How so? Aside from some unclear reporting that has yet to be confirmed from a named source, I have been spot on. Bill V and company touted this type of "investment.” You all were caterwauling about how we could not let this "new energy technology opportunity" go to China. I said bad idea. Not only is this company going to China it will be wrapped in a quarter billion dollar bow, courtesy of the US taxpayer. And if you listen to Obama and Grandholm taking 65,000 US jobs with it.

I think you skipped the part where you bleated about the Chinese getting free stimulus money and then interest payments on the treasury debt, despite the facts that 1) they don't get any stimulus money and 2) paying $260M for $133M in grants only makes sense for people bad at math, and we know Asians can add.

There was also a reference to a DoD contract, even though the Chinese company didn't acquire that asset.

In short, your entire post is founded on lies or misunderstandings.

OK June bug, let me break out my crayons. The Obama administration spent billions of dollars to ""invest" in "new energy" to create tens of thousands of green energy jobs, not in China but right here in the United States, job that cannot be outsourced". Less than two years and billions of tax payer dollars later.......Jobs and technology go to China. Of course you can’t get your brain around this inconvenient truth.