Mitt Romney summarizes Health Care Debate in Israel.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

>Obesity is a symptom of a poor healthcare system.

I think it's indicative of poor lifestyle choices. You, not your doctor, are the determining factor in what weight you are.

Yep.

Of course there's lots of evidence to suggest that people lead more active lives when the opportunity is available (without a significant increase in perceived danger). For example, cities with complete streets and/or good bicycle infrastructure tend to see increased walking and/or biking. Such infrastructure may not be part of medical care, but it is part of health care.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Of course there's lots of evidence to suggest that people lead more active lives when the opportunity is available (without a significant increase in perceived danger). For example, cities with complete streets and/or good bicycle infrastructure tend to see increased walking and/or biking. Such infrastructure may not be part of medical care, but it is part of health care.

if civil engineering/planning is part of health care, then what isn't?

[billvon 3,090]

>Of course there's lots of evidence to suggest that people lead more active
>lives when the opportunity is available

Agreed. I'm all for communities designed for walking/biking access, provisions that require open space to go along with development and zoning laws that allow commercial and retail spaces closer to residential (so not everyone has to drive everywhere.)

>Such infrastructure may not be part of medical care, but it is part of health care.

It is neither. It's city planning.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

It's city planning.

Yes. It's also an aspect of health care. It need not be one xor the other.

Considering investment in active transportation infrastructure as an aspect of health care really isn't much different from a health insurance policy covering a gym membership as preventative care.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[billvon 3,090]

>Yes. It's also an aspect of health care. It need not be one xor the other.

Well, in that case I guess the space program is an aspect of health care too - they have exercise machines on the space station. And federal support of the Internet is really health care too. They sell exercise machines on the Net.

Come to think of it, everything is health care! I don't know why we need so many line items on the budget. Just label everything "health care."

Now back to the gun debate, which is really a debate about health care.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Well, in that case I guess the space program is an aspect of health care too - they have exercise machines on the space station.

Why do you suppose they have exercise machines on the space station? Could it possibly be to help maintain the astronauts/cosmonauts' health? That almost sounds plausible.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Come to think of it, everything is health care! I don't know why we need so many line items on the budget. Just label everything "health care."

effectively he's made it a quality of life measurement. And no one will doubt that we have tradeoffs in that.

[billvon 3,090]

>Why do you suppose they have exercise machines on the space station? Could
>it possibly be to help maintain the astronauts/cosmonauts' health?

Exactly. NASA (sorry, the NHA) is really just an arm of US health care. It would make sense that they'd put it on the health station.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

>Why do you suppose they have exercise machines on the space station? Could
>it possibly be to help maintain the astronauts/cosmonauts' health?

Exactly. NASA (sorry, the NHA) is really just an arm of US health care. It would make sense that they'd put it on the health station.

Employers have a sake in keeping their employees healthy. Hence, NASA, et al. providing the means for astronauts/cosmonauts to practice preventative health care.

I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to create an artificial distinction. You're smarter than that.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[billvon 3,090]

>I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to create an artificial distinction.

I'm not. I am disagreeing that city planning is "part of healthcare" and thus poor city planning means a "poor healthcare system." It's a usual Speaker's Corner tactic (i.e. redefine stuff until I can win my argument) but it leads to even less communication than usually happens here. It goes like this:

"Gun control never works."
"Gun control does work! Gun control law X reduced crime in inner cities when it was passed."
"Fine. I don't consider that law gun control then."

(or choose your own favorite topic)

Now, if you want to say that poor city planning can _lead_ to more obesity, I agree. So can drinking too much soda. But it would be silly to say that Coca-Cola is part of our healthcare system.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

>I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to create an artificial distinction.

I'm not. I am disagreeing that city planning is "part of healthcare" and thus poor city planning means a "poor healthcare system."

There is nothing silly or unrealistic about recognizing that the same city planning decision can have important effects on both transportation and health care. It is an artificial distinction to consider the two mutually exclusive. In fact, such an artificial distinction encourages poor cost/benefit analyses.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[billvon 3,090]

>There is nothing silly or unrealistic about recognizing that the same city planning
>decision can have important effects on both transportation and health care.

Agreed. City planning has important effects on a great many things. But it is silly to say that a commercial zoning agreement is part of our transportation system.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

But it is silly to say that a commercial zoning agreement is part of our transportation system.

It isn't a silly to recognize that a city investing in active transportation infrastructure is making an investment in transportation and in preventative health care with the same project.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[ShcShc11 0]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2012/08/campaigns-health-care-comments-become-opponents-opportunities.html

[sammer 0]

Quote

Quote

No where in that report is it documented that fatbodies are adjusted for.

Obesity is a symptom of a poor healthcare system. All else equal, a country with more obesity than another has an inferior healthcare system.

That is ridiculous. Obesity has nothing at all to do with the health care system....and it shouldn't in any free country. The countries with little to no obesity typically have the worst health care systems, or none at all. Our health care system didn't buy the video games or KFC for my fat ass neighbor's kid.

We are fat because we don't have to work very hard. On average, we don't work that hard to make a living, buy our super-sized value meals, or even to entertain ourselves.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

That is ridiculous. Obesity has nothing at all to do with the health care system....

That depends on what you see the role of Health Care as. If you feel that Health Care should be actively involved with preventing health issues, then obesity is certainly a yard stick.

If you believe that Health Care should only be about treatment after a problem arises, than obviously obesity has nothing to do with Health Care.

[kallend 2,117]

Quote

Quote

Quote

No where in that report is it documented that fatbodies are adjusted for.

Obesity is a symptom of a poor healthcare system. All else equal, a country with more obesity than another has an inferior healthcare system.

That is ridiculous. Obesity has nothing at all to do with the health care system....and it shouldn't in any free country. The countries with little to no obesity typically have the worst health care systems, or none at all. Our health care system didn't buy the video games or KFC for my fat ass neighbor's kid.

We are fat because we don't have to work very hard. On average, we don't work that hard to make a living, buy our super-sized value meals, or even to entertain ourselves.

You confuse "health" care with "medical" care.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

Quote

No where in that report is it documented that fatbodies are adjusted for.

Obesity is a symptom of a poor healthcare system. All else equal, a country with more obesity than another has an inferior healthcare system.

That is ridiculous. Obesity has nothing at all to do with the health care system....and it shouldn't in any free country. The countries with little to no obesity typically have the worst health care systems, or none at all. Our health care system didn't buy the video games or KFC for my fat ass neighbor's kid.

We are fat because we don't have to work very hard. On average, we don't work that hard to make a living, buy our super-sized value meals, or even to entertain ourselves.

We don't work very hard physically, and we drive too much. We do work too hard in non physical ways, and take too little vacation.

But your point remains true. Skydekker and Kallend want to blame the "health care" system for American excess. But the way that other successful economies follows us shows the problem in that. (England and Australia are just barely trailing on obesity, and China is growing their problems with cardiovascalar disease as quickly as KFC can build restaurants.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

We don't work very hard physically, and we drive too much. We do work too hard in non physical ways, and take too little vacation.

But your point remains true. Skydekker and Kallend want to blame the "health care" system for American excess. But the way that other successful economies follows us shows the problem in that. (England and Australia are just barely trailing on obesity, and China is growing their problems with cardiovascalar disease as quickly as KFC can build restaurants.

In other words, the preventative health care in those countries is falling behind.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

We don't work very hard physically, and we drive too much. We do work too hard in non physical ways, and take too little vacation.

But your point remains true. Skydekker and Kallend want to blame the "health care" system for American excess. But the way that other successful economies follows us shows the problem in that. (England and Australia are just barely trailing on obesity, and China is growing their problems with cardiovascalar disease as quickly as KFC can build restaurants.

In other words, the preventative health care in those countries is falling behind.

You've already established in this very thread a fairly ridiculous notion of what health care means. Why modify it now with "preventative?"

The trends in these other nations that purported had such great health care shows that these are factors beyond the control of the government.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

You've already established in this very thread a fairly ridiculous notion of what health care means. Why modify it now with "preventative?

You haven't read this thread if you think I just started referring to preventative health care. And no, I haven't established any "ridiculous notions of what health care means." Health care is a superset of medical care.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

You've already established in this very thread a fairly ridiculous notion of what health care means. Why modify it now with "preventative?

You haven't read this thread if you think I just started referring to preventative health care. And no, I haven't established any "ridiculous notions of what health care means." Health care is a superset of medical care.

you already included bike lanes in health care. That really ended the serious part of the conversation.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

You've already established in this very thread a fairly ridiculous notion of what health care means. Why modify it now with "preventative?

You haven't read this thread if you think I just started referring to preventative health care. And no, I haven't established any "ridiculous notions of what health care means." Health care is a superset of medical care.

you already included bike lanes in health care. That really ended the serious part of the conversation.

That's not essentially different from insurance companies providing coverage of gym memberships as preventative health care. Both just make the means to exercise, i.e., preventative health care, more readily available. One just has additional benefits for transportation.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Skydekker and Kallend want to blame the "health care" system for American excess.

You are so full of shit that if your eyes weren't brown yet, they must be now.

Your reading comprehension skills are beyond pathetic.

[kallend 2,117]

Quote

Quote

Quote

We don't work very hard physically, and we drive too much. We do work too hard in non physical ways, and take too little vacation.

But your point remains true. Skydekker and Kallend want to blame the "health care" system for American excess. But the way that other successful economies follows us shows the problem in that. (England and Australia are just barely trailing on obesity, and China is growing their problems with cardiovascalar disease as quickly as KFC can build restaurants.

In other words, the preventative health care in those countries is falling behind.

You've already established in this very thread a fairly ridiculous notion of what health care means. Why modify it now with "preventative?"

The trends in these other nations that purported had such great health care shows that these are factors beyond the control of the government.

Apparently you think there is a complete disconnect between obesity and health.

Well, there isn't.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.