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I asked a simple question - is there any evidence, other than Quade's medically inaccurate belief that all killers are insane, that this shooter was mentally deficient, rather than a 40 yo loser who blames minorities for his failure in life?
Feeble response.
so to review, you have no actual evidence, but you're going to categorize him that way anyhow as it serves your agenda.
Another significant, and sobering reality from this attack is that he used a single handgun....no "assault weapons," no 100rd magazine. I told you that any competent shooter is quite capable with magazine reloads against the defenseless....and this showed it all too well.
quade 4
QuoteWhen I was in NI I remember a English colleague saying to a catholic college from Belfast that he wanted to understand the 'Troubles'. The Belfast man said 'its not possible to understand because its hatred, to understand there needs to be some thought process involved, its hatred plain and simple.'
I think that applies to this murderer also, if you don't hate asians and others who are not white then its not possible to understand, its hatred plain and simple.
So, you really think it's better to not try to understand why the group of people who are being terrorists and what makes them do what they do? To me, just calling it hate and letting them continue to be pissed off and kill people seems like a horribly bad idea. I think it would be much more helpful to at least find out the root cause of the hate and attempt to address that.
Otherwise, aren't you just sticking your head in the sand and allowing the killing to happen more or less because "shit happens"?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
Skyrad 0
Not at all, of course one should try and understand the motivations of terrorists in the fight against them. But to truly understand hatred isn't possible unless you also feel it. Its possible to understand that Neo Nazi's hate non whites, its possible to understand that jealousy, scapegoating and fear might be the underlying cause of their hatred. But to truly understand their hatred is not possible unless you also share it.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
billvon 3,130
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>So, you really think it's better to not try to understand why the group of
>people who are being terrorists and what makes them do what they do?
You just got finished telling me that people do such things because they are insane. You generally can't understand why insane people do what they do - they heard a voice, or they see people as monsters, or their brain just plain doesn't work and they can't make value judgments. That's why they are insane.
So yes, if you believe your own premise, it is pointless to understand why insane people kill.
>people who are being terrorists and what makes them do what they do?
You just got finished telling me that people do such things because they are insane. You generally can't understand why insane people do what they do - they heard a voice, or they see people as monsters, or their brain just plain doesn't work and they can't make value judgments. That's why they are insane.
So yes, if you believe your own premise, it is pointless to understand why insane people kill.
RonD1120 62
Quote
So, you really think it's better to not try to understand why the group of people who are being terrorists and what makes them do what they do? To me, just calling it hate and letting them continue to be pissed off and kill people seems like a horribly bad idea. I think it would be much more helpful to at least find out the root cause of the hate and attempt to address that.
Otherwise, aren't you just sticking your head in the sand and allowing the killing to happen more or less because "shit happens"?
Root cause: Fallen man; Sin
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
quade 4
QuoteQuoteSo, you really think it's better to not try to understand why the group of people who are being terrorists and what makes them do what they do? To me, just calling it hate and letting them continue to be pissed off and kill people seems like a horribly bad idea. I think it would be much more helpful to at least find out the root cause of the hate and attempt to address that.
Otherwise, aren't you just sticking your head in the sand and allowing the killing to happen more or less because "shit happens"?
Root cause: Fallen man; Sin
Ridiculous.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
Marinus 0
QuoteBut to truly understand their hatred is not possible unless you also share it.
I don't think it's very hard to understand. Hatred is a feeling most experience, and irrational hatred for groups also seems to be very common. I heavily suspect that loads of people have irrational feelings of hatred/dislike for groups, but recognize these feelings as "wrong" and thus don't act on it, or even deny the existence of those feelings altogether. I don't think there's a whole lot of difference between the different brands of hate. Actually hurting someone you hate is simply the next thing to do after you rationalize the hate and start to dehumanize your target.
rehmwa 2
QuoteBut to truly understand their hatred is not possible unless you also share it.
I think this attitude is a real symptom of why there is so much conflict on social issues. IMO - it's a clear symptom of at least an inability to separate intellectual understanding vs emotional understanding. I think it's a big component in very intolerant individuals. At the least, it's something you see in people that like to open an issue with "how would YOU feel if you were in their shoes?"
Understanding does NOT equal: acceptance, agreement, advocacy, allowance, etc etc etc
I do believe there can be understanding without requiring a visceral and emotional validation component to it. In other words - I'd feel the same way as that guy were I in his shoes. But i wouldn't have taken the same actions. (i.e., I understand and am still capable of disagreeing)
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Marinus 0
I must have been doing something wrong, because I was replying to that quote. My reaction to it is now posted. I believe we pretty much agree here, btw.
RonD1120 62
QuoteQuoteQuoteSo, you really think it's better to not try to understand why the group of people who are being terrorists and what makes them do what they do? To me, just calling it hate and letting them continue to be pissed off and kill people seems like a horribly bad idea. I think it would be much more helpful to at least find out the root cause of the hate and attempt to address that.
Otherwise, aren't you just sticking your head in the sand and allowing the killing to happen more or less because "shit happens"?
Root cause: Fallen man; Sin
Ridiculous.
Galatians 5:
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
It is a starting place or root cause in my understanding.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
kallend 2,174
QuoteQuoteQuote
I asked a simple question - is there any evidence, other than Quade's medically inaccurate belief that all killers are insane, that this shooter was mentally deficient, rather than a 40 yo loser who blames minorities for his failure in life?
Feeble response.
so to review, you have no actual evidence, but you're going to categorize him that way anyhow as it serves your agenda.
.
And once AGAIN you snip the question that I answered and that gives context to my answer.
You are intellectually dishonest. That is all.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
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You are intellectually dishonest. That is all.
so says the black pot.
rhaig 0
Quote
You are intellectually dishonest. That is all.
and yet somehow when you phrase "you're a liar" this way, it's not considered a personal attack.
--
Rob
Rob
kallend 2,174
QuoteQuote
You are intellectually dishonest. That is all.
so says the black pot.
I'm not snipping out parts of your replies that give context.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
billvon 3,130
And your one warning.
DaVinci 0
QuoteYes, because many people are accidentally voted to death
Well, I think that Bush did order troops into Iraq.
Quoteand drunk voting is a threat to safety everywhere
You can't see that as a good idea?
But the main thing you missed (or ignored) was I was asking a question about if you would limit other rights with the same restrictions.
QuoteWhen handling guns and driving cars, competence is at least as big an issue as honesty.
Yet, there are no tests or registration to own a car.
DaVinci 0
QuoteI think. I especially don't really understand the resistance of many to the education part.
Because some people clearly use what sound like reasonable requirements to flat out prevent ownership.
Look at Chicago, their 28 year handgun ban was ruled unconstitutional. So Dailey made the requirements as difficult as he could (and in the process had to get another smackdown from the courts).
" a five-hour class, written test, fingerprinting, three background checks, two visits to a Chicago Police Department records office on the Southwest Side, three trips to suburban gun shops, a dizzying stack of paperwork—not to mention weeks of waiting for the city to process and mail documents. All told, it took $265 (not including the $524 for the gun itself) and three months to go from gun virgin to gun owner."
All of that just makes ownership difficult... Want to guess how many criminals will do any of that?
"Only three days after the high court’s decision, Mayor Richard Daley pushed a set of new restrictions, which the City Council rush-approved the next day. The so-called Responsible Gun Ownership Ordinance that went into effect on July 12 says that aside from the already mandatory Firearm Owners Identification Card ($10), wanna-be gun owners need to get a Chicago Firearms Permit ($100, renewed every three years) and register firearms with the police department ($15 per gun every three years)."
So you have to pay 265 dollars to buy a gun, and 125 dollars every three years to keep it in Chicago.
"The ordinance also mandates gun training, bans all gun sales in the city and describes how a gun must be “broken down” during transportation on, say, CTA buses and trains. At home, however, a gun owner is legally allowed to keep one firearm assembled and operable."
So they let you buy a gun, just not in the city.
They also required training, but you could not get training in the city either.
All of the ideas seemed like a good idea.... But NONE of them will stop a criminal because a criminal will not do any of the steps.
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteAll of the ideas seemed like a good idea.... But NONE of them will stop a criminal because a criminal will not do any of the steps.
Unless he buys the guns before he becomes a criminal. Then he will go through all those steps.
Marinus 0
QuoteBut the main thing you missed (or ignored) was I was asking a question about if you would limit other rights with the same restrictions.
I think the comparisons were flawed.
QuoteYet, there are no tests or registration to own a car.
apparently not in your country, no, and I don't have to look at the statistics to see how that's working out for you guys. In the end it's your problem, however I think it's a good idea for us to test 'Mericans before they're allowed on European roads.
DaVinci 0
QuoteUnless he buys the guns before he becomes a criminal. Then he will go through all those steps.
Then those steps did not stop a criminal now did it? If he became a criminal after, then he became a criminal after.... And those steps didn't stop him and would not stop him.
DaVinci 0
QuoteI think the comparisons were flawed.
Fair enough, but the fact is that when you are willing to limit a right in one way that you would consider inappropriate for another right, that speaks more to your personal view of the validity of the right than the right itself.
Quoteapparently not in your country, no, and I don't have to look at the statistics to see how that's working out for you guys
Yes, a gun at home or a car in the garage are both no danger to anyone.
QuoteIn the end it's your problem, however I think it's a good idea for us to test 'Mericans before they're allowed on European roads.
And we are free to test 'uropeans' when they want to visit the US.
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteThen those steps did not stop a criminal now did it?
Well that depends. He may find himself gravitating to an area in which he didn't have to take those steps. Say Aurora, CO or College Station, Tx.
Or during all those added steps they may find some troubling mental health issues.
Like I responded to you in a different thread. Things just aren't that black and white.
Quote
QuoteYet, there are no tests or registration to own a car.
apparently not in your country, no, and I don't have to look at the statistics to see how that's working out for you guys. In the end it's your problem, however I think it's a good idea for us to test 'Mericans before they're allowed on European roads.
It used to be simple - with no automatics available, you automatically filtered out most Americans from the onset. But I understand that to be a mixed bag these days...BMW has a model that you can only get with a manual transmission in the US...not available elsewhere. (Though overall, US sales are still over 90% automatics)
??
Oh my rushmc, sometimes, you're even good for a laugh
dudeist skydiver # 3105
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