Clint Eastwood at the GOP Convention

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Speaking only as a neighbor, I think there was a serious heartfelt intent to rehabilitate foreign opinions, relations and perceptions about your country, addressed to a largely hopeful and receptive audience. Unfortunately, the reality has fallen very very short.

Obama was marketed by his media pals to be "The messiah, the savior of humanity, the great uniter of the human race complete with his Nobel Peace Prize". But Obama has been anything but a uniter and the only job Obama cares about is his own job. He has been a divider pitting classes against each other and shitting all over the USA's largest trading partner with his protectionist anti-trade, anti-business policies. But with all that going on with the failed Messiah, the Republicans do NOT get a "Get out of jail for free card" for they too still have plenty of skeletons in their closet. The USA is in desperate need for a 3rd option. Of course we know from our own experience north of the border that 3rd options by default are not the solution. 3rd options must still have good policies and must not be afraid to do unpopular things when they are the right thing to do. Governing from the center and not actually doing anything because you fear alienating some special interest group that you depend on is no solution. For years the LPC just assumed that they would always be the "Natural Governing Party", and when they got caught red handed stealing money from the tax payers, the voters rightly punished them to the point where they still have not recovered.

What am I trying to say? Obama and the Democrats have failed the US people with their politics of division and they have failed their largest trading partner with their protectionist policies. But the Republicans also have a history of failing the American people. The USA is screwed with these two political parties. The USA desperately needs a 3rd option. But who? Look at what the media and the GOP did to Ron Paul when he tried to be different.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[GeorgiaDon 379]

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Data only means something to those who analyze data.

And of course, you have made it clear on many occasions that you care nothing for facts, but only for what reinforces your pre-existing prejudices.

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He promised socialized medicine...

Given that medicare and social security are the two biggest "socialist" government programs in existence, I assume you have refused to accept both. If you actually "walk the walk", that is. When it comes to people who bitch and whine about socialism while pocketing the benefits thereof, well there's a word for that.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[RonD1120 62]

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Data only means something to those who analyze data.

And of course, you have made it clear on many occasions that you care nothing for facts, but only for what reinforces your pre-existing prejudices.

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He promised socialized medicine...

Given that medicare and social security are the two biggest "socialist" government programs in existence, I assume you have refused to accept both. If you actually "walk the walk", that is. When it comes to people who bitch and whine about socialism while pocketing the benefits thereof, well there's a word for that.

Don

Social security and Medicare were already in existence. I did not have an opportunity to voice an opinion or vote for either one.

You know I am speaking of Obamacare and therefore, you are sliding off tract.

I don't know where you live in GA but, up here in the mountains I have not found any BHO supporters. None of my friends in FL are BHO supporters. In all fairness, two members of my family are BHO supporters.

So you can call me any names you wish, the fact remains that my tribe wants him out. For me to change my position would put all of my personal relationships in jeopardy. This world is just cyberspace.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[GeorgiaDon 379]

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Social security and Medicare were already in existence. I did not have an opportunity to voice an opinion or vote for either one.

You know I am speaking of Obamacare and therefore, you are sliding off tract.

You certainly have an opportunity to write to the Social Security Administration to explain your opposition to "socialist programs" and ask that you no longer be sent your social security check, and you could cut up and mail back your medicare card. Or, you could be honest and say that those programs are useful to you, so you'll choose to bend your principles when it comes to your own benefit.

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I don't know where you live in GA but, up here in the mountains I have not found any BHO supporters. None of my friends in FL are BHO supporters. In all fairness, two members of my family are BHO supporters.

So you can call me any names you wish, the fact remains that my tribe wants him out. For me to change my position would put all of my personal relationships in jeopardy. This world is just cyberspace.

Interesting. I have to say your slavish devotion to tribalism fits perfectly with the way you often describe your religious principles. I'm sorry for you that you choose to live in such a narrow "me and my family against the world" frame of reference. Do your friends and family choose your clothes for you too?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[livendive 8]

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Bottom line, people are not working. Green energy projects did not produce jobs or effect. Families are in danger. They see socialism being forced on them in a rapidly increasing rate. They see their Christian values being made insignificant. They see their beloved country being made subservient by an angry President. They believe something different must be done.

BHO had his chance and he failed. He should be fired and replaced.

How do you see your Christian values being made insignificant? If your values are affected by a President, you're doing it wrong. All this guy wants is for you to not force your values on me, as mine are slightly different (and vice versa). And our country isn't becoming subservient, it's just becoming a better neighbor. I'd agree that BHO's progress has been less than perfect, but his position is rather critical, so we probably shouldn't fire him until we've found a better candidate to replace him. Mitt Romney looks more likely to return us to the ways of GWB than to move us forward toward any goal we want to reach.

Blues,
Dave

As I read your reply I conclude, you have proven my point.

You and proof have a pretty disfunctional relationship. Neither of you is good for the other. Fortunately in this instance, you're not even in the same area code.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

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Speaking only as a neighbor, I think there was a serious heartfelt intent to rehabilitate foreign opinions, relations and perceptions about your country, addressed to a largely hopeful and receptive audience. Unfortunately, the reality has fallen very very short.

Obama was marketed by his media pals to be "The messiah, the savior of humanity, the great uniter of the human race complete with his Nobel Peace Prize". But Obama has been anything but a uniter and the only job Obama cares about is his own job. He has been a divider pitting classes against each other and shitting all over the USA's largest trading partner with his protectionist anti-trade, anti-business policies. But with all that going on with the failed Messiah, the Republicans do NOT get a "Get out of jail for free card" for they too still have plenty of skeletons in their closet. The USA is in desperate need for a 3rd option. Of course we know from our own experience north of the border that 3rd options by default are not the solution. 3rd options must still have good policies and must not be afraid to do unpopular things when they are the right thing to do. Governing from the center and not actually doing anything because you fear alienating some special interest group that you depend on is no solution. For years the LPC just assumed that they would always be the "Natural Governing Party", and when they got caught red handed stealing money from the tax payers, the voters rightly punished them to the point where they still have not recovered.

What am I trying to say? Obama and the Democrats have failed the US people with their politics of division and they have failed their largest trading partner with their protectionist policies. But the Republicans also have a history of failing the American people. The USA is screwed with these two political parties. The USA desperately needs a 3rd option. But who? Look at what the media and the GOP did to Ron Paul when he tried to be different.

You are misremembering to the point of dishonesty. The whole Messiah gig and your related claims were sarcastically put forth and kept alive by the Republicans, and the most divisive aspect of our government is the House, where the mantra is "Never compromise, make Obama fail, regardless of the consequences."

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[RonD1120 62]

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Interesting. I have to say your slavish devotion to tribalism fits perfectly with the way you often describe your religious principles. I'm sorry for you that you choose to live in such a narrow "me and my family against the world" frame of reference. Do your friends and family choose your clothes for you too?

Don

That post is indicative of a major culture difference between us. I rely and depend on family and friendships. You depend on systems.

I prefer the personal connection. In my world you may not be judged a real person. That might be unfair to say because this is after all cyberspace.

It is difficult to trust those who are not real. Therefore, systems are what you and you social strata need. An example of what I am talking about is cocktail parties.

At those afternoon gatherings people socialize, are friendly with one another and make business contacts. However, there is always the element of game play and you can't trust anyone.

I don't like that world. I didn't like it when I was in it. To each's own.

I pray our side wins in November and I think there is a good chance for victory. We shall see. If your side wins I know who I can count on the next four years.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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You are misremembering to the point of dishonesty

Really because I really would like to know why Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for doing absolutely nothing except that many people viewed him as their savior of humanity. How many other people in this world have won the Nobel Peace Prize for doing nothing?

Obama is a divider and it is rather sad how he vilifies successful people. Successful people should be emulated not criticized. Why do you think Clint Eastwood decided to speak out against Obama. Mr Eastwood once liked Obama, but that was before he saw what a divisive politicians that Obama is.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[GeorgiaDon 379]

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That post is indicative of a major culture difference between us. I rely and depend on family and friendships. You depend on systems.

You're right there is a major cultural difference between us, but you're completely wrong about the nature of the difference. I don't depend on "systems", I weigh facts, think about things logically, and then MAKE UP MY OWN MIND. I don't rely on friends or family to tell me what to believe, or how to vote. Unlike you, who by your own admission dare not deviate from the tribal "wisdom". I have to admit, social ostracism has always been a powerful tool to enforce rigid conformity.

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In my world you may not be judged a real person.

I'm sure I wouldn't be. That's because I stand on my own feet, support myself and my family, and don't let anyone else tell me what I should believe or how I should think. That makes me, and people like me, a threat to those who live as a cog in some tribal machine. And of course, the first step to attacking those who threaten is to dehumanize them.

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An example of what I am talking about is cocktail parties.

I've never been to a "cocktail party" in my life. I could not possibly care less about "social strata". I do value the ability to think for oneself.

It seems to me that in many ways you exemplify everything that is wrong with politics in this country, and you don't even know it. You complain about "socialism" and the national debt, yet you selfishly partake of the the most socialist of government entitlement programs, arguing "you don't have a choice". You admit you robotically vote for one side, not because of any deep analysis of competing policies, but because that's what your tribe expects and it would damage your status if you were to do otherwise. You complain about the president being "divisive", yet you make it clear that there is nothing he could ever possibly do that would attract your support. Your own words tell us your opposition to all things Democratic is not based on considered thought, or logic, but on prejudice and tribalism. Unfortunately, there are many just like like you, on both sides of the political spectrum, leaving it to the 10% or so who actually make a considered decision to determine the direction of the country.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[livendive 8]

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You are misremembering to the point of dishonesty

Really because I really would like to know why Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for doing absolutely nothing except that many people viewed him as their savior of humanity. How many other people in this world have won the Nobel Peace Prize for doing nothing?

Obama is a divider and it is rather sad how he vilifies successful people. Successful people should be emulated not criticized. Why do you think Clint Eastwood decided to speak out against Obama. Mr Eastwood once liked Obama, but that was before he saw what a divisive politicians that Obama is.

I don't recall his nobel commendation mentioning anything about being a "savior". In fact, you seem to be the one dreaming that up and then projecting it onto them. Af for Eastwood, and villifying successful people, did you hear the praise Obama had for Mr. Eastwood yesterday? Again, you're fantasizing something that simply isn't true.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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you're fantasizing something that simply isn't true.

Here are a few truths about Obama.

1) He grew up surrounded by Marxists.

2) He lived a privileged life as he went to some prestigious schools, though we do not know what he did in these schools because all his academic records and accomplishments are closely guarded secrets.

3) After leaving school he worked as a community organizer and because he is an above average orator (when his teleprompter works), someone thought he was a prime candidate to be some sort of hero to the struggling classes if he only entered politics.

4) Once he entered politics, he was fast tracked by the media into his stardom.

5) He has zero business experience and prior to being elected POTUS he had zero experience being the leader of any government organization.

Zero business experience and zero experience running any sort of government organization pretty much sums up his poor performance in his 4 years as Prez. Yes the GOP have made life difficult for him these last two years, but when he had complete control in his first two years, he sure did not do much with that time as well?

I am on record saying the GOP have their own skeletons. I am on record saying both parties have done a disservice to the American people. But all we get from you appears to be "It's not Obama's fault, it's not the Democrats fault, all blame is clearly on the GOP and anyone who criticizes Obama and the Democrats is dishonest and living in a fantasy world". There are just not enough hours in the day to deal with all this partisan BS.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[GeorgiaDon 379]

Despite all of the above, in the interests of anti-tribalism I'd like to sincerely wish Ron, his family, and everybody else from the SC family a safe and happy Labor Day.

(It is kind of funny, though, that Labor Day is sort of the ultimate socialist holiday in the US, what with celebrating the laboring classes and all).

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kallend 2,135]

Tell us Ron, do you refrain from driving on public roads, only attended private schools or send your tribe's kids to them? Did you never make use of Air Traffic Control services? Never visited a national or state park?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,096]

>What is the percentage of such analyzers compared to the total number of actual voters?

Fairly large, IMO. Most people are not as dumb as politician think they are.

>I don't know where the "blame the drought on Obama" came from.

John Boehner (the GOP Speaker of the House): "Obama continues to blame anyone and everyone for the drought but himself . . ."

>This I know, he promised jobs, he failed.

Other than the 3+ million jobs created 2010-2012. (I know, those are "esoteric facts" that no republican cares about.)

>That is all I need to know to make my presidential vote.

From your postings so far, all you need to know to make your presidential vote is what letter appears after the candidate's name.

[billvon 3,096]

>Successful people should be emulated not criticized.

Cool. Obama is about as successful as they come.

> Why do you think Clint Eastwood decided to speak out against Obama.

Because he's a Republican.

>Mr Eastwood once liked Obama

?? He supported McCain for president.

BTW the GOP is still smarting a bit over his bizarre performance on stage. It was cut from the video they made of the convention; many GOPers are hoping it quietly goes away.

[RonD1120 62]

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>This I know, he promised jobs, he failed.

Other than the 3+ million jobs created 2010-2012. (I know, those are "esoteric facts" that no republican cares about.)

>That is all I need to know to make my presidential vote.

From your postings so far, all you need to know to make your presidential vote is what letter appears after the candidate's name.

I've heard that 3+ million reference from other members of the BHO following. Where are they? What we hear on the news is the ever increasing numbers of unemployed. Isn't this claim along the lines of 3+ million employed in, I don't know, someplace, and 5 million unemployed in another sector. How is that progress? How does that justify another term?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 3,096]

>Where are they?

from PolitiFact:

=====================
We decided to look specifically at Obama’s claim that "in the last 22 months, businesses have created more than three million jobs. Last year, they created the most jobs since 2005."

We checked Obama’s claim by using data published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the federal agency responsible for compiling employment data. We found that the U.S. economy has seen 22 consecutive months of private-sector job growth, beginning in Feb. 2010. During that 22-month period, the number of jobs grew by almost 3.16 million, or about 143,000 per month.
=======================

>What we hear on the news is the ever increasing numbers of unemployed.

The unemployed overall number is going down and has been since mid 2009. However, since government is shrinking, some government employees are losing their jobs. So if you choose to listen to only the news on public-sector jobs, then the number of unemployed is increasing.

(Whether or not you think this is a good thing is another issue.)

>Isn't this claim along the lines of 3+ million employed in, I don't know, someplace . . .

Yes. In the private sector.

>and 5 million unemployed in another sector. How is that progress?

?? I thought that getting rid of government bloat was a good thing?

Overall employment is up when you look at both the public and private sector. Look at them separately and you see that unemployment in the private sector is down and unemployment in the public sector is up.

[shah269 0]

Ah the old man and the seat....wow that was some very messed up thing they did to the old guy!
I mean he's old! He has no clue where the hell he is or who he is talking to! Half of the lecture/rant was aimed at jesus h bush!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[1969912 0]

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Ah the old man and the seat....wow that was some very messed up thing they did to the old guy!
I mean he's old! He has no clue where the hell he is or who he is talking to! Half of the lecture/rant was aimed at jesus h bush!

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[mirage62 0]

What I find so disheartening in S.C. is how passionate people like Bill and Kallend have become for "their side". I mention them because I personally meet both and had great conversations w them that enlighten me on their position and at times changed my thoughts.

When "we the people" give up become so locked stepped that good people can't discuss issues, open minded.... we are in big trouble..

I realize this is just S.C. But go as far back and read old post, the entire conversation has turn to nothing but "you guys suck" "no you suck".

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[RonD1120 62]

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>Where are they?

from PolitiFact:

=====================
We decided to look specifically at Obama’s claim that "in the last 22 months, businesses have created more than three million jobs. Last year, they created the most jobs since 2005."

We checked Obama’s claim by using data published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the federal agency responsible for compiling employment data. We found that the U.S. economy has seen 22 consecutive months of private-sector job growth, beginning in Feb. 2010. During that 22-month period, the number of jobs grew by almost 3.16 million, or about 143,000 per month.
=======================

>What we hear on the news is the ever increasing numbers of unemployed.

The unemployed overall number is going down and has been since mid 2009. However, since government is shrinking, some government employees are losing their jobs. So if you choose to listen to only the news on public-sector jobs, then the number of unemployed is increasing.

(Whether or not you think this is a good thing is another issue.)

>Isn't this claim along the lines of 3+ million employed in, I don't know, someplace . . .

Yes. In the private sector.

>and 5 million unemployed in another sector. How is that progress?

?? I thought that getting rid of government bloat was a good thing?

Overall employment is up when you look at both the public and private sector. Look at them separately and you see that unemployment in the private sector is down and unemployment in the public sector is up.

When I checked your source I discovered some disparaging evidence. Namely:

PolitiFact is a website that attempts to present non-biased fact checking on claims made by candidates in the lead up to an election. The Mainstream Media calls the group a "neutral arbiter", but the facts are often skewered to a liberals advantage. In 2010, 39% of Republican statements were "Pants on fire" or "False" compared with just 12% of democrat statements. [1]

“ PolitiFact.com is a project of the Tampa Bay Times to help you find the truth in Washington and the Obama presidency. ”

Questionable Results

Due to their fake non-partisanship, non-biased stance and their use of Democrats as fact checkers, results are not trustworthy.

http://www.conservapedia.com/PolitiFact

When asked, do you think we are better off today than four years ago, most Democrats on the news shows Sunday, 2 Sep, backpedaled and hedged their responses. The Governor of Maryland, Martin O'Malley (D) was outspoken. He unequivocally stated, "No."

Without a doubt, when you start Internet searching you can find just what you are looking for.

However, most people are not satisfied with BHO, they are worried, they feel divided and simply do not feel or believe we are better off.

When you take away the esoteric data, the opinions of the liberal college professors, the celebrities in Hollywood what is left?

Unhappy Americans!

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wmw999 2,574]

I'm not sure that taking a source with a known and stated strong conservative bias (conservapedia) to judge a source that tries not to be biased (politifact) is a really sound methodology.

Politifact gives the rationale for their evaluations -- the data is right there for one to actually read and judge. It's by no means perfect, but they provide the context. But you have to actually read the material, and not just the headlines.

BTW, using Democrats as fact checkers alone is not enough to dismiss something -- as long as they also use Republicans and independents.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[ianmdrennan 2]

You can lead a horse to water....

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PolitiFact is a website that attempts to present non-biased fact checking on claims made by candidates in the lead up to an election. The Mainstream Media calls the group a "neutral arbiter", but the facts are often skewered to a liberals advantage. In 2010, 39% of Republican statements were "Pants on fire" or "False" compared with just 12% of democrat statements. [1]

Ron, just because (at the moment) the GOP has more "pants on fire" rantings doesn't mean anything about political slant, but rather that (currently) the GOP are just spreading more BS (note: Not saying the Dems aren't spreading BS either, just that currently their ratio is lower...I'm sure that'll change in time too).

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Without a doubt, when you start Internet searching you can find just what you are looking for.

Yes, and that's a large part of the problem. People, regardless of side, often just believe whatever they read on the internet. It's becoming harder and harder to find accurate information in all the noise. Politifact, as Wendy pointed out, while not perfect gives context and the info as well as the evaluation of the statement. Something lacking most "sources" of information today.

I would encourage you to seek better sources of information (than for example the wiki page you posted).

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[RonD1120 62]

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I'm not sure that taking a source with a known and stated strong conservative bias (conservapedia) to judge a source that tries not to be biased (politifact) is a really sound methodology.

Politifact gives the rationale for their evaluations -- the data is right there for one to actually read and judge. It's by no means perfect, but they provide the context. But you have to actually read the material, and not just the headlines.

BTW, using Democrats as fact checkers alone is not enough to dismiss something -- as long as they also use Republicans and independents.

Wendy P.

Having lived in the Tampa Bay Area most of my life I am very familiar with the Tampa Bay Times, formerly the St. Petersburg Times. It is one of the most left wing newspapers in the country.

I was not aware that Politifact was one of their projects. Now that I know, I would not trust anything they post as fact.

Many years ago, we considered the St. Pete Times as near Communist. I'm sorry, too many years of awareness to have a sense of comfort with them.

BTW, Conservapedia was specifically formed as a counterbalance to the left wing liberal bias of Wikipedia.

The country is passionately divided between Liberals and Conservatives. Democrats and Republicans are a subterfuge. The battle is growing stronger. The chasm is growing wider.

What will it take to bring us back together? WWII was the last event that I am aware of.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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left wing liberal bias of Wikipedia.

Do you know how Wikipedia works? Wikipedia is not necessarily a source of facts. In fact wikipedia relies on the community to support/edit statements on it. So, if you have a conservative/liberal wiki page - you can be pretty sure it's going to be factually inaccurate, and biased since the community that supports it are going to enable their own agendas. Case in point, your conservapedia link.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team