Health Premiums Up $3,000; Obama Vowed $2,500 Cut

[rushmc 23]

http://news.investors.com/092412-626848-health-premiums-up-3065-obama-vowed-2500-cut.aspx

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During his first run for president, Barack Obama made one very specific promise to voters: He would cut health insurance premiums for families by $2,500, and do so in his first term.

But it turns out that family premiums have increased by more than $3,000 since Obama's vow, according to the latest annual Kaiser Family Foundation employee health benefits survey.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[tkhayes 348]

If Obama could control healthcare prices, then it would be called SOCIALISM. and the price would be $50/year. Same situation for gas - it would be $0.50/gallon, same for unemployment, which would be ZERO.

Quit blaming the President for something that you would IN FACT be blaming him him for if he COULD control it.

[kallend 2,150]

Yep, silly to promise anything that can be stymied by Republicans in Congress.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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If Obama could control healthcare prices, then it would be called SOCIALISM. and the price would be $50/year. Same situation for gas - it would be $0.50/gallon, same for unemployment, which would be ZERO.

Quit blaming the President for something that you would IN FACT be blaming him him for if he COULD control it.

BHO made the promise

Some of those who voted for him thought he coudl do it

Many of us knew and posted here that if he got what he wanted the price to go higher faster

Next

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DougH 270]

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If Obama could control healthcare prices, then it would be called SOCIALISM. and the price would be $50/year. Same situation for gas - it would be $0.50/gallon, same for unemployment, which would be ZERO.

Quit blaming the President for something that you would IN FACT be blaming him him for if he COULD control it.

Premiums have risen because there a provisions in Obama Care that have raised costs for insurance companies. He is directly responsible for the increase in premiums.

Those new costs are getting passed on to policy holders, wow who didn't see that coming.

If a 200 dollar per flight FAA fee gets put in place is your business going to eat the cost, or are you going to pass it on to jumpers?

You do provide health care for all your workers at ZHills right TK?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[tkhayes 348]

You want capitalism? You got Capitalism....

[tkhayes 348]

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You do provide health care for all your workers at ZHills right TK?

No we do not - no one can afford 'health care' except those that can afford it. It's an old Ron Hill debate that actually means nothing so I will not really get sucked into it as it is not relevant to the conversation.

The USA does not have a system of 'health care'. It has a system of 'health insurance'. Health CARE is not delivered by the government nor insurance companies. Health INSURANCE is. Health CARE is delivered by doctors and hospitals, etc - and can only be afforded by very few in this country and while it is the (one of the) best health CARE systems out there, only a few can afford it.

And while Skydive City (and tens of thousand of other businesses) do not provide 'health insurance' to their employees, we will soon have to provide something under the ACA. and we will, because it will be the law.

And we will receive tex breaks for doing so. And it will be expensive but certainly more affordable than it is now. And the price of a jump ticket will go up probably, because everyone will do the same.

We used to offer subsidized health insurance but two things happened. 1. it got really expensive and 2. because it got really expensive the staff stopped buying it because they could not afford their share either.

If you want to get health care COSTS under control, that will require a 'SOCIAL'program to do so, not a capitalistic program.

And this ACA program will fail because a capitalistic system is still in place and is the main reason that health CARE costs continue to rise, therefore insurance premiums will continue to rise. And when it does fail. The system will eb replaced by something like Medicare for all, single payer, or Universal Health Care and i will put my $100 that the Republican Party will be the govt that brings it into being.

Believing in health care for everyone and then not buying it for everyone I come into contact with is not hypocritical - despite your best efforts to say that it is......

It's kind of like saying you believe in everyone carrying guns but then if you do not buy guns for everyone, then you are a hypocrite. Lame argument. If you want to debate Health Care, then there is plenty to debate about. If you want to point fingers and call names, well.......

[rushmc 23]

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You want capitalism? You got Capitalism....

Ya I prefer capitalism

But it works much better without government tweaking

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[tkhayes 348]

so then you agree that the system today is working and that rising rates for insurance are just fine?

Glad we cleared that up.

[rushmc 23]

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so then you agree that the system today is working and that rising rates for insurance are just fine?

Glad we cleared that up.

No
We got a system now, affected by our government

That intervention is causing prices to raise faster that they would have

But since it is the gov, you are OK with that

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DougH 270]

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It's kind of like saying you believe in everyone carrying guns but then if you do not buy guns for everyone, then you are a hypocrite. Lame argument. If you want to debate Health Care, then there is plenty to debate about. If you want to point fingers and call names, well.......

Sorry TK, I should have put more in there. I know your position on not offering health care, and given the costs involved I totally understand. I was just being a ball buster.

In general I agree that we need some serious cost control. I don't think those have to be based on a primarily socialized system.

The ACA did little if not nothing at all that would contribute to meaningful cost control. All it did was add a bunch of demand to the system.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[tkhayes 348]

explain please. A few specific examples of how 'government interference' is causing the insurance prices to rise.

I think insurance companies are trying to make a profit for their shareholders, and THAT would be the primary reason that premiums are rising.

[tkhayes 348]

And that is why the ACA will fail - we are not delivering health care - only insurance. It was a compromise to get it passed and it is destined to fail.

The right wing, instead of repealing it, should focus on letting it run as it would be a huge black-eye to Obama.

Instead they wil try to repeal it again and if they win and are successful, I expect in 4 years, another 15-20% of Americans will no longer have health insurance, the system will begin to crumble.

[DougH 270]

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explain please. A few specific examples of how 'government interference' is causing the insurance prices to rise.

I think insurance companies are trying to make a profit for their shareholders, and THAT would be the primary reason that premiums are rising.

I already did above. The ACA has provisions that added additional cost to health insurance companies, those costs get passed on in the form of premium increases.

It is pretty simple!

Do you think it is free to insure people with preexisting conditions. Or mandate that insurers keep peoples freeloading "children" on employers plans well into their adult life?

The shareholder profits argument doesn't pan out. Mutual insurance companies, where the owners are the policy holders, have seen similar increases. This isn't additional profit taking, this is addition of costs.

What do you think will happen to the cost of primary health care, at the provider level, when all these people with their new free government health care start looking for doctors. I can give you a hint, it won't decrease the cost, increase in demand doesn't normally do that!

The insurance companies are only passing along costs. In general that is how insurance works.

The problem is further down the line, in the form of drug companies, medical device manufacturers, doctors, hospitals. The way we provide healthcare in this country needs to be drastically changed!

Great example of hospitals gone wild. The father of my Mothers brother in law (Uncle by marriage) was rather sick and in intensive care during his last days. My uncle reviewed the massive bill that was being sent to medicare and included a ton of wasteful procedures and tests, doctors do this just to cover their ass from lawsuits. In the last of needless cost was some coding for a Gyno. Rather interesting that a dying old man would need a OBGYN.

EMR systems have automated questions that pop up during a regular check up that have little medical benefit, but by asking them Doctors get to charge a higher rate. No value, more costs.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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You want capitalism? You got Capitalism....

Nope.

In capitalist systems there are market alternatives which leverage lower costs of materials and labor to provide better prices. For example, for minor problems you might pay a nurse $25 for 15 minutes of his time and leave with a prescription.

The astute reader will note that's not possible - only doctors are allowed to write prescriptions.

This is because we don't have capitalist health care - we have corporatist health care, where the doctor's union (aka the AMA) has gotten laws passed so that only those who've cleared its high bar to entry (pre-med, med-school, internship, and residency) can practice medicine with the resulting cost of entry and scarcity producing high prices.

[livendive 8]

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You want capitalism? You got Capitalism....

Nope.

In capitalist systems there are market alternatives which leverage lower costs of materials and labor to provide better prices. For example, for minor problems you might pay a nurse $25 for 15 minutes of his time and leave with a prescription.

The astute reader will note that's not possible - only doctors are allowed to write prescriptions.

This is because we don't have capitalist health care - we have corporatist health care, where the doctor's union (aka the AMA) has gotten laws passed so that only those who've cleared its high bar to entry (pre-med, med-school, internship, and residency) can practice medicine with the resulting cost of entry and scarcity producing high prices.

This. Sometimes I know exactly what I need, and if it's simply a prescription, I have enough doctor friends to get a piece of paper on the cheap/free. But not everyone has that option, so even if they know they just need a Z-Pack, or Probenacid, or a couple day supply of hydrocodone, they have to incur the wrath of the medical industry, with accountants and receptionists and nurses and building overhead and insurance and a prorated portion of the non-payers and all sorts of other costs.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

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During his first run for president, Barack Obama made one very specific promise to voters: He would cut health insurance premiums for families by $2,500, and do so in his first term.

I would like to see a quote of him making this "promise".

Quote

Quote

But it turns out that family premiums have increased by more than $3,000 since Obama's vow, according to the latest annual Kaiser Family Foundation employee health benefits survey.

I'm gonna need a better quote on that too. When I look at said report, Exhibit 6.4, it appears 2012 premiums for family coverage are $2,370 higher than they were in 2009, and only $801 of that cost is paid by the employee.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[tkhayes 348]

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This is because we don't have capitalist health care - we have corporatist health care, where the insurance companies doctor's union (aka the AMA) has gotten laws passed so that only those who've cleared its high bar to enter its insurance premiums (pre-med, med-school, internship, and residency) can practice medicine with the resulting cost of entry and scarcity producing high prices.

fixed that for you. the best I could. If you think that doctors are 'unionized', then you need your head examined.

Go talk to your family doctor and ask him about the hassles of collecting from insurance companies. And if you think that the insurance companies are not lobbying DC, then you also need your head examined. The ACA is a gold mine for them, they love it. They will make billions billions and billions of dollars by forcing legislation so we all have to buy health INSURANCE, not health CARE.

[devildog 0]

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During his first run for president, Barack Obama made one very specific promise to voters: He would cut health insurance premiums for families by $2,500, and do so in his first term.

I would like to see a quote of him making this "promise".

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/521/cut-cost-typical-familys-health-insurance-premium-/

Took 5 secs (if that) on Google. Funny thing is, the speech got removed from BO's website... gee, wonder why?

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[livendive 8]

Cool, thanks, I found a transcript.

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I have made a solemn pledge that I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premiums by up to $2500 a year. That's not simply a matter of policy or ideology – it's a moral commitment.

He does say that he'd sign the bill by the end of his first term, and "up to" (i.e. maximum), but still, it's certainly more direct than I'd expected.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)