GM to halt production of the VOLT

[kallend 2,147]

Quote

Quote

>Wonder what a VW beetle would be if we had improved at a 1% average......

Going from the 1967 model (29mpg) nowadays we'd have a Beetle that got 45mpg. Given that we have a few cars nowadays that can hit 45mpg, 1% a year probably isn't too unreasonable a goal.

you can get incremental 1% improvements from steps like body lightening (substitute AL/CBF for Steel), but some of the steps are bigger jumps.

Legislatively you'd need to let them bank bigger years or run slight deficits in others.

Well, setting a target some 15 or so years out allows the automakers to do just that if they choose.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

you can get incremental 1% improvements from steps like body lightening (substitute AL/CBF for Steel), but some of the steps are bigger jumps.

Legislatively you'd need to let them bank bigger years or run slight deficits in others.

Well, setting a target some 15 or so years out allows the automakers to do just that if they choose.

That's how CAFE legislation has generally worked, as well as with California's EV mandates. Then what seems to happen is the manufacturers spend 10 years with their thumb up their ass trying to get it squashed, and only start to try in year 12 or so.

Dropping it down to 5 year mandates could help this a little bit.

[Bolas 5]

Quote

Quote

Quote

you can get incremental 1% improvements from steps like body lightening (substitute AL/CBF for Steel), but some of the steps are bigger jumps.

Legislatively you'd need to let them bank bigger years or run slight deficits in others.

Well, setting a target some 15 or so years out allows the automakers to do just that if they choose.

That's how CAFE legislation has generally worked, as well as with California's EV mandates. Then what seems to happen is the manufacturers spend 10 years with their thumb up their ass trying to get it squashed, and only start to try in year 12 or so.

Dropping it down to 5 year mandates could help this a little bit.

Or find better ways to encourage advancements other than government mandates,

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Or find better ways to encourage advancements other than government mandates,

which will work as well as the ADA food pyramid encouraging people to eat more broccoli. People generally don't care too much about fuel economy. For the sort of driving I do, my generic 25mpg subaru uses only 300 gallons a year. So $2 more / gal only costs me $600. That's frankly not enough incentive for me to compromise.

But it is, in my opinion, a case of national security that we substantially reduce our oil consumption and export from elsewhere. Even if we believe we have substantially greater reserves via shale oil. The Europeans seem to get by with much better efficiency and yet still maintain some semblance of pollution standards.

[Bolas 5]

Quote

Quote

Or find better ways to encourage advancements other than government mandates,

which will work as well as the ADA food pyramid encouraging people to eat more broccoli. People generally don't care too much about fuel economy. For the sort of driving I do, my generic 25mpg subaru uses only 300 gallons a year. So $2 more / gal only costs me $600. That's frankly not enough incentive for me to compromise.

But it is, in my opinion, a case of national security that we substantially reduce our oil consumption and export from elsewhere. Even if we believe we have substantially greater reserves via shale oil. The Europeans seem to get by with much better efficiency and yet still maintain some semblance of pollution standards.

Ah yes. Food. Another thing the government heavily subsidizes.

Wouldn't it be far easier if the government simply stopped subsidizing an item with one hand and then mandating requirements for that same item with the other?

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 3,114]

>Or find better ways to encourage advancements other than government mandates,

Ah, but there's the rub. Better fuel economy is only an "advancement" if you care about future energy security, mitigating climate change or saving natural resources for the next generation. If your only goal is how well your Chrysler or Exxon stock will do in the next two years it's a terrible idea.

[Bolas 5]

Quote

>Or find better ways to encourage advancements other than government mandates,

Ah, but there's the rub. Better fuel economy is only an "advancement" if you care about future energy security, mitigating climate change or saving natural resources for the next generation. If your only goal is how well your Chrysler or Exxon stock will do in the next two years it's a terrible idea.

Unless gas prices rise due to a gradual decrease in subsdies and consumers start demanding higher fuel economy.

If they still insist on thinking only of short term profits, they'll fail. That is, unless the government bails them out again.

Here's free money, now do this, now you're bankrupt, here's free money. to keep you going Simply assinine.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 3,114]

>If they still insist on thinking only of short term profits, they'll fail.

Short term profits only cause failure if investors stick with them for the long term. An investor that invests just long enough to make money - demanding short-term strategies that maximize returns while sacrificing long term profitability - does much, much better than the investor who invests in a more stable commodity/stock with a better long term strategy. The ones that really get clobbered are the ones that stick with such fast-profit industries for too long. Witness the recent real estate bubble and Enron.

>Here's free money, now do this, now you're bankrupt, here's free money. to keep you
>going Simply assinine.

Agreed. Such plans can make people a lot of money in the short term but are a terrible basis for an energy policy.

[Coreece 190]

From Article:

Quote

The temporary halt in production for the second time this year is due to the over supply of the Volts.

Can't say that I'm surprised...It's not like I would've expected the targeted market for the Volt to, "buy American."

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Ah yes. Food. Another thing the government heavily subsidizes.

Wouldn't it be far easier if the government simply stopped subsidizing an item with one hand and then mandating requirements for that same item with the other?

Way to miss the point, Bolas.

[brenthutch 444]

Quote

...meanwhile Arctic sea ice hit a new record low for the 4th consecutive day, and is likely to hit another new record low today.

All the more surprising that giving the dire condition of the planet, one would think that the Volt would be selling like hot cakes (pardon the pun).

[kallend 2,147]

Quote

Quote

...meanwhile Arctic sea ice hit a new record low for the 4th consecutive day, and is likely to hit another new record low today.

All the more surprising that giving the dire condition of the planet, one would think that the Volt would be selling like hot cakes (pardon the pun).

Not all the while a large segment of the population is being hoodwinked into thinking there isn't a problem, by people just like you.

Yesterday set yet another record for smallest extent of Arctic sea ice since records began. Today is likely to, too.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,114]

>All the more surprising that giving the dire condition of the planet, one would think that
>the Volt would be selling like hot cakes (pardon the pun).

I know! It's almost like special interest groups are spending a lot of money to deny the problem.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Yesterday set yet another record for smallest extent of Arctic sea ice since records began. Today is likely to, too.

Yes. Since 1979. Brutal, bro. The lowest in 33 years.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[brenthutch 444]

His claim is consistent with the “HIGHIST TEMPATURE EVER RECORDED IN THE HISTORY OF THE EARTH….. In the last 20years" narrative, that the left is so prone to parroting. No mention that Antarctic is at near record levels, record low tornado activity, record low hurricane levels, sea level rise slowing, polar bear populations increasing, agriculture outputs at record levels, global temps at the lowest levels in this century.
According to “Scientist” we were not supposed to have ANY ice in the Artic by 2012 “This week, after reviewing his own new data, NASA climate scientist Jay Zwally said: "At this rate, the Arctic Ocean could be nearly ice-free at the end of summer by 2012”
More ice today than in the 20’s and 30’s.
The list of their unfulfilled predictions is as long as it is laughable.
They want credit for their heart being in the right place. I guess that makes sense, because their brains certainly are not.

[billvon 3,114]

>His claim is consistent with the “HIGHIST TEMPATURE EVER RECORDED IN THE
>HISTORY OF THE EARTH….. In the last 20years" narrative

No one made that claim.

>global temps at the lowest levels in this century.

Which planet would you be referring to? Because here on Earth 2011 was the 10th warmest year in recorded history. Or is this a "truthy" thing?

>According to “Scientist” we were not supposed to have ANY ice in the Artic by 2012

No one made that claim.

You're 0 for 3. Care to go 0 for 4?

[kallend 2,147]

Quote

Quote

Yesterday set yet another record for smallest extent of Arctic sea ice since records began. Today is likely to, too.

Yes. Since 1979. Brutal, bro. The lowest in 33 years.

ever read the history of the search for the northwest passage?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,147]

Started drinking early yesterday?

www.nasa.gov/images/content/416685main_20100108_Climate_1.jpg

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Yesterday set yet another record for smallest extent of Arctic sea ice since records began. Today is likely to, too.

Yes. Since 1979. Brutal, bro. The lowest in 33 years.

ever read the history of the search for the northwest passage?

Pretty soon the new woggies will be able to immigrate just like the old woggies did.

[kallend 2,147]

Quote

...meanwhile Arctic sea ice hit a new record low for the 4th consecutive day, and is likely to hit another new record low today.

All the more surprising that giving the dire condition of the planet, one would think that the Volt would be selling like hot cakes (pardon the pun).

[brenthutch 444]

http://notrickszone.com/2012/09/01/veteran-german-journalist-calls-claims-of-unprecendented-arctic-ice-melt-gross-nonsense/

[rhaig 0]

Quote

Wow, I was right. New records set on Friday AND On Saturday..

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3924887;search_string=weather%20is%20not%20climate;#3924887

--
Rob

[brenthutch 444]

Wow, I was right. New records set on Friday AND On Saturday..

[rhaig 0]

weather is climate when it suits him. but when weather is a cooling trend, it's not climate... then it's just weather.

--
Rob

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Yesterday set yet another record for smallest extent of Arctic sea ice since records began. Today is likely to, too.

Yes. Since 1979. Brutal, bro. The lowest in 33 years.

ever read the history of the search for the northwest passage?

Yep. Prior to aerial surveillance it was like going through a maze.

But you've brought up decrease in ice. Now, explain why the ice is so low this year. As a scientist and a scholar, I know that you are not the type of person to knee jerk "ice only disappears because it's warm."

My wife is hotter than your wife.