Stumpy 284
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QuoteQuoteWater should be free as we need water to live
Thats an odd argument.
Should food be free also?
Yes, DHS needs supply everyone who goes through airline security that prohibits carrying water as water is needed for life. Afterall we are guarnteed freedom of LIFE, Liberty and the Persuit of Happiness. They shouldn't deny me water, then only make water availible at $5 per bottle for me to purchase if I want. In fact, there should fountains directly past the screener.
NOw were should I send you the bill for the air you are breathing? You can talk about Oxygen Bars in another thread.
This discussion is about petitioning sellers about what price will be paid for their products, not anything else. People have that power, but are not organized enough to do so. If you disagree with this premise, then that's your opinion.
billvon 3,111
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>General Motors Corp's Cadillac ATS, a new compact sedan aimed at the popular BMW
>3 Series, was named 2013 North American Car of the Year by a jury of automotive
>writers.
Cool! So automotive writers think the ATS is the best car out there; drivers think the Volt is. There's a car for everyone.
>3 Series, was named 2013 North American Car of the Year by a jury of automotive
>writers.
Cool! So automotive writers think the ATS is the best car out there; drivers think the Volt is. There's a car for everyone.
billvon 3,111
>No one, exatly what I explained above via my illustration in how gasco plays with
>pricing. Gas price was hiked from $2.35 to $4.25 then reduced to $3.25 and people
>think they are getting a deal.
Ah. So it's all a vast conspiracy by the oil companies!
>Still, water out of the tap at the airport is far less expensive than buying bottled water
>at Starbucks at the airport.
Definitely true. No one had to make the bottles, fill them, transport then 350 miles, chill them, showcase them etc.
>IIt's a numbers game that the public has no control over due to the fact that THEY
>ARE NOT ORGANIZED in their buying of specific items.
Ever heard of Costco? Or are they in on the conspiracy too?
>Which is the point I'm discussing. In fact, the world should not even buy water in
>bottles. Water should be free as we need water to live
Communism is fine as a political theory but I find it has some problems when implemented in the real world.
>pricing. Gas price was hiked from $2.35 to $4.25 then reduced to $3.25 and people
>think they are getting a deal.
Ah. So it's all a vast conspiracy by the oil companies!
>Still, water out of the tap at the airport is far less expensive than buying bottled water
>at Starbucks at the airport.
Definitely true. No one had to make the bottles, fill them, transport then 350 miles, chill them, showcase them etc.
>IIt's a numbers game that the public has no control over due to the fact that THEY
>ARE NOT ORGANIZED in their buying of specific items.
Ever heard of Costco? Or are they in on the conspiracy too?
>Which is the point I'm discussing. In fact, the world should not even buy water in
>bottles. Water should be free as we need water to live
Communism is fine as a political theory but I find it has some problems when implemented in the real world.
OHCHUTE 0
Quote>No one, exatly what I explained above via my illustration in how gasco plays with
>pricing. Gas price was hiked from $2.35 to $4.25 then reduced to $3.25 and people
>think they are getting a deal.
Ah. So it's all a vast conspiracy by the oil companies!
>Still, water out of the tap at the airport is far less expensive than buying bottled water
>at Starbucks at the airport.
Definitely true. No one had to make the bottles, fill them, transport then 350 miles, chill them, showcase them etc.
>IIt's a numbers game that the public has no control over due to the fact that THEY
>ARE NOT ORGANIZED in their buying of specific items.
Ever heard of Costco? Or are they in on the conspiracy too?
>Which is the point I'm discussing. In fact, the world should not even buy water in
>bottles. Water should be free as we need water to live
Communism is fine as a political theory but I find it has some problems when implemented in the real world.
Come on Billvon you're not making sense. Costco is businesses example of bulk buying to reduce pricing. NFL fan placing demands at the counter that they won't pay $5 for a hot dog and will only pay $2 is the same example. What would the stadium owner do if he never sold one fringgin hot dog at $5 yet had 50,000 fans tell the counter people they'd pay $2 and if they wouldn't take $2 THE FAN WALKED AWAY.
The next game the dogs would be $2.
You are missing my point. People have a lot of power if they were organized. The owner of costco organized group buying, but he didn't reach critical mass until he had large numbers of subscribers to his plan.
So go start your NFL DOGCO buying service association, get 50,000 members and negotiate dog price for the benefit of your members OR induce 50,000 game gowers to do what I suggest if you could influence them to do so, which I don't think is possible. For crips sakes they're wearing cheese hats and paying $5 for a coke. Most are drunk, what do they care about what they are paying! In fact, they laugh about how much they do pay without doing one darn thing about it. Stadium Owners laugh all the way to the bank. Oil companies laugh all the way to the bank as they have PEGGED, what you will pay for a gallon based on buying preferences of the masses without any respect to how much gas there is.
billvon 3,111
>Costco is businesses example of bulk buying to reduce pricing.
Agreed. To use your language, they are organized in their buying of specific items, which they resell at a profit.
>NFL fan placing demands at the counter that they won't pay $5 for a hot dog and will
>only pay $2 is the same example. What would the stadium owner do if he never sold
>one fringgin hot dog at $5 yet had 50,000 fans tell the counter people they'd pay $2
>and if they wouldn't take $2 THE FAN WALKED AWAY.
In a free market? A clever entrepreneur sells hotdogs for $2 and takes all the stadium owner's business away. The stadium owner would then lower his price to remain competitive - or lose all his business. In the meantime people get $2 hot dogs.
However the stadium is not a free market; it is owned, and the stadium owner can call the police to remove the clever entrepreneur from his property.
That is not the case in the outside world. If gas company A sells gas for $5 a gallon, then gas company B sells it for $4 and takes all their business. Thus gas company A drops its price to remain competitive. It cannot drop its price below what it costs to make gasoline, because then it would lose money and go bankrupt. Those two competing pressures are what set the price of gas in the US.
>So go start your NFL DOGCO buying service association, get 50,000 members
>and negotiate dog price for the benefit of your members
Costco already does that for gasoline. They go directly to refineries, do buys of ten million dollars at a time, use the collective purchasing power of their customers to get prices down. And they can still only cut eight to ten cents off the price of gasoline. That's because they are already very, very close to the margin.
Agreed. To use your language, they are organized in their buying of specific items, which they resell at a profit.
>NFL fan placing demands at the counter that they won't pay $5 for a hot dog and will
>only pay $2 is the same example. What would the stadium owner do if he never sold
>one fringgin hot dog at $5 yet had 50,000 fans tell the counter people they'd pay $2
>and if they wouldn't take $2 THE FAN WALKED AWAY.
In a free market? A clever entrepreneur sells hotdogs for $2 and takes all the stadium owner's business away. The stadium owner would then lower his price to remain competitive - or lose all his business. In the meantime people get $2 hot dogs.
However the stadium is not a free market; it is owned, and the stadium owner can call the police to remove the clever entrepreneur from his property.
That is not the case in the outside world. If gas company A sells gas for $5 a gallon, then gas company B sells it for $4 and takes all their business. Thus gas company A drops its price to remain competitive. It cannot drop its price below what it costs to make gasoline, because then it would lose money and go bankrupt. Those two competing pressures are what set the price of gas in the US.
>So go start your NFL DOGCO buying service association, get 50,000 members
>and negotiate dog price for the benefit of your members
Costco already does that for gasoline. They go directly to refineries, do buys of ten million dollars at a time, use the collective purchasing power of their customers to get prices down. And they can still only cut eight to ten cents off the price of gasoline. That's because they are already very, very close to the margin.
OHCHUTE 0
Quote>Costco is businesses example of bulk buying to reduce pricing.
Agreed. To use your language, they are organized in their buying of specific items, which they resell at a profit.
>NFL fan placing demands at the counter that they won't pay $5 for a hot dog and will
>only pay $2 is the same example. What would the stadium owner do if he never sold
>one fringgin hot dog at $5 yet had 50,000 fans tell the counter people they'd pay $2
>and if they wouldn't take $2 THE FAN WALKED AWAY.
In a free market? A clever entrepreneur sells hotdogs for $2 and takes all the stadium owner's business away. The stadium owner would then lower his price to remain competitive - or lose all his business. In the meantime people get $2 hot dogs.
However the stadium is not a free market; it is owned, and the stadium owner can call the police to remove the clever entrepreneur from his property.
That is not the case in the outside world. If gas company A sells gas for $5 a gallon, then gas company B sells it for $4 and takes all their business. Thus gas company A drops its price to remain competitive. It cannot drop its price below what it costs to make gasoline, because then it would lose money and go bankrupt. Those two competing pressures are what set the price of gas in the US.
>So go start your NFL DOGCO buying service association, get 50,000 members
>and negotiate dog price for the benefit of your members
Costco already does that for gasoline. They go directly to refineries, do buys of ten million dollars at a time, use the collective purchasing power of their customers to get prices down. And they can still only cut eight to ten cents off the price of gasoline. That's because they are already very, very close to the margin.
You are all over the place in your reponses. Mixing one idea with something else.
Excluding your idea of hotdog competition on the stadium grounds, you say there is no way to get a lower price at the football stadium? Is this your position? I know it must be hard for you to stay focused but please let us know if this is your thinking about hot dog pricing?
billvon 3,111
>Excluding your idea of hotdog competition on the stadium grounds, you say there is
>no way to get a lower price at the football stadium?
There are plenty of ways. Government action, direct lobbying of the owner, action through the hot dog supplier (i.e. "we will not sell you hotdogs unless you sell them for $1) action through customers (i.e. "we will boycott unless you price them lower!") labor action (i.e. "we won't work unless hotdogs are cheaper!") indirect competition (i.e. "hotdogs for $0.50" right outside the door) etc.
These will work until they drive the price of the hotdog below what the stadium owner pays for them. At that point he will simply cease selling hotdogs, since he will be losing money.
>no way to get a lower price at the football stadium?
There are plenty of ways. Government action, direct lobbying of the owner, action through the hot dog supplier (i.e. "we will not sell you hotdogs unless you sell them for $1) action through customers (i.e. "we will boycott unless you price them lower!") labor action (i.e. "we won't work unless hotdogs are cheaper!") indirect competition (i.e. "hotdogs for $0.50" right outside the door) etc.
These will work until they drive the price of the hotdog below what the stadium owner pays for them. At that point he will simply cease selling hotdogs, since he will be losing money.
OHCHUTE 0
Quote>Excluding your idea of hotdog competition on the stadium grounds, you say there is
>no way to get a lower price at the football stadium?
There are plenty of ways. Government action, direct lobbying of the owner, action through the hot dog supplier (i.e. "we will not sell you hotdogs unless you sell them for $1) action through customers (i.e. "we will boycott unless you price them lower!") labor action (i.e. "we won't work unless hotdogs are cheaper!") indirect competition (i.e. "hotdogs for $0.50" right outside the door) etc.
These will work until they drive the price of the hotdog below what the stadium owner pays for them. At that point he will simply cease selling hotdogs, since he will be losing money.
OK so you do agree that if people were organized in such a way they could effect the lowering of the price. We're making progress. So my question now is: if you held this belief why did you type a bunch of stuff that never reflected your consenses to the fact that if people worked together for the common goal they could get stuff done to their advantage?
Here is an example of fans protesting pricing. Problem for these chaps, not everyone participated, and the action they took to protest was not effective, where boycotting the games till prices came down might have had an effect if all fans held off going. Owners had law enforcement on their side to remove protest signs from few protesters.
[/url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/9800503/Manchester-City-protest-banner-at-Arsenal-ticket-price-of-62-removed-by-police-at-Emirates-Stadium.html[url]
Thanks for agreeing.
billvon 3,111
>OK so you do agree that if people were organized in such a way they could effect the
>lowering of the price.
In a non-free market, agreed. In a free market prices will already be as low as possible driven by normal competition. (In other words, people are already organized the right way - they go for the lowest prices.)
>So my question now is: if you held this belief why did you type a bunch of stuff that
>never reflected your consenses to the fact that if people worked together for the
>common goal they could get stuff done to their advantage?
Because it's not valid in a free market. To be specific, it will not do what you want - you cannot collude on the demand side to significantly lower prices without lowering demand. However, if you do lower demand, you do absolutely reduce prices.
>lowering of the price.
In a non-free market, agreed. In a free market prices will already be as low as possible driven by normal competition. (In other words, people are already organized the right way - they go for the lowest prices.)
>So my question now is: if you held this belief why did you type a bunch of stuff that
>never reflected your consenses to the fact that if people worked together for the
>common goal they could get stuff done to their advantage?
Because it's not valid in a free market. To be specific, it will not do what you want - you cannot collude on the demand side to significantly lower prices without lowering demand. However, if you do lower demand, you do absolutely reduce prices.
OHCHUTE 0
Quote>OK so you do agree that if people were organized in such a way they could effect the
>lowering of the price.
In a non-free market, agreed. In a free market prices will already be as low as possible driven by normal competition. (In other words, people are already organized the right way - they go for the lowest prices.)
>So my question now is: if you held this belief why did you type a bunch of stuff that
>never reflected your consenses to the fact that if people worked together for the
>common goal they could get stuff done to their advantage?
Because it's not valid in a free market. To be specific, it will not do what you want - you cannot collude on the demand side to significantly lower prices without lowering demand. However, if you do lower demand, you do absolutely reduce prices.
You're saying the same thing as I, free market or not. We're talking market. IF the buyers don't buy naturally then seller might lower price to gain customers back. IF buyers conspire/ protest by not buying product till price is lower would most likely have same effect. If buyers find lowest offering price, then that works to their advantage. GE does this via reverse auction technology. Same thing I"m talking about. Of course seller can withdraw. If so, buyer ups his offer price if product is needed. It comes down to who holds who hostage. The buyers of the seller, or the seller of the buyers.
Thats an odd argument.
Should food be free also?
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