wmw999 2,577 #26 November 7, 2012 Utah has a surplus right now in part because it gets a profit from the federal government. How much would Utah's state taxes have to go up if it got less from the feds? To keep the same spending level, Utah state and municipal level taxes would have to start paying 6.5% more in taxes. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #27 November 7, 2012 QuoteUtah has a surplus right now in part because it gets a profit from the federal government. How much would Utah's state taxes have to go up if it got less from the feds? To keep the same spending level, Utah state and municipal level taxes would have to start paying 6.5% more in taxes. Wendy P. Um no we just finished the freeway so that money you folks are quoting is all spent :) and besides that our leaders plan for the future...why we have a SURPLUS so we can continue to take care of ourselves no matter what comes down the road instead of spending everything that comes in and borrowing more.. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,145 #28 November 7, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>Actually we need to take our half of the country . . . . That might work. By jettisoning the red welfare states we could balance the federal budget almost immediately. Where do you live again? Oh thats right bankrupt california...good luck with that... Utah receiving $1.07 federal funding for every $1.00 it pays in taxes. California, on the other hand, is receiving $0.78 in funding for every dollar it pays in taxes. Difficult math here, but from the perspective of the federal budget, which one contributes more than it costs, and which costs more than it contributes? http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/united-states-federal-tax-dollars/ Blues, Dave :) and we also have a surplus and not a defect :) I might be wrong but I am pretty sure WE are going to be ok....not so positive for some of you though... You only run a surplus because states like California and Illinois are subsidizing you. UTAH makes a profit out of federal welfare.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #29 November 7, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>Actually we need to take our half of the country . . . . That might work. By jettisoning the red welfare states we could balance the federal budget almost immediately. Where do you live again? Oh thats right bankrupt california...good luck with that... Utah receiving $1.07 federal funding for every $1.00 it pays in taxes. California, on the other hand, is receiving $0.78 in funding for every dollar it pays in taxes. Difficult math here, but from the perspective of the federal budget, which one contributes more than it costs, and which costs more than it contributes? http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/united-states-federal-tax-dollars/ Blues, Dave :) and we also have a surplus and not a defect :) I might be wrong but I am pretty sure WE are going to be ok....not so positive for some of you though... You only run a surplus because states like California and Illinois are subsidizing you. UTAH makes a profit out of federal welfare. umm ok we don't have debt we have a surplus. We just finished our freeway. We have businesses and the government building and employing people like crazy with more leaving their states and coming here. And I'm supposed to be upset about????? You sound really envious...Maybe you should elect better leaders in your state... MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,145 #30 November 7, 2012 QuoteMaybe you should elect better leaders in your state... No argument there. However, there is no likely scenario where Illinois would become a federal welfare state like Utah, OK, AL, MS, LA...... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,100 #31 November 7, 2012 >umm ok we don't have debt we have a surplus. You're welcome! >And I'm supposed to be upset about? You shouldn't be envious! You should be thankful that we bankrolled that cool freeway you're crowing about. Ain't it cool when you get to spend other people's money? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,577 #32 November 7, 2012 I think that we learned that the real power in the US is advertising, and that it takes stronger and stronger stimuli to get people's attention and "entertain" them. Which means we can probably expect more of the same. Not sure what the answer is, but I don't really think I like this state of affairs. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #33 November 7, 2012 QuoteQuote Billionaires giving $millions to Karl Rove for attack ads doesn't work. Disagree. Insufficient data (one point). I remember the early years of the George Steinbrenner era; people loudly proclaimed that you couldn't just buy the world series with money. The truth is you can make it a necessary if not sufficient condition. You can bet the next election is not going to be prosecuted with less money. There are a lot more data points than that. In the past 20 years, California has at least 3 examples of very rich people trying to buy themselves a senate seat or the governorship, spending ungodly amounts of personal money. Ultimately, money can only back a message people want to hear. You can shift a couple points with negative stuff, but you can't sell shit. The Yankees actually play on the field...but take a popularity poll outside of New York and see how they rate. A few billionaires contributed a lot of money to key objectives of the GOP and lost all of the races. I'm not sure they'll be so forthcoming in 2016. They didn't get rich making bad investments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #34 November 7, 2012 QuoteI think that we learned that the real power in the US is advertising, and that it takes stronger and stronger stimuli to get people's attention and "entertain" them. Which means we can probably expect more of the same. Not sure what the answer is, but I don't really think I like this state of affairs. there's the real truth of it - nice to see amongst the same old tired stuff in the thread ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,145 #35 November 7, 2012 Quote Oh my GOD!!!! Kallend's a REPUBLICAN! No, if I were a Republican I'd be whining about it. As it is, just pointing the HYPOCRISY of people in states that receive federal welfare who want government out of their lives.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #36 November 7, 2012 Quote IMO Declaring war on women (while claiming that you aren't) doesn't work - women are too smart to be fooled. Pissing off Hispanics doesn't work. Billionaires giving $millions to Karl Rove for attack ads doesn't work. Pandering to your party's extreme wing in order to be nominated, and then having to move back to the center, just shows the electorate how cynical you are. Voters aren't fooled by someone who changes his story 180 degrees according to what he thinks his audience wants to hear. Just shows voters how cynical he is. Claiming that you have a program, but never revealing what it is, doesn't work. (Didn't work for Nixon either.) Voters get pissed off by excessive attack ads. I'd add, The religious right has less relevance in modern politics You can't run a platform of bigotry towards any minority and still win (I'd say that is closely associated with my previous point) The U.S. public in general are pretty smart Even poor people like having healthcare Attacking someone on their record when all the indicators are trending upwards looks a bit silly. Edited to add: One more - saying something a lot does not make it so! (particularly relevant to a few posters here!)Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #37 November 7, 2012 QuoteI think that we learned that the real power in the US is advertising, and that it takes stronger and stronger stimuli to get people's attention and "entertain" them. Which means we can probably expect more of the same. Not sure what the answer is, but I don't really think I like this state of affairs. Wendy P. The answer is simple: short of not watching television altogether (that's me), when there are ads on the television, either channel surf or press the mute button. If you see an intrusive ad, an annoying one, or one that insults your intelligence, remember *not* to spend your money on that company's products or services. For the internet, use an ad blocker. Put your name on the do-not-call list, and write to the Direct Marketing Association so that you don't receive junk mail. This is my approach, and it works quite well for me. If this is done on a much larger scale, I think that would be the answer you're looking for. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,577 #38 November 7, 2012 True, but that's just as realistic as saying that young people just shouldn't have sex. I don't watch a whole lot of TV, and do most of what you're talking about. But the vast majority of people will do what people do, and take the easy way out. The way through is to have something more attractive (short-term, unfortunately) that people want to come to. I'm talking about human nature here, not what the "best" answer is. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #39 November 7, 2012 What I learned: (1) As angry as people say they are, the federal government is status quo. President remained the same and Senate and Congress are controlled same as before; a. The election was choosing the Devil we know over the Devil we don’t (2) There was nothing new from the GOP. They played it safe; a. No – they did not appeal to extremists. They appealed to the center without rebuking the extremists, leaving choice No. 1 (3) Democrats offered nothing new, either. Which is fine if you are in power; and (4) California taught me everything I need to know about the new normal. Prop 30 confirmed that: a. There is nobility, and that nobility is the retired teacher, followed by the active teacher; b. Prop 30 (which increased taxes on the wealthy and sales taxes on everybody) in order to bail out teachers’ pensions (under threat of firing teachers) passed because it only is supposed to touch high-income earners c. Prop 38 (which would have increased income taxes on everybody and directed money to the schools WITHOUT being able to be redirected elsewhere) failed because it meant everybody had a stake in it. (5) Campaigns mean more than substance, which is why substance wasn’t provided; (6) The popular vote is closely split, meaning that this country either as polarized as ever or, what I think, neither candidate could really distinguish himself from the other; a. Meaning no mandate (7) There is no room in the GOP or Democratic party for those who want individual liberty; and (8) The distance to the fiscal cliff is shortening. This is the good part – the sooner we can get to the cliff the better. We won’t choose to avoid an implosion. So let’s just get it over with so we can move on. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #40 November 7, 2012 Quote (6) The popular vote is closely split, meaning that this country either as polarized as ever or, what I think, neither candidate could really distinguish himself from the other; a. Meaning no mandate Quite true. And what I like about 2012 is that this re-elected president has enough class to say in his victory speech that he intends to represent those who didn't vote for him, rather than declaring a mandate with the same kind of razor-thin margin and telling us "I have political capital and I intend to spend it." Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #41 November 7, 2012 He's not working for re-election now. He's working for legacy. So will he be Clinton/Reagan? Or will his legacy be Bush? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #42 November 7, 2012 QuoteSo what did we learn? How many Americans are there? In a country with well over 300 million people and yet less than 120 million bothered to vote? So what did we learn? That the majority of Americans don't give a flying fuck about either party. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #43 November 7, 2012 QuoteIn a country with well over 300 million people and yet less than 120 million bothered to vote? So what did we learn? That the majority of Americans don't give a flying fuck about either party. Your math makes no sense. You are comparing apples to oranges and then drawing conclusions from that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #44 November 7, 2012 QuoteHe's not working for re-election now. He's working for legacy. So will he be Clinton/Reagan? Or will his legacy be Bush? Likely not as esteemed a legacy as those of the former two, and unless he starts an utterly unnecessary war that deepens our deficit, probably not as unfavorable a legacy as GW Bush. If the economy doesn't make a significant recovery, he may go down as a two-term Carter. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 334 #45 November 7, 2012 Drones for everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #46 November 7, 2012 QuoteQuoteSo what did we learn? How many Americans are there? In a country with well over 300 million people and yet less than 120 million bothered to vote? So what did we learn? That the majority of Americans don't give a flying fuck about either party. 300 million. How many can vote out of that, when you remove immigrants who aren't citizens, and kids? About 200 million. That's not a great turnout, but its not 120/300.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #47 November 7, 2012 I liked this: http://xkcd.com/1131/ (not particularly aimed at you Remster)Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #48 November 7, 2012 QuoteI liked this: http://xkcd.com/1131/ (not particularly aimed at you Remster) If you liked that, you'll love this: http://mashable.com/2012/11/07/nate-silver-wins/ (I think it was posted in another thread here, in case you missed it)Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #49 November 7, 2012 so far I don't see any post indicating anybody learning anything outside their old pre conceived notions oh - and a few gratuitous partisan rants and bashes - and a lot of false stereotypes that got us into this mess in the first place ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #50 November 7, 2012 I learned that I will never bet against Nate Silver. oh and by the way...he got his start learning and crushing online poker. just another reason to regulate and legalize it in this country. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
