lawrocket 3 #51 August 8, 2012 Quote Quote Right, it's all because of those damned Bush tax cuts. I don't even think you believe that. But then again, maybe you do. If you believe higher taxes on the wealthy will ruin the economy, how do you explain the late 1990s? The same way I explain the mid 2000's. Why do people forget that that great ride in the 90's ended just like the great ride of the mid-2000's. You remember that dot bomb thing? Where the wealthy took their money and put it into capital gains? I do. Causes a bubble. POP! My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yourmomma 0 #52 August 8, 2012 Man that's a lie that just won't die. There was no tech bubble and it didnt pop. Tech companies are still alive and kicking. Companies come on line and continue to grow. Tech is the number one driver in our economy. The economy tanked because we fought two wars and defunded the government. Even now we have an income problem as much as a spending problem. Like the out of context "you didnt build it "line. The taxing job creators lie has got a firm footing in the delighting in ignorance crew of the republican party. There is no question the democrats are just as broken. That doesnt absolve the republicans of their idiocy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,099 #53 August 8, 2012 >You remember that dot bomb thing? Where the wealthy took their money and put it >into capital gains? I do. Causes a bubble. POP! I liked that bubble. Our stock went from 3 bucks a share to 200. Then dropped back all the way to 25 or so. I can live with that sort of "pop." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,142 #54 August 8, 2012 QuoteAh, yes. I remember it well. The Republican Congress dragging Bill Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. So since taxes were very high during bad economic times, it's clear lower taxes don't cause economies to tank. Surely you don't believe giving politicians more money to piss away creates better economics? You don't believe that do you? Are you calling the Eisenhower administration "bad economic times"? Suggest you quit while only a mile behind.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #55 August 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteAh, yes. I remember it well. The Republican Congress dragging Bill Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. So since taxes were very high during bad economic times, it's clear lower taxes don't cause economies to tank. Surely you don't believe giving politicians more money to piss away creates better economics? You don't believe that do you? Are you calling the Eisenhower administration "bad economic times"? Suggest you quit while only a mile behind. You brought it up. Back at you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,142 #56 August 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteAh, yes. I remember it well. The Republican Congress dragging Bill Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. So since taxes were very high during bad economic times, it's clear lower taxes don't cause economies to tank. Surely you don't believe giving politicians more money to piss away creates better economics? You don't believe that do you? Are you calling the Eisenhower administration "bad economic times"? Suggest you quit while only a mile behind. You brought it up. Back at you. FACT is, we've had much better economic times during times of high taxes (under GOP administrations even, before the GOP was taken over by extremists) than now when taxes are low. So the GOP argument that the economy will suffer if taxes are raised on the Cayman Islands/Bermuda/Switzerland job exporting brigade is just a load of baloney.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #57 August 8, 2012 QuoteFACT is, we've had much better "Fact" and "much better" are irreconcilable terms. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #58 August 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAh, yes. I remember it well. The Republican Congress dragging Bill Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. So since taxes were very high during bad economic times, it's clear lower taxes don't cause economies to tank. Surely you don't believe giving politicians more money to piss away creates better economics? You don't believe that do you? Are you calling the Eisenhower administration "bad economic times"? Suggest you quit while only a mile behind. You brought it up. Back at you. FACT is, we've had much better economic times during times of high taxes (under GOP administrations even, before the GOP was taken over by extremists) than now when taxes are low. So the GOP argument that the economy will suffer if taxes are raised on the Cayman Islands/Bermuda/Switzerland job exporting brigade is just a load of baloney. "Fact is" we have also had bad economic times during periods of high taxation also. Gee Professor, perhaps there are other factors? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #59 August 8, 2012 QuoteAh, yes. I remember it well. The Republican Congress dragging Bill Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. If you're going to give them this credit, then what the fuck happened for the first 6 years of the Bush Administration? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #60 August 8, 2012 QuoteMan that's a lie that just won't die. There was no tech bubble and it didnt pop. Tech companies are still alive and kicking. Companies come on line and continue to grow. Tech is the number one driver in our economy. The economy tanked because we fought two wars and defunded the government. Even now we have an income problem as much as a spending problem. Like the out of context "you didnt build it "line. The taxing job creators lie has got a firm footing in the delighting in ignorance crew of the republican party. There is no question the democrats are just as broken. That doesnt absolve the republicans of their idiocy. Where do you live exactly, to make a claims like "there was no tech bubble" and "it didn't pop." Because it sure as hell existed and then did not in the place where it happened, the Bay Area. Lots of waiters became tech monkeys for a couple years, and then a lot of good people went without work for a year plus. At risk of tastelessness, this is as big a denial as a Holocaust denial. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #61 August 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteAh, yes. I remember it well. The Republican Congress dragging Bill Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. If you're going to give them this credit, then what the fuck happened for the first 6 years of the Bush Administration? 911 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #62 August 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteAh, yes. I remember it well. The Republican Congress dragging Bill Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. If you're going to give them this credit, then what the fuck happened for the first 6 years of the Bush Administration? 911 reminding me of Lois Griffin's campaign for mayor against Adam West. 'The answer to all problems or mere questions is 9/11.' Sorry, mate, the tax cut began before 9/11 and the Iraqi war was unrelated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #63 August 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAh, yes. I remember it well. The Republican Congress dragging Bill Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. If you're going to give them this credit, then what the fuck happened for the first 6 years of the Bush Administration? 911 reminding me of Lois Griffin's campaign for mayor against Adam West. 'The answer to all problems or mere questions is 9/11.' Sorry, mate, the tax cut began before 9/11 and the Iraqi war was unrelated. I don't disagree, however there was a small recession that began the last year Clinton was in office prior to that, the tax cuts were working. I believe that 911 had a rippling effect on the economy and also on peoples psyche. But that's not really the point I was making. My point is you cannot accurately simplify the reasons an economy is doing well or not so well based solely on tax rates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #64 August 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAh, yes. I remember it well. The Republican Congress dragging Bill Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. If you're going to give them this credit, then what the fuck happened for the first 6 years of the Bush Administration? 911 reminding me of Lois Griffin's campaign for mayor against Adam West. 'The answer to all problems or mere questions is 9/11.' Sorry, mate, the tax cut began before 9/11 and the Iraqi war was unrelated. I don't disagree, however there was a small recession that began the last year Clinton was in office prior to that, the tax cuts were working. I believe that 911 had a rippling effect on the economy and also on peoples psyche. But that's not really the point I was making. My point is you cannot accurately simplify the reasons an economy is doing well or not so well based solely on tax rates. I was talking a new topic - the balanced budget and you giving all the credit to the Republican Congress. It managed to balance the budget with Clinton, but not in 6 years with Bush, or even close to it. I could see a reason for a couple years of trouble due to the dotbomb and 9/11, but not the duration. I can't see a reason to give the Congress the credit here, not Clinton. Bush and Congress should have been able to work together well...but the results show something else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #65 August 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAh, yes. I remember it well. The Republican Congress dragging Bill Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. If you're going to give them this credit, then what the fuck happened for the first 6 years of the Bush Administration? 911 reminding me of Lois Griffin's campaign for mayor against Adam West. 'The answer to all problems or mere questions is 9/11.' Sorry, mate, the tax cut began before 9/11 and the Iraqi war was unrelated. I don't disagree, however there was a small recession that began the last year Clinton was in office prior to that, the tax cuts were working. I believe that 911 had a rippling effect on the economy and also on peoples psyche. But that's not really the point I was making. My point is you cannot accurately simplify the reasons an economy is doing well or not so well based solely on tax rates. I was talking a new topic - the balanced budget and you giving all the credit to the Republican Congress. It managed to balance the budget with Clinton, but not in 6 years with Bush, or even close to it. I could see a reason for a couple years of trouble due to the dotbomb and 9/11, but not the duration. I can't see a reason to give the Congress the credit here, not Clinton. Bush and Congress should have been able to work together well...but the results show something else. I don't disagree. I do not think the solution to our current economic problems is to give politicians more money to spend. They will wind up pissing it away instead of using it to start paying down the deb. Giving a politician money is like giving a crackhead a pound of crack and telling him not to smoke any. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,099 #66 August 8, 2012 >My point is you cannot accurately simplify the reasons an economy is doing well or >not so well based solely on tax rates. Agree 100%. And that goes for a lot more than just tax rates. You can't simplify such reasons to the failure of a single market segment, or a single president's policies, or a single Congress, or a single piece of legislation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #67 August 8, 2012 Quote >My point is you cannot accurately simplify the reasons an economy is doing well or >not so well based solely on tax rates. Agree 100%. And that goes for a lot more than just tax rates. You can't simplify such reasons to the failure of a single market segment, or a single president's policies, or a single Congress, or a single piece of legislation. I agree. Unless it's an election year, of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,142 #68 August 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAh, yes. I remember it well. The Republican Congress dragging Bill Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. If you're going to give them this credit, then what the fuck happened for the first 6 years of the Bush Administration? 911 reminding me of Lois Griffin's campaign for mayor against Adam West. 'The answer to all problems or mere questions is 9/11.' Sorry, mate, the tax cut began before 9/11 and the Iraqi war was unrelated. I don't disagree, however there was a small recession that began the last year Clinton was in office prior to that, the tax cuts were working. I believe that 911 had a rippling effect on the economy and also on peoples psyche. But that's not really the point I was making. My point is you cannot accurately simplify the reasons an economy is doing well or not so well based solely on tax rates. EXACTLY, so all the GOP's claims of economic disaster if the tax rates on the wealthy are increased have no basis in reality. Job creators - bah humbug! All they do is squirrel the money away in the Caymans anyway.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #69 August 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAh, yes. I remember it well. The Republican Congress dragging Bill Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. If you're going to give them this credit, then what the fuck happened for the first 6 years of the Bush Administration? 911 reminding me of Lois Griffin's campaign for mayor against Adam West. 'The answer to all problems or mere questions is 9/11.' Sorry, mate, the tax cut began before 9/11 and the Iraqi war was unrelated. I don't disagree, however there was a small recession that began the last year Clinton was in office prior to that, the tax cuts were working. I believe that 911 had a rippling effect on the economy and also on peoples psyche. But that's not really the point I was making. My point is you cannot accurately simplify the reasons an economy is doing well or not so well based solely on tax rates. EXACTLY, so all the GOP's claims of economic disaster if the tax rates on the wealthy are increased have no basis in reality. Job creators - bah humbug! All they do is squirrel the money away in the Caymans anyway. Yeah, instead they should be pissing tax payers money away on electric cars from Norway, Wind Mills from China and secretly feeding money to their friends by investing in Solar Panel companies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,142 #70 August 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAh, yes. I remember it well. The Republican Congress dragging Bill Clinton kicking and screaming to a balanced budget. If you're going to give them this credit, then what the fuck happened for the first 6 years of the Bush Administration? 911 reminding me of Lois Griffin's campaign for mayor against Adam West. 'The answer to all problems or mere questions is 9/11.' Sorry, mate, the tax cut began before 9/11 and the Iraqi war was unrelated. I don't disagree, however there was a small recession that began the last year Clinton was in office prior to that, the tax cuts were working. I believe that 911 had a rippling effect on the economy and also on peoples psyche. But that's not really the point I was making. My point is you cannot accurately simplify the reasons an economy is doing well or not so well based solely on tax rates. EXACTLY, so all the GOP's claims of economic disaster if the tax rates on the wealthy are increased have no basis in reality. Job creators - bah humbug! All they do is squirrel the money away in the Caymans anyway. Yeah, instead they should be pissing tax payers money away on electric cars from Norway, Wind Mills from China and secretly feeding money to their friends by investing in Solar Panel companies. Peanuts compared to the money wasted on the F22 and F35 programs, MRAP, and Littoral ships. Not to mention the $Trillion or so wasted in Iraq on a war based on false pretenses.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #71 August 8, 2012 Is that all you got? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,099 #72 August 8, 2012 >Yeah, instead they should be pissing tax payers money away on electric cars from >Norway, Wind Mills from China and secretly feeding money to their friends by investing >in Solar Panel companies. The money we pissed away on even dumber things (like, say, a network so colleges could send email to each other, or funding a bunch of scientists to make things out of blocks in squash courts) turned out to be . . . not so dumb. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,142 #73 August 8, 2012 Quote Is that all you got? No, but it sufficed. About a $Trillion more waste than you listed.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #74 August 9, 2012 QuoteQuote Is that all you got? No, but it sufficed. About a $Trillion more waste than you listed. That was just a sampler. Heck, I didn't, include GM or some of the other financial sinkholes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #75 August 9, 2012 Quote>Yeah, instead they should be pissing tax payers money away on electric cars from >Norway, Wind Mills from China and secretly feeding money to their friends by investing >in Solar Panel companies. The money we pissed away on even dumber things (like, say, a network so colleges could send email to each other, or funding a bunch of scientists to make things out of blocks in squash courts) turned out to be . . . not so dumb. Surely you understand the difference between successful ventures and utter failures. In at least one case, the money was funnel to cronies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
