livendive 8 #101 August 13, 2012 QuoteIn the meantime, at least Romney and Ryan have put something out there for discussion. Unlike the democrats and Obama. But look who gets attacked. Pretty pathetic isn't it? One side gets attacked for what they have put out there, the other side gets attacked for what the haven't. Welcome to American politics, where civil debate and compromise are at an all-time low. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #102 August 13, 2012 >One side gets attacked for what they have put out there, the other side gets attacked >for what the haven't. Can you imagine how loud the right wingers would be screaming if Obama proposed a budget and then said "well it's not real, it's just out there for discussion?" They'd be saying "Obama has a fictional budget! Maybe it's for fictional people in his fictional second term!" etc etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #103 August 13, 2012 QuoteIn the meantime, at least Romney and Ryan have put something out there for discussion. Unlike the democrats and Obama. But look who gets attacked. Pretty pathetic isn't it? Pssst … Obama did release a budget proposal for 2013.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #104 August 13, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I fail to see how the lack of budget plan from the Democrats (as pathetic as that may be) invalidates the smoke and mirrors of the Ryan plan. It's not unreasonable for people to ask what these loopholes, etc that will be closed/addressed are. Since that seems to be the linchpin on whether or not the plan is actually financially viable. Ian ps: I plan to end world hunger I will do that by feeding people. The point is, Obama won't put a plan out there for us to look at. Strange youu would think it's more important for a guy who is runnung for President to present a more detailed budget but are OK with the guy who is President using smoke and mirrors. *sigh* I never said it was ok the Dems didn't have a good plan. In fact, I called it pathetic in the very post you responded to. That said it STILL doesn't make the Ryan "plan" any better. It's more like the Ryan "idea/concept". When it comes to details, no-one seems to be delivering the specifics on the HOW. That's the problem. Ian Well, how the heck are we supposed to know what's in it unless we pass it? (I think that's the new standard.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #105 August 13, 2012 Quote Quote I fail to see how the lack of budget plan from the Democrats (as pathetic as that may be) invalidates the smoke and mirrors of the Ryan plan. It's not unreasonable for people to ask what these loopholes, etc that will be closed/addressed are. Since that seems to be the linchpin on whether or not the plan is actually financially viable. Ian ps: I plan to end world hunger I will do that by feeding people. The point is, Obama won't put a plan out there for us to look at. Strange youu would think it's more important for a guy who is runnung for President to present a more detailed budget but are OK with the guy who is President using smoke and mirrors. That's incorrect. He sent his plan to Congress to be voted on. It was stalled by the Republicans.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #106 August 13, 2012 Quote Yep, Ryan's "kill Medicare to pay for tax cuts for the very wealthy" plan will go over nicely with the AARP crowd, who vote in large numbers. Is this the 710 billion Obama cut from medicare that your trying to plant on Ryan? You just being funny right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #107 August 13, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I fail to see how the lack of budget plan from the Democrats (as pathetic as that may be) invalidates the smoke and mirrors of the Ryan plan. It's not unreasonable for people to ask what these loopholes, etc that will be closed/addressed are. Since that seems to be the linchpin on whether or not the plan is actually financially viable. Ian ps: I plan to end world hunger I will do that by feeding people. The point is, Obama won't put a plan out there for us to look at. Strange youu would think it's more important for a guy who is runnung for President to present a more detailed budget but are OK with the guy who is President using smoke and mirrors. *sigh* I never said it was ok the Dems didn't have a good plan. In fact, I called it pathetic in the very post you responded to. That said it STILL doesn't make the Ryan "plan" any better. It's more like the Ryan "idea/concept". When it comes to details, no-one seems to be delivering the specifics on the HOW. That's the problem. Ian Here is an analysis of the effect of the Ryan plan from a non-partisan source. Nice transfer from the poor to the rich. Clicky Of course, we know that Mitt said he's "not concerned about the very poor".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #108 August 13, 2012 Did you read the note on the bottom of your own graphic? More smoke and mirrors with some sardonic music and strobe lights added in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #109 August 13, 2012 QuoteDid you read the note on the bottom of your own graphic? More smoke and mirrors with some sardonic music and strobe lights added in. Well, if Mitt would SPECIFY then unspecified expenditure wouldn't need to be excluded. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #110 August 14, 2012 Quote That's incorrect. He sent his plan to Congress to be voted on. It was stalled by the Republicans. Aren't you talking about the proposal for which a vote was taken, and nobody, not even Dems voted for it? Isn't it the one that Repub wanted to force a vote, but Dems didn't want to vote on? The president can't get his party members to even want to vote on his budget proposals.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #111 August 14, 2012 In 2008, Ryan voted for TARP. Later that year, he voted for loans to help rescue the auto industry, and his vote came after Romney wrote the New York Times op-ed titled “Let Detroit go bankrupt.” He also voted for Medicare Part D - a very expensive government program. Seems like a standard issue GOP hypocrite to me.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #112 August 14, 2012 Quote well it's not real, it's just out there for discussion?" What's not real about Romney's Tax Plan? You can find it here: Believe in AmericaWe are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #113 August 14, 2012 Quote Pssst … Obama did release a budget proposal for 2013. Just the latest one that didn't get a single vote in the House or Senate.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #114 August 14, 2012 Quote Did you read the note on the bottom of your own graphic? Why bother? It's a non-partisan source. We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #115 August 14, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I can't wait for Ryan and Biden to have a debate. October 11, Kentucky. I am looking forward to this too, but probably not for the right reason. Perv. I'm already fantasizing about what color of tie each of them will wear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #116 August 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteIn the meantime, at least Romney and Ryan have put something out there for discussion. Unlike the democrats and Obama. But look who gets attacked. Pretty pathetic isn't it? Pssst … Obama did release a budget proposal for 2013. Pssst...so did I. Neither Obama nor I got any votes. His own party wouldn't even support him. That's even more pathetic than to have just continued without one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #117 August 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteDid you read the note on the bottom of your own graphic? More smoke and mirrors with some sardonic music and strobe lights added in. Well, if Mitt would SPECIFY then unspecified expenditure wouldn't need to be excluded. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot. Is this the part when you run off the rails and start accusing others of exactly what you just did? Just wondering if we have gotten there yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #118 August 14, 2012 QuoteQuote Pssst … Obama did release a budget proposal for 2013. Just the latest one that didn't get a single vote in the House or Senate. I wonder if in the entire history in the U.S. a president has ever proposd a budget so horrible that it didn't get a single vote. Even from members of the Presidents own party. What a complete and utter embarrassment. And the left wingers act like they are proud of him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #119 August 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteIn the meantime, at least Romney and Ryan have put something out there for discussion. Unlike the democrats and Obama. But look who gets attacked. Pretty pathetic isn't it? Pssst … Obama did release a budget proposal for 2013. Pssst...so did I. Neither Obama nor I got any votes. His own party wouldn't even support him. That's even more pathetic than to have just continued without one. I see. So now you're changing your position from claiming that Obama didn't release a budget proposal to claiming that his proposal didn't get any votes.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #120 August 14, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dbzpuqWo6yU "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #121 August 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIn the meantime, at least Romney and Ryan have put something out there for discussion. Unlike the democrats and Obama. But look who gets attacked. Pretty pathetic isn't it? Pssst … Obama did release a budget proposal for 2013. Pssst...so did I. Neither Obama nor I got any votes. His own party wouldn't even support him. That's even more pathetic than to have just continued without one. I see. So now you're changing your position from claiming that Obama didn't release a budget proposal to claiming that his proposal didn't get any votes. Sorry, meant to say the Democratically controlled Congress hasn't passed a budget in 3 years. The last one Obama proposed was defeated 97-0. That's has got to be a first in U.S. history. But of course the left wing loons will blame it all on the Republicans. How convenient. I can't figure out this blind spot for Obama. The guy is a Community Organizer. He's likely never had to develop a budget in his entire life, either for a business, since he's never had any business experience, nor likely in his own personal life. Then he surrounds himself with people like Geitner, who can't even figure out how to do his own taxes and surprise, surprise, we get a budget proposal so ridiculous that not a single Democrat votes for it. Then you left wingers feel justified to criticize the Romney Budget/Ryan proposal that hasn't even been developed or released, yet. But that doesn't stop the left wing parrots from screeching about it anyway. It's as if they are so frightened by the prospect that Obama really could lose now that Ryan has entered the race that they will do and say anything to prevent them from facing up to the reality that Obama, the first Black President, has been a complete and utter failure. Sure he's had some victories, but he's also had many failures. The greatest of which I believe is his inability to gain the confidence of the business community for his ideas. Business people are mostly biding their time, waiting to see if he gets re-elected and afraid of what a lame duck Obama will do to their business models and their financial plans. We wonder if consumers will be able to afford our products and re afraid of how all the aggressiveness of the EPA in recent years will impact our business. And no, that doesn't mean we want dirty water or unclean air. It means that many of these regulations cost more and more money to comply with. That means that the prices of our products have to be increased which means fewer people can afford them, so they put off purchases "until next year". This is almost a daily occurrence in my business and it affects us drastically in our bottom line. It makes us look for ways to reduce our overhead and direct costs. One of the ways we do that is by outsourcing and changing employees status' to independent contractors. It's not just a simple matter of everyone in an industry being subjected to the same rules, it's being able to deliver a product to a consumer at a price that makes sense for them to buy. If the price exceeds the perceived value, the consumer simply won't buy or will look for cheaper products. If those cheaper products come from an overseas manufacturer, then that what they will buy and another American job is lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #122 August 14, 2012 I do not think Obama thinks he needs a budget Why? Because no one built anything buy themselves so, by extension, it is all the governments to start with Quote Obama: "A New Vision Of An America In Which Prosperity Is Shared" Equality of outcome http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/08/13/obama_a_new_vision_of_an_america_which_prosperity_is_shared.html"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #123 August 14, 2012 QuoteIn 2008, Ryan voted for TARP. Later that year, he voted for loans to help rescue the auto industry, and his vote came after Romney wrote the New York Times op-ed titled “Let Detroit go bankrupt.” He also voted for Medicare Part D - a very expensive government program. Seems like a standard issue GOP hypocrite to me. Obama promised: Double the Peace Corps (or corpse as he would say) Expand the child and dependent care credit Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners Provide option for a pre-filled-out tax form Create a mortgage interest tax credit for non-itemizers Require automatic enrollment in 401(k) plans Create a retirement savings tax credit for low incomes End income tax for seniors making less than $50,000 End no-bid contracts above $25,000 Create a $60 billion bank to fund roads and bridges Sign the Employee Free Choice Act, making it easier for workers to unionize Forbid companies in bankruptcy from giving executives bonuses Allow workers to claim more in unpaid wages and bAllow imported prescription drugs benefits in bankruptcy court Prevent drug companies from blocking generic drugs Allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices Appoint federal-level coordinator to oversee all federal autism efforts Double federal funding for cancer research Direct the Secretary of Health and Human Services to conduct a comprehensive study of federal cancer initiatives Provide the CDC $50 million in new funding to determine the most effective approaches for cancer patient care Fully fund the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) Create a National Commission on People with Disabilities, Employment, and Social Security Change federal rules so small businesses owned by people with disabilities can get preferential treatment for federal contracts. Reduce the threshhold for the Family and Medical Leave Act from companies with 50 employees to companies with 25 employees Provide a $1.5 billion fund to help states launch programs for paid family and medical leave Require employers to provide seven paid sick days per year Expand the Family Medical Leave Act to include leave for domestic violence or sexual assault Form international group to help Iraq refugees Work with Russia to move nuclear weapons off hair-trigger alert Close the Guantanamo Bay Detention Center Develop an alternative to President Bush's Military Commissions Act on handling detainees Secure ratification of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT) Seek independent watchdog agency to investigate congressional ethics violations Allow five days of public comment before signing bills Tougher rules against revolving door for lobbyists and former officials Double funding for afterschool programs Expand the Employment Non-Discrimination Act to include sexual orientation and gender identity Allow bankruptcy judges to modify terms of a home mortgage Increase the minimum wage to $9.50 an hour Restore Superfund program so that polluters pay for clean-ups Support tax deduction for artists (can you say panderbear?) Pay for the national service plan without increasing the deficit Reduce the number of middle managers in the federal workforce Strengthen the Age Discrimination in Employment Act Give annual "State of the World" address Reduce earmarks to 1994 levels Ban the permanent replacement of striking workers Establish a low carbon fuel standard Enact windfall profits tax for oil companies Create cap and trade system with interim goals to reduce global warming Use revenue from cap and trade to support clean energy and environmental restoration Require plug-in fleet at the White House Require new federal fleet purchases to be half plug-in hybrids or electric vehicles Require more flex-fuel cars for the federal government Mandate flexible fuel vehicles by 2012 Double federal program to help "reverse" commuters who go from city to suburbs Devote federal resources to promote cellulosic ethanol Allow penalty-free hardship withdrawals from retirement accounts in 2008 and 2009 No family making less than $250,000 will see "any form of tax increase." Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN ................And that is just PART of the first two pages, of a much bigger list. Please remind me just who is the hypocrite? And before you go on caterwauling about an intransigent Republican party may I remind you that Obama had both the House of Representative AND a filibuster proof Senate for nearly half of his term. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #124 August 14, 2012 Quote I do not think Obama thinks he needs a budget Why? Because no one built anything buy themselves so, by extension, it is all the governments to start with Quote Obama: "A New Vision Of An America In Which Prosperity Is Shared" Equality of outcome http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/08/13/obama_a_new_vision_of_an_america_which_prosperity_is_shared.html "To each according to their abilities and to each according to their needs!" Where have I heard that before? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #125 August 14, 2012 Being thwarted at every turn by a Republican House whose primary stated goal is to make him a one term president, rather than to do what's best for the country, is hardly an indictment of the president.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
