Arctic sea ice

[kallend 2,148]

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Antarctic Sea Ice extent has never been as much on this date.

How is the MASS of Antarctic ice doing??

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[masterblaster72 0]

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>No, everyone knows that Antarctica is the continent. There is no continent at the Arctic.

It's like the inflammable/nonflammable discussion all over again! The North Pole is apparently both noncontinent and incontinent.

Well... that's a pissah!


Chuck

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[masterblaster72 0]

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http://climatechangeskeptic.blogspot.com/

LOL wtf. This blog is hilarious. It doesn't take long to get to the laughs. From the top of the page:


Sunday, August 1, 2010
It's been over two years since I posted

It's been over two years since I posted to my blog, but I'm going to try to start up again.


Posted by ClimateWatcher at 10:54 AM 12 comments:

Monday, March 24, 2008
NOAA Repots Worlds Oceans Cooling

The IPPC 2007 report didn't mention Antarctica except to say there were no measurable changes there. But as usual the IPPC wanted to cherry pick research. A 2004 study of Antarctica found that since 1850 the average temperature has dropped 2 degrees C. That's 3.6 degrees F. Seeing how the IPPC frets about a .5 degree rise in temperature anywhere else in the world, interesting they don't want to even think about a 3.6 degree drop.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/j358561157054466/
Posted by ClimateWatcher at 11:16 AM 6 comments:


Friday, July 6, 2007
The IPCC and it's Fuzzy Math


....

LOL

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[lawrocket 3]

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How is the MASS of Antarctic ice doing??

Mass of ice?

Are you talking Antarctic “sea ice” or “shelf ice?” Tough to say with the sea ice, but it seems to be more now than a week ago. Recall that Antarctic ice is not so susceptible to wind as Arctic ice. And not all ice is equal (land ice and sea ice form differently)

But considering Antarctica’s average temperature is somewhere around negative 50 to negative 60 degrees Fahrenheit one can reckon that mass isn’t going anywhere. Until and unless you understand sublimation processes can account for ice loss. Put the average temperature to about minus twenty and we would expect to see more ice accretion (at minus 40 almost all water vapor has precipitated out.)

But it also depends on where you are asking about the ice mass. East or West? Both seem to differ in results.

According to analysis of GRACE data, there is significant ice loss in many places. Yet, there are also critical corrections that must be made to the raw data. Such as post-glacial rebound. Altimetry is inconsistent.

But if you can explain how 300 gigatons of ice are lost in a place that averages -50 continent wide, I’d be willing to read it. Any explanation that involves “melting” won’t get too far, though. A warmer Antarctica would be more shelf ice and less sea ice.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,118]

>But it also depends on where you are asking about the ice mass. East or West? Both
>seem to differ in results.

Yep. And we know amazingly little about the continent as a whole. ICESat got us some good data but went offline in 2010 - and won't be replaced until 2016 so there will be both a discontinuity and a recalibration issue. GRACE gets us reasonable mass data but at low resolutions. And of course we haven't even explored half the continent ourselves.

[kallend 2,148]

Meanwhile in the Arctic:

nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/files/2000/08/Figure3.png

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,118]

>Meanwhile in the Arctic:

Right, but to Law's point, sea ice extent does not equal ice mass. If the entire Antarctic continent froze solid tomorrow and stopped dumping ice into the ocean via glaciers, sea ice extent would decrease. Thus "ice extent is decreasing - it must be getting warmer!" doesn't work in that case.

[lawrocket 3]

I noted the Arctic. And then I noted that the highest extents of Antarctic sea ice have been when there are the lowest extents of Arctic sea ice.

2007 may have been a coincidence. But twice in five years shows (to me) a correlation. There's probably an underlying causative factor we have no idea about.

And lookie here: http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/wksst/wksst.20120912.gif

The Antarctic doesn't even have a temperature anomaly to explain it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[brenthutch 444]

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Meanwhile in the Arctic:

nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/files/2000/08/Figure3.png

If the Artic is experiencing unprecedented loss of ice it must be due to something other than temperature. NOAA (you know those government climate scientists) has come out and stated that this year’s global temperatures have been exceeded by nine other years. http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2012/8

[billvon 3,118]

> NOAA (you know those government climate scientists) has come out and stated that
>this year’s global temperatures have been exceeded by nine other years.

Interesting that you think that 2012 is over. Using some sort of GOP calendar?

[kallend 2,148]

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Meanwhile in the Arctic:

nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/files/2000/08/Figure3.png

If the Artic is experiencing unprecedented loss of ice it must be due to something other than temperature. NOAA (you know those government climate scientists) has come out and stated that this year’s global temperatures have been exceeded by nine other years. http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2012/8

So what?

Suggest you take a course in statistics, then you might just avoid making an ass of yourself.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

Now this is what I'm talking about. The National Snow and Ice Data Center. You'd think they would have data on the Antarctic available. Nope. They're front page does have a story: http://nsidc.org/

Nothing about large ice extent in the Antarctic (I've searched for the stats - aint there) but about how thinning ice in the Antarctic could threaten Emperor Penguins with extinction. Really.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[brenthutch 444]

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> NOAA (you know those government climate scientists) has come out and stated that
>this year’s global temperatures have been exceeded by nine other years.

Interesting that you think that 2012 is over. Using some sort of GOP calendar?

Well Excuse ME!
If you bothered to look at the link, you would see it was a year-to-date comparison. Apples to apples if you will.

[billvon 3,118]

>If you bothered to look at the link, you would see it was a year-to-date comparison.

Aha! So it's the kind of data you reject by claiming people are "reaching for straws" when it shows that the climate is warming. For example:

=========================
Feeling the heat: First half of 2012 is warmest on record

Although temperatures have dropped across the Midwest and Northeast, irrigation ponds in southern Illinois are drying up and crops such as corn and soybeans are shriveling in the fields.

It's been a hot year.

In fact, the first six months of 2012 accounted for the warmest January-through-June period on record for the contiguous U.S., the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced Monday.

The national temperatures averaged 52.9 degrees — "4.5 degrees above the long-term average," NOAA said in a statement. "Most of the contiguous U.S. was record and near-record warm for the six-month period, except the Pacific Northwest." East of the Rockies, 28 states were "record warm," NOAA said.
===========================

[lawrocket 3]

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First half of 2012 is warmest on record

In the US. Elsewhere in the world has been pretty bloody cold.

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crops such as corn and soybeans are shriveling in the fields.

http://www.agweb.com/blog/Farmland_Forecast_148/

Both corn and soybeans are actually doing better than predicted. The harvest is earlier this year, and prices of both soybeans and corn are dropping because of this. The increase in prices this year happened because of speculators forecasting misery with corn and soy.

Here's what happened: Missouri, Kansas and Nebraska got clobbered. But the gulf and Atlantic states, as well as Iowa, North Dakota, Wisconsin and particularly Minnesota KILLED with corn this year.

That Texas drought of last year? Famine led to feast. You're reporting on rhetoric, Bill. But nationwide, it's been a top ten ever harvest for corn.

Also note - it hasn't been this warm in the US since the 1930s.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,118]

>In the US. Elsewhere in the world has been pretty bloody cold.

Agreed. I wasn't posting that to say "look! proof that this is the hottest year ever!" I'm posting it to demonstrate how so many people see only what they want to see in the data.

[lawrocket 3]

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Meanwhile in the Arctic:

nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/files/2000/08/Figure3.png

John:

I’ve been thinking…

The mass of Antarctic sea ice is at 16.15 million km^2. It’s about a million km^2 more than the highest ice extent recorded in the Arctic since 1979.

Today is September 19. Arctic ice extent is lower than has been measured since 1979. September 21 is the equinox, meaning the sun will set at the north pole in two days. And the opportunity for the sun’s energy absorption is steadily decreasing.

Meanwhile, in Antarctica, there’s a lot more sunlight bearing down. Days are much longer and the sun’s angle more direct. And a massive ice sheet albedo to deflect those solar rays back into space before they can become LIR.

What are your thoughts on the balance of the earth’s climate? (Note – the earth is NEVER in balance). Would 3 million square kilometers of albedo on a setting sun have a greater effect on global ocean heat absorption than 16 million square kilometers of albedo on a sun that is rising steadily?

It seems intuitive that that the increased amount of albedo in the Antarctic is more than making up for the decreased albedo in the Arctic. But, sometimes counterintuitive works. (And why is this data not on the NSIDC website? The same satellites that measure Arctic ice measure Antarctic ice 45 minutes later.) Could you explain how the sea ice in a darkening Arctic is more important than the sea ice in a brightening Antarctic?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

Absolutely. Much like when 49 states had snow a year or two ago people pointed to that and said, "Look how how in Europe!"

Neither side is immune. Both sides do it heavily.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[brenthutch 444]

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>If you bothered to look at the link, you would see it was a year-to-date comparison.

Aha! So it's the kind of data you reject by claiming people are "reaching for straws" when it shows that the climate is warming. For example:

=========================
Feeling the heat: First half of 2012 is warmest on record

Although temperatures have dropped across the Midwest and Northeast, irrigation ponds in southern Illinois are drying up and crops such as corn and soybeans are shriveling in the fields.

It's been a hot year.

In fact, the first six months of 2012 accounted for the warmest January-through-June period on record for the contiguous U.S., the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced Monday.

The national temperatures averaged 52.9 degrees — "4.5 degrees above the long-term average," NOAA said in a statement. "Most of the contiguous U.S. was record and near-record warm for the six-month period, except the Pacific Northwest." East of the Rockies, 28 states were "record warm," NOAA said.
===========================

News flash....the contiguous 48 is not the globe.

[billvon 3,118]

>News flash....the contiguous 48 is not the globe.

Thank you for demonstrating my point.

[brenthutch 444]

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>News flash....the contiguous 48 is not the globe.

Thank you for demonstrating my point.

From NOAA

•The combined global land and ocean average surface temperature for January–August 2012 was the ninth warmest such period on record, at 0.56°C (1.01°F

Pay close attention to the YEAR TO DATE info as well as the GLOBAL reference, and while you are at it note that there have been nine other years where the Jan-Aug temps have been higher

[billvon 3,118]

>From NOAA

Yes, you are demonstrating my point once again. Any data that supports your point is defended no matter what it says; any data that does not support it is nitpicked any way you can.

[popsjumper 2]

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Any data that supports your point is defended no matter what it says; any data that does not support it is nitpicked any way you can.

The profundity is remarkable.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[brenthutch 444]

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>From NOAA

Yes, you are demonstrating my point once again. Any data that supports your point is defended no matter what it says; any data that does not support it is nitpicked any way you can.

How about this data, again from NASA so it must be true.

"Reuters news service filed a September 21 report based on NASA's video admission titled: “NASA says Arctic cyclone played 'key role' in record ice melt.” The news segment details how the Arctic sea ice was reduced due to “a powerful cyclone that scientists say 'wreaked havoc' on ice cover during the month of August.” (Reuters on “Arctic Cyclone” -- 0:47 second long segment -- Rob Muir reporting.) "

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Only a couple more degrees and we will be able to export tar sands bitumen via the arctic. When the permafrost melts we are going to grow rice and feed the world.