No global warming for the last 16 years while tax payer $$ wasted on another bankrupt battery company

[rushmc 23]

Gues what??

Anothe one!!

I wonder how much of this tax money went back to Obama as campain donations???

Quote

Another DOE-Backed Solar Company Goes Bankrupt

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/10/18/another-doe-backed-solar-company-goes-bankrupt/

Another 3 mil down the shitter under the gise of renewables

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

The growing list

The complete list of faltering or bankrupt green-energy companies:

1.Evergreen Solar ($24 million)*
2.SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
3.Solyndra ($535 million)*
4.Beacon Power ($69 million)*
5.AES’s subsidiary Eastern Energy ($17.1 million)
6.Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
7.SunPower ($1.5 billion)
8.First Solar ($1.46 billion)
9.Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
10.EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
11.Amonix ($5.9 million)
12.National Renewable Energy Lab ($200 million)
13.Fisker Automotive ($528 million)
14.Abound Solar ($374 million)*
15.A123 Systems ($279 million)*
16.Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($6 million)
17.Johnson Controls ($299 million)
18.Schneider Electric ($86 million)
19.Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
20.ECOtality ($126.2 million)
21.Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
22.Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
23.Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
24.Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
25.Range Fuels ($80 million)*
26.Thompson River Power ($6.4 million)*
27.Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
28.LSP Energy ($2.1 billion)*
29.UniSolar ($100 million)*
30.Azure Dynamics ($120 million)*
31.GreenVolts ($500,000)
32.Vestas ($50 million)
33.LG Chem’s subsidiary Chemical Power ($150 million)
34.Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
35.Navistar ($10 million)
36.Satcon ($3 million)*
*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy.



Gotta wonder how this looks when compared to
campain donations by employee

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,120]

So much for the failed coal industry:

========
Patriot Coal, AMR, Tri-Valley, Contec, Ritz: Bankruptcy
By Bill Rochelle - Sep 26, 2012 5:37 AM PT

Patriot Coal Corp. (PCXCQ) reported a $29.8 million net loss in August as it awaits a ruling on whether its bankruptcy case will remain in New York or be moved to suit the wishes of thousands of workers.

The St. Louis-based coal producer filed an operating report with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan showing revenue of $168.9 million in August. The operating loss in the month was $19.3 million.

Contributing to the net loss was $4.2 million in interest expense and $6.9 million in “reorganization items.”

Patriot is waiting for U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Shelley C. Chapman to decide if the bankruptcy will stay in Manhattan or be moved to West Virginia, where eight of 12 mines are located, or to St. Louis, site of the head office. Chapman held two days of hearings earlier this month on the question of whether the case belongs somewhere else. Chapman said she will rule later.
==========

Good thing that industry get a $30 billion dollar subsidy from the BLM, coming straight from our tax dollars.

How much was the solar subsidy total, again?

[rushmc 23]

Quote

So much for the failed coal industry:

========
Patriot Coal, AMR, Tri-Valley, Contec, Ritz: Bankruptcy
By Bill Rochelle - Sep 26, 2012 5:37 AM PT

Patriot Coal Corp. (PCXCQ) reported a $29.8 million net loss in August as it awaits a ruling on whether its bankruptcy case will remain in New York or be moved to suit the wishes of thousands of workers.

The St. Louis-based coal producer filed an operating report with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan showing revenue of $168.9 million in August. The operating loss in the month was $19.3 million.

Contributing to the net loss was $4.2 million in interest expense and $6.9 million in “reorganization items.”

Patriot is waiting for U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Shelley C. Chapman to decide if the bankruptcy will stay in Manhattan or be moved to West Virginia, where eight of 12 mines are located, or to St. Louis, site of the head office. Chapman held two days of hearings earlier this month on the question of whether the case belongs somewhere else. Chapman said she will rule later.
==========

Good thing that industry get a $30 billion dollar subsidy from the BLM, coming straight from our tax dollars.

How much was the solar subsidy total, again?

I dont know

I would need a bigger caluclator to add the numbers up on the list that is just prior to your post

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,120]

But wait, it's not all bad news! US taxpayer subsidies for coal are doing some good:

==============
Insight: U.S. taxpayers poised to subsidize Asian coal demand
By Reuters Business News
Thursday, October 18, 2012

By Patrick Rucker

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Asian economies, hungry for coal, stand to gain from a U.S. program meant to keep domestic power cheap and abundant.

At issue is how much miners pay the government to tap the coal-rich Powder River Basin in eastern Montana and Wyoming. Much of the basin is on federal land.

Selling that coal cheap at a time of increasing exports across the Pacific could amount to a U.S. taxpayer subsidy for industrial rivals like China.
==============

[rushmc 23]

Quote

But wait, it's not all bad news! US taxpayer subsidies for coal are doing some good:

==============
Insight: U.S. taxpayers poised to subsidize Asian coal demand
By Reuters Business News
Thursday, October 18, 2012

By Patrick Rucker

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Asian economies, hungry for coal, stand to gain from a U.S. program meant to keep domestic power cheap and abundant.

At issue is how much miners pay the government to tap the coal-rich Powder River Basin in eastern Montana and Wyoming. Much of the basin is on federal land.

Selling that coal cheap at a time of increasing exports across the Pacific could amount to a U.S. taxpayer subsidy for industrial rivals like China.
==============

There also is a big difference between failed technology (that causes failures) and government regulations that cause failures

Which do you think each represents?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,120]

>here also is a big difference between failed technology (that causes failures)
>and government regulations that cause failures

Yes! And there is also a difference between either one of those and bad management that causes failures. Since other coal _and_ battery companies are doing quite well, it is most likely simple bad management.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

This has nothing to do with Obama and everything to do with how politics work.

[kallend 2,151]

Quote

Quote

So much for the failed coal industry:

========
Patriot Coal, AMR, Tri-Valley, Contec, Ritz: Bankruptcy
By Bill Rochelle - Sep 26, 2012 5:37 AM PT

Patriot Coal Corp. (PCXCQ) reported a $29.8 million net loss in August as it awaits a ruling on whether its bankruptcy case will remain in New York or be moved to suit the wishes of thousands of workers.

The St. Louis-based coal producer filed an operating report with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan showing revenue of $168.9 million in August. The operating loss in the month was $19.3 million.

Contributing to the net loss was $4.2 million in interest expense and $6.9 million in “reorganization items.”

Patriot is waiting for U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Shelley C. Chapman to decide if the bankruptcy will stay in Manhattan or be moved to West Virginia, where eight of 12 mines are located, or to St. Louis, site of the head office. Chapman held two days of hearings earlier this month on the question of whether the case belongs somewhere else. Chapman said she will rule later.
==========

Good thing that industry get a $30 billion dollar subsidy from the BLM, coming straight from our tax dollars.

How much was the solar subsidy total, again?

I dont know

I would need a bigger caluclator to add the numbers up on the list that is just prior to your post

You'd need a calculator to tally up the dead coal miners too.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

You'd need a calculator to tally up the dead coal miners too.

That same calculator can be used to tally up coal miners with health insurance.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,151]

Quote

Quote

You'd need a calculator to tally up the dead coal miners too.

That same calculator can be used to tally up coal miners with health insurance.

Coal is an industry that has killed thousands of people over the last century, and continues to kill people (Sago, Big Branch). The coal industry has a fatality rate nearly 10 times higher than all private industry in the US.

And then there are the non-fatal health problems associated with coal mining.

How many workers are killed by the solar and wind industries?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Coal is an industry that has killed thousands of people over the last century

Yes. The engineering industry has killed multiple times more people, but aerospace engineers still have a pretty good reputation despite things like the BOAC comet.

And here's another question: how many lives has coal saved? How many lives have been saved by air conditioning? How many lives have been saved by coal heating?

Come to think of it, one can find a fairly strong correlation between increases in life expectancy and increases in the use of fossil fuels. It's a number than cannot be established and mining coal does have a list of deaths associated with it. That's not denied.

But would you say that people are worse off since fossil fuels began being used or better off?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

And here's another question: how many lives has coal saved? How many lives have been saved by air conditioning? How many lives have been saved by coal heating?

Come to think of it, one can find a fairly strong correlation between increases in life expectancy and increases in the use of fossil fuels. It's a number than cannot be established and mining coal does have a list of deaths associated with it. That's not denied.

But would you say that people are worse off since fossil fuels began being used or better off?

You'll see a correlation, but causation is a different matter. Medicine and substantial improvements in all sorts of science came at the same time. It was a grand synergy. But we may well be falling downslope again - fossil fuels means no one in America has to walk anywhere. Not even within Walmart.

Heating definitely has value, whereas AC is harder to support. Yes you see a few deaths in heat waves, but I don't think that number even keeps up with coal miner deaths.

The early days of fossil fuels saw terrible pollution - London was a smokestack. I don't think that period actually saw a positive gain in quality of life or health. Coal is dirty, releases gobs of particulate matter, releases a decent amount of radiation and other harmful substances.

Natural gas is a very different beast, though I grow increasingly fearful that fracking is going to be the same sort of mistake that MTBE was in California.

[masterblaster72 0]

Quote

And then there are the non-fatal health problems associated with coal mining.

Don't forget mountaintop removal in West Virginia.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[masterblaster72 0]

Quote

Quote

Hottest year on record: 2005

A little knowledge goes a long way in terms of preventing foot-in-mouth syndrome.

Absolutely the hottest year on record. What was the temperature in the year 1000BC?

I don't think it was recorded. But going by that logic, everything is perfectly fine because the earth is not nearly as hot as it was during a mass extinction 250 million years ago.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Medicine and substantial improvements in all sorts of science came at the same time. It was a grand synergy.

Additional correlations.

But the question is:
"But would you say that people are worse off since fossil fuels began being used or better off?"

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[livendive 8]

Quote

From NOAA
•The average combined global land and ocean surface temperature for January–September 2012 was the eighth warmest such period on record.

Seems legit (see attached). lol

I'm back in school these days, and somewhat overwhelmed by the workload as compared to undergrad. I haven't had to do any detailed research on global warming yet, just a few hundred pages of reading, some lecture material, and light writing. That said, its a topic I will have to spend a quite a bit of time on in the next two years, including one dedicated 600 level course, and I'll be sure to NOT check in here for opinions on the matter. Global warming is like a microcosm of speakers corner, there a precious few who can discuss it with any level of reason, and a ridiculous number of people who seem to think volume is a legitimate substitute for knowledge.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

Enjoy! Some of it felt a bit aggrandized, but the overall concept of risk management is pretty solid. Typical military approach of work toward and hope for a best case, but always be prepared for something less.

And no, the Soviet Union and China did not take over the world in the late 80's, we're getting by fine without Star Wars, and second-hand smoke is still bad.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Remster 30]

I hope your wife has a geek fetish.

Remster

[livendive 8]

Quote

I hope your wife has a geek fetish.

Fortunately for me...

I've found another fun way to break up the monotony of studying. I find her and terrify her with tidbits of information about vulnerabilities. Like the other way, it's best done when she's just about to go to sleep and I still have hours of homework left to do.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Remster 30]

Quote

Like the other way

Poor girl....

Remster

[billvon 3,120]

> If in fact global warming was an important issue why does Obama no longer mention it?

Because the question wasn't asked.

[lawrocket 3]

I look forward to being able to carry on good conversations with you about this.

Congrats on being the old guy with the young guys.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34227_162-57533597/electric-battery-maker-a123-systems-goes-bankrupt/

Whatever.

As an engineer I worry about big things and ignore little things below the measurement noise floor.

The "hundreds of millions in government support" are 1/1000th the extra hundreds of billions we're unnecessarily wasting on our military which makes them irrelevant.

Or to take a "conservative" view hundreds of millions are 1/1000th the extra hundreds of billions we're wasting on welfare which makes them irrelevant (except as sound bite fodder when you have a campaign to run).

[lawrocket 3]

I think it's all relevant.

My wife is hotter than your wife.