rehmwa 2 #51 August 1, 2012 that's always the same discussion, and that's why we don't go any further. if we can't find a way to cut the big 3, then we can't put a dent in it ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #52 August 1, 2012 Quotethat's always the same discussion, and that's why we don't go any further. if we can't find a way to cut the big 3, then we can't put a dent in it It's reality. SS is not contributing to the deficit. It has been masking the deficit since early in the Reagan administration. It was only because of accounting malfeasance that it's grouped with the budget as it is. ObamaCare and health care reform in general purports to reduce medicare costs. Might happen, but it's not guaranteed the same way that ceasing the buildout of a new aircraft carrier group is. MC is paid as we go as well with a 3.3% tax on all income. In the bigger picture, unpopular moves like banning soda and making fatties run, banning smoking and red meat - that may be how you get costs down here. If 12.4 (or 10.4)% and 3.3% doesn't get it done for SS and MC, you either change the benefits or increase the rates, but it's separate to the general spending. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #53 August 1, 2012 QuoteHave we actually had a true surplus since '41? Yes. Under Clinton, there were two years of surplus on- and off-budget. There were additional years of on-budget surplus.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #54 August 1, 2012 QuoteQuoteHave we actually had a true surplus since '41? Yes. Under Clinton, there were two years of surplus on- and off-budget. There were additional years of on-budget surplus. Lawrocket has noted on several occasions that debt still increased in those years, likely pointing to the SS operating surplus being the difference. But that surplus is still a running debt that will have to be paid back. Given where we stand now, otoh, I'm happy as hell if we're in a situation where we're quibbling over tens of billions instead of hundreds or thousands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #55 August 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteHave we actually had a true surplus since '41? Yes. Under Clinton, there were two years of surplus on- and off-budget. There were additional years of on-budget surplus. Lawrocket has noted on several occasions that debt still increased in those years, likely pointing to the SS operating surplus being the difference. But that surplus is still a running debt that will have to be paid back. Given where we stand now, otoh, I'm happy as hell if we're in a situation where we're quibbling over tens of billions instead of hundreds or thousands. I've responded to Lawrocket's misleading claims several times, pointing out that, in those years, the federal government's cash accounts increased by greater amounts than the debt increased.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #56 August 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteHave we actually had a true surplus since '41? Yes. Under Clinton, there were two years of surplus on- and off-budget. There were additional years of on-budget surplus. I don't think the word "Surplus" means what Politicians think it means. Since '41, We've never had a Zero Balance, always had debt, even the Gov web pages show that. Maybe we can stop with this misnomer and admit we need drastic change! MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 906 #57 August 2, 2012 You're not paying attention. It's unpossible to fix. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #58 August 2, 2012 Quote You're not paying attention. It's unpossible to fix. I just want them to use the right phrase, and or words, for FUBAR! MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 906 #59 August 2, 2012 Then it should be SNAFUBAR! Tango Uniform. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #60 August 2, 2012 Quote Then it should be SNAFUBAR! Tango Uniform. Ah, yes, I apologize for using the wrong one! BOHICA! MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #61 August 2, 2012 >I don't think the word "Surplus" means what Politicians think it means. It means more coming in than is going out; more supply than demand. Nowadays it's a rare year that we see a surplus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #62 August 2, 2012 Quote>I don't think the word "Surplus" means what Politicians think it means. It means more coming in than is going out; more supply than demand. Nowadays it's a rare year that we see a surplus. Like 80 ish years worth of now a days. I get what they want it to mean in this context, but it is still not "right". MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #63 August 2, 2012 >Like 80 ish years worth of now a days. In 2000 we had a surplus, but unfortunately politicians took that as an opportunity to cut taxes and increase spending again, rather than pay down the debt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #64 August 2, 2012 Quote>Like 80 ish years worth of now a days. In 2000 we had a surplus, but unfortunately politicians took that as an opportunity to cut taxes and increase spending again, rather than pay down the debt. That is the problem I have with using the word "Surplus". We still had debt, so money out IMO, if we had it paid off to Zero, and then after all was paid for we had a Surplus, I would not object to the use of the word there. The use of the word in this context, I feel, is a pure "Spin" action, and confuses folks about the true numbers. Again it is just my opinion, and I will be told to take a math class and learn English again, but that how it looks to me. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #65 August 2, 2012 QuoteThe nation has a cashflow problem. Cash flows both ways, in and out. Let's try to fix the cashflow problem. History has shown us that if we just increase taxes that they will just increase spending. If we do not control spending, this economy is lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #66 August 2, 2012 >That is the problem I have with using the word "Surplus". We still had debt, so >money out IMO, if we had it paid off to Zero, and then after all was paid for we >had a Surplus OK, I can see how you could feel that way. Just be aware that that's not the definition of the word. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #67 August 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe nation has a cashflow problem. Cash flows both ways, in and out. Let's try to fix the cashflow problem. History has shown us that if we just increase taxes that they will just increase spending. If we do not control spending, this economy is lost. History also shows that when we decrease taxes that they will just continue to increase spending."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #68 August 2, 2012 Quote>That is the problem I have with using the word "Surplus". We still had debt, so >money out IMO, if we had it paid off to Zero, and then after all was paid for we >had a Surplus OK, I can see how you could feel that way. Just be aware that that's not the definition of the word. I understand, I was going with my understanding of this definition of the word. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/surplus MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #69 August 2, 2012 QuoteQuote>That is the problem I have with using the word "Surplus". We still had debt, so >money out IMO, if we had it paid off to Zero, and then after all was paid for we >had a Surplus OK, I can see how you could feel that way. Just be aware that that's not the definition of the word. I understand, I was going with my understanding of this definition of the word. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/surplus Matt the dictionary is often the wrong place to cite - literate definitions often don't match reality. And budget surplus per definitions 1 & 2 is correct as a year only perspective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #70 August 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote>That is the problem I have with using the word "Surplus". We still had debt, so >money out IMO, if we had it paid off to Zero, and then after all was paid for we >had a Surplus OK, I can see how you could feel that way. Just be aware that that's not the definition of the word. I understand, I was going with my understanding of this definition of the word. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/surplus Matt the dictionary is often the wrong place to cite - literate definitions often don't match reality. And budget surplus per definitions 1 & 2 is correct as a year only perspective. Who knew, the definition of a word, would not be the definition of a word. How about #4 is that close? We are talking about "accounting" to a degree after all. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #71 August 2, 2012 Quote How about #4 is that close? We are talking about "accounting" to a degree after all. and yet less than 5% of people would use the word as you prefer to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #72 August 2, 2012 QuoteQuote How about #4 is that close? We are talking about "accounting" to a degree after all. and yet less than 5% of people would use the word as you prefer to. Properly? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 906 #73 August 2, 2012 I'm about over the whole mindset in use these days - mostly politicians, but in general there seems to be way to much of the 'that's not what I meant when I sand X' comments. X has and always will mean X - stop trying to twist meaning to make them sound tastier to the target audience at the time. It's embarrassing for the speaker and insulting to the listener. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #74 August 2, 2012 QuoteI'm about over the whole mindset in use these days - mostly politicians, but in general there seems to be way to much of the 'that's not what I meant when I sand X' comments. X has and always will mean X - stop trying to twist meaning to make them sound tastier to the target audience at the time. It's embarrassing for the speaker and insulting to the listener. Bravo Sir! MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #75 August 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote How about #4 is that close? We are talking about "accounting" to a degree after all. and yet less than 5% of people would use the word as you prefer to. Properly? Matt the people decide what proper is. A pendant hides behind "proper." It's more important that people use the same definition, regardless of what it is. Inconsistency leads to communication failure. And besides, typically the first definitions (1 and 2) outrank the later ones (4th). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
