jclalor 12 #1 August 8, 2012 I guess this guy has no qualms about lying, but then again, desperate times call for desperate measures. Obama is doing nothing more than what Romney wanted to do as Governor, but Flipper don't talk much about those days does he. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/07/2938429/romneys-welfare-to-work-attack.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #2 August 8, 2012 OMG!! Politicians not being quite accurate.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #3 August 8, 2012 Yeah, next thing you know they will be claiming, through a surrogate, that their opponent didn't pay taxes for 10 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #4 August 8, 2012 QuoteYeah, next thing you know they will be claiming, through a surrogate, that their opponent didn't pay taxes for 10 years. Ya Or Romeny killed somebodies wife because that family lost its health care"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #5 August 8, 2012 Whatever happened to Republican support of states' rights? Disappeared in a fit of ODS?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #6 August 8, 2012 That's a pretty silly question coming from someone who supports ACA. Limiting the power that was given the Fed. By expansion of the Commerce Clause would be a good start at returning power to the States. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #7 August 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteYeah, next thing you know they will be claiming, through a surrogate, that their opponent didn't pay taxes for 10 years. Ya Or Romeny killed somebodies wife because that family lost its health care I've heard Romney is the leader of a religious cult and performs blood sacrifices on women and babies. Romney clearly hates women and babies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #8 August 8, 2012 QuoteThat's a pretty silly question coming from someone who supports ACA. Limiting the power that was given the Fed. By expansion of the Commerce Clause would be a good start at returning power to the States. Nope - just pointing out yet more hypocrisy from the GOP. My support (or not) for ACA has nothing to do with it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #9 August 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteYeah, next thing you know they will be claiming, through a surrogate, that their opponent didn't pay taxes for 10 years. Ya Or Romeny killed somebodies wife because that family lost its health care I've heard Romney is the leader of a religious cult and performs blood sacrifices on women and babies. Romney clearly hates women and babies. Don't forget the magic underwear.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #10 August 8, 2012 Well, at least Obama kept his promise to change politics and bring about a more civil way to do things...... He will be know forever as the great uniter...... "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #11 August 8, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Yeah, next thing you know they will be claiming, through a surrogate, that their opponent didn't pay taxes for 10 years. Ya Or Romeny killed somebodies wife because that family lost its health care I've heard Romney is the leader of a religious cult and performs blood sacrifices on women and babies. Romney clearly hates women and babies. Don't forget the magic underwear. Romney also wants to make it easier to exterminate black babies. Romney hates black babies. Oh, wait..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #12 August 10, 2012 mediamatters.org/mobile/blog/2012/08/09/today-in-dishonest-fox-charts-government-aid-ed/189223 Dishonest FOX charts - Oh the Humanity!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #13 August 10, 2012 Quote I guess this guy has no qualms about lying, but then again, desperate times call for desperate measures. Obama is doing nothing more than what Romney wanted to do as Governor, but Flipper don't talk much about those days does he. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/07/2938429/romneys-welfare-to-work-attack.html Wrong. Robert Rector, who wrote many of the requirements in the welfare reform law, is more familiar with the details than the Miami Herald, and recently told Judy Woodruff in an interview on the PBS Newshour that Romney's charges were absoutely true, and that the counter-claims about governors were false: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/social_issues/july-dec12/poverty_08-09.html The video and text are there, here is a highlight: QuoteJUDY WOODRUFF: Robert Rector, how do you see what Governor Romney is charging? ROBERT RECTOR, Heritage Foundation: Well, these are the work requirements that were put in the TANF law in 1996. I happened to have written most of these requirements. And these were the motor that drove that law to reduce poverty and to reduce welfare dependence by requiring welfare recipients to work or prepare for work -- or at least part of them -- as a condition for receiving aid. What the Obama administration has done is taken these and said, they're gone. They are out of picture. They no longer have any meaning in law. And we're going to replace them with something else. But you should trust us that we're not planning to really alter the program. Their action was completely illegal, and it violates and wipes out the entire core of reform. JUDY WOODRUFF: Peter Edelman, as I understand it, the White House is saying that -- that is not what they have done. So, explain why what Mr. Rector is saying isn't correct, if you believe it's not. PETER EDELMAN: It is not correct. What going on here in terms of the Republican attack on these guidelines is pure politics. It's election-year politics. This guidance from HHS says over and over again, repeatedly, that its aim is to improve employment outcomes -- I'm reading from it -- for needy families. It's to get more flexibility so there that there can be -- make it easier to get people to get off of TANF, instead of having work requirements in specific conditions -- situations where there's a waiver and that it's supervised by the federal government. JUDY WOODRUFF: In other words, giving -- as I understand, it's giving states more flexibility to figure out ways to get people to work. ROBERT RECTOR: It's allowing states to be exempted from the participation rates entirely. They say that they will waive or do away with all of Section 407. That's the entire work requirement in the bill. Every aspect, every clause, every phrase is now invalid. It no longer is binding. It's gone. PETER EDELMAN: That's not true. ROBERT RECTOR: It's absolutely true. And they're going to replace it with something that they will design unilaterally, with no input from Congress, and that will be something that will be far more lenient than the existing law. The left wing of the Democratic Party has opposed this law from the beginning. Half the Democratic Party voted against it in '96. They attempted to repeal it in 2002. They were unable. They have now used a bureaucratic tactic to wipe it out.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #14 August 10, 2012 Quotemediamatters.org/mobile/blog/2012/08/09/today-in-dishonest-fox-charts-government-aid-ed/189223 Dishonest FOX charts - Oh the Humanity! There seems to be no assertion on that page about dishonesty. It looks like their complaint is that the reason for the increase is not described, so what? There's no gotcha there.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #15 August 10, 2012 QuoteWrong. From the good folks at fact check, http://factcheck.org/2012/08/does-obamas-plan-gut-welfare-reform/ Also Politifact.com http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/07/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-barack-obamas-plan-abandons-tenet/ Do you have any no-partisan sources? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #16 August 10, 2012 Quote QuoteWrong. From the good folks at fact check, http://factcheck.org/2012/08/does-obamas-plan-gut-welfare-reform/ Also Politifact.com http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/07/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-barack-obamas-plan-abandons-tenet/ Do you have any no-partisan sources? fact check and politi fact are no longer unbiased Been proven too many time lately"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #17 August 10, 2012 >fact check and politi fact are no longer unbiased To someone on the far right, it would sure seem that way. After you've been far right for that long, the center (or as the Bush administration referred to it, "the reality based community") looks aaaaawfuly far to the left. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #18 August 10, 2012 Quote QuoteWrong. From the good folks at fact check, http://factcheck.org/2012/08/does-obamas-plan-gut-welfare-reform/ Also Politifact.com http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/07/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-barack-obamas-plan-abandons-tenet/ Do you have any no-partisan sources? All the biased folks at your so-called "fact check" did was regurgitate the liberal talking points. They might as well have just said that Obama says it isn't true and that is good enough for them. That's not fact checking, that is getting the opposition's statement (lie) on the matter. Don't have a rebuttal to the guy that wrote the work rule requirements, eh? Just like Peter Edelman and Judy Woodruff, they did not address the specifics of Robert Rector's assertions. Rector's assertions did deal directly with the claims of those complaining about the truthfulness of the Romney ad.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #19 August 10, 2012 Quote>fact check and politi fact are no longer unbiased To someone on the far right, it would sure seem that way. After you've been far right for that long, the center (or as the Bush administration referred to it, "the reality based community") looks aaaaawfuly far to the left. Most to nearly all sources are biased. So why not tell us where Robert Rector is wrong?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #20 August 10, 2012 Quote Quote I guess this guy has no qualms about lying, but then again, desperate times call for desperate measures. Obama is doing nothing more than what Romney wanted to do as Governor, but Flipper don't talk much about those days does he. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/07/2938429/romneys-welfare-to-work-attack.html Wrong. Robert Rector, who... "ROBERT RECTOR, Heritage Foundation:" You could quote someone with credibility as non-partisan.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #21 August 10, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I guess this guy has no qualms about lying, but then again, desperate times call for desperate measures. Obama is doing nothing more than what Romney wanted to do as Governor, but Flipper don't talk much about those days does he. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/07/2938429/romneys-welfare-to-work-attack.html Wrong. Robert Rector, who... "ROBERT RECTOR, Heritage Foundation:" You could quote someone with credibility as non-partisan. Who is non-partisan? He is not just a commentator, he was there. He knows his way around the law unlike any of us do. Because of his first hand knowledge about the details, he has credibility that is not diminished just because of him being a republican. It seems that when you got nothing, you pull out the "source is partisan" argument. That wallows in a vast sea of lameness.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #22 August 10, 2012 So far we have: "You have to ignore FactCheck and PolitiFact because they're biased and they just regurgitate liberal talking points" "You have to listen to Robert Rector, who's from a far right wing organization - but you have to ignore his bias." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #23 August 11, 2012 Quote So far we have: "You have to ignore FactCheck and PolitiFact because they're biased and they just regurgitate liberal talking points" "You have to listen to Robert Rector, who's from a far right wing organization - but you have to ignore his bias." So far you have provided a lousy comparison. You avoided your normal temptation to use an analogy, well done on that.I don't say anyone should ignore his bias. I say that bias is not enough to ignore his arguments because he was a key player/author of the law in question. The so-called fact checkers libs are inclined to believe did no substantive analysis, just regurgitating of the claims, instead making a conclusion without real fact checking.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #24 August 11, 2012 >I say that bias is not enough to ignore his arguments because he was a key >player/author of the law in question. He was nowhere near the recent changes to the law. Thus while he can be considered an expert on the original law, he has no special knowledge of the changes made. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #25 August 11, 2012 Quote>I say that bias is not enough to ignore his arguments because he was a key >player/author of the law in question. He was nowhere near the recent changes to the law. Thus while he can be considered an expert on the original law, he has no special knowledge of the changes made. Thanks for the laugh! As an expert on the original law, he has rather "special"/specialist ability to provide analysis of what the changes proposed really mean. If not, then nobody does except those, as you contend, that are involved with the changes, which happen to all be libs. That is convenient logic of yours. But of course we aren't talking about changes to the "law", as that would require the congress to be a part of it. No, we're talking about changes in how it is implemented at the executive - cabinet branch level, the so-called "waivers" which are supposedly allowed (the expert you acknowledge above says that there is no such waiver authority).People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
