RonD1120 62
jgoose71 0
Quote
The only reasonable position is to protect yourself, your family, your community and your country. You must be armed, trained and prepared. For the safety of your loved ones and yourself, you must be ready and able to stand your ground.
There must be at least one person in every family willing to assume the responsibility of the sheepdog. Someone in each family must be adept with survival techniques.
I think you are close on this one, but this isn't the whole answer. Everyone just has to be aware and willing to pitch in.
Lets be honest, since 9/11, there have been several attempt to hijack aircraft, but none have worked. Why? Because we learned that it's acceptable to pitch in and help the flight crew until they can get to the ground. There is never an air marshal when you need one.
Yet in any other situation, it's not allowed. Police will arrest you and treat you as bad as the criminal if you step in any other time. Maybe it's the result of all that "Vigilante Justice" that's been plaguing our nation.
On navy ships, where there is no one else to help, everyone is a fire fighter in an emergency. Self reliance is the key.
I guess we've all just gotten in the habit of waiting for big brother to bail us out.
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything
Life, the Universe, and Everything
davjohns 1
Q. How do you stop massacres by mentally unstable people?
A. Publicly funded dropzones so they can easily participate in their regular activity.
A. Publicly funded dropzones so they can easily participate in their regular activity.
I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
GeorgiaDon 379
Would I be incorrect to assume that sailors are trained, and periodically practice how to respond to a fire on board? I very much doubt that the Navy's approach is to just tell the sailors "in the event of a fire, try to find a fire hose and get some water on the fire",and then cross their fingers and hope it all works out.QuoteOn navy ships, where there is no one else to help, everyone is a fire fighter in an emergency. Self reliance is the key.
Yet, at least here in the great state of Georgia, concealed carry permits must be issued to any citizen who requests one, as long as they pass a background check. There is absolutely NO requirement for any level of training, or demonstration of proficiency. No need to demonstrate that you can even hit a target, much less cluster your shots in the center of mass. For some reason, we assume that in the event of a crisis, such as the theater shooting (or any other attack where there are a lot of panicked people trying to get away), these untrained, unpracticed people will unerringly recognize and then take out the real attacker, without hitting innocent people or mistaking other Walter Mitty wannabees for the attacker and shooting them instead. This is the basis of our "first line of defense"??
I have no problem with honest citizens being armed. But for those who believe that a well-armed citizenry is the solution to these mass killings, wouldn't it make sense to at least require that such citizens demonstrate they have some idea of what they are doing?
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
davjohns 1
Quote
There must be at least one person in every family willing to assume the responsibility of the sheepdog. Someone in each family must be adept with survival techniques.
When I was a kid, I called that person 'Dad'. Now, I am that person. Dad's still on the watch as well.
I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
normiss 859
Sailors are ALL trained and have regular drills for fire. Fire at sea is one of the worst things that can happen. ![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
GA needs to adjust the permitting requirements IMO. At the very least FL requires training. Either a concealed weapons training class, or government weapons training (A DD-214 is proof for military).
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteHow about the simple question of "how do you stop massacres?"
Clearly you will never stop massacres. But most societies have taken steps to at least try and limit the severity of them. We have treaties on nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, landmines, biological weapons etc. all in place to try and limit the severity of a massacre.
With nuclear weapons we have even backed off from the concept of mutually assured destruction. You know, the I'll have my weapon for if you use your weapon routine....
Skyrad 0
QuoteQ. How do you stop massacres by mentally unstable people?
A. Publicly funded dropzones so they can easily participate in their regular activity.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
davjohns 1
I wondered if anyone was ever going to catch that.
I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
jcd11235 0
QuoteBut seriously, this sort of thing has been going on for quite some time.
Were you ever afraid of going to a McDonald's when you were a kid? Afraid that a crazed lunatic might spray the place with an automatic weapon? Happened right here in San Diego in 1984. A guy with an Uzi, a shotgun and a handgun (sound familiar?) killed 21 people and wounded 19.
Why weren't you worried about it? Probably because cable news and the Net weren't bombarding you with the news - and at that age you probably had other things to worry about anyway.
The other part is the statistical unlikeliness of such attacks. Rational people shouldn't rate mass murders and terrorism very high on their Stuff To Worry About lists. As tragic as the theater killings were, I would be surprised if, nationwide, traffic accidents involving people on their way to or from the Batman opening did not kill/injure more people than the killer did.
Likewise, frequenting McDonald's is more likely to cause premature death via poor diet than gunfire.
Personally, I can't fathom going through life so scared that my perceived need to be prepared for every possible eventuality trumps my desire to relax and enjoy myself most times when I'm out and about.
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!
SkyDekker 1,465
QuotePersonally, I can't fathom going through life so scared that my perceived need to be prepared for every possible eventuality trumps my desire to relax and enjoy myself most times when I'm out and about.
This is very true for me as well.
normiss 859
I seriously hope this is true of most of us.
Quote
Yet, at least here in the great state of Georgia, concealed carry permits must be issued to any citizen who requests one, as long as they pass a background check. There is absolutely NO requirement for any level of training, or demonstration of proficiency. No need to demonstrate that you can even hit a target, much less cluster your shots in the center of mass. For some reason, we assume that in the event of a crisis, such as the theater shooting (or any other attack where there are a lot of panicked people trying to get away), these untrained, unpracticed people will unerringly recognize and then take out the real attacker, without hitting innocent people or mistaking other Walter Mitty wannabees for the attacker and shooting them instead. This is the basis of our "first line of defense"??
The record for CCW speaks for itself, Don. This is a class of the population with lower criminal rates than your metro police department. They are not shooting wildly in vigilante efforts. They are in the whole taking their right to carry very seriously.
It's like the Voter Fraud cries - get back to me when these possible fears are reality, not just Brady nightmares.
Quote.
How do you stop massacres by mentally unstable people?
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Gun-carrying-man-ends-stabbing-spree-at-grocery/KfFgHz9Y5U2ISAIt_52E3g.cspx
steveOrino
quade 4
QuoteQuote.
How do you stop massacres by mentally unstable people?
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Gun-carrying-man-ends-stabbing-spree-at-grocery/KfFgHz9Y5U2ISAIt_52E3g.cspx
Hand Gun v. Knife an easy call.
Hand Gun v. AR-15 in a darkened theater filled with smoke and panicking people while the shooter is wearing body armor...
Come on, these are not equivalent events. Not even remotely close.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
normiss 859
No, but given a survivor's account, who was sitting right near the door at the back - likely to be the farthest away...she was still able to give a CLEAR description of the shooter, including a very clear description of his gas mask and how it was exactly like a character on the screen....
Sounds not near as chaotic and difficult to pull off a shot to me. I'm usually grouping within a 4" circle with my Sig .40.
I'd give it a shot vs. buckshot. I wouldn't even turn on the laser.
Quote
Hand Gun v. AR-15 in a darkened theater filled with smoke and panicking people while the shooter is wearing body armor...
no longer saying tear gas? I wonder when we'll find out what was in the smoke canisters.
And he only had the AR-15 for some part of the event before it jammed. Another detail that would be nice to know. But the big advantages of the AR15 are range and damage inflicted when shot on target. The range part isn't a factor.
quade 4
Rate of fire has to figure in there somewhere.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
normiss 859
survivor tells her story
If you dig around a few of her recent blog entries, there are some interesting comments she makes. IMO anyway.
I would say she fully believes in situational awareness and being ready.
If you dig around a few of her recent blog entries, there are some interesting comments she makes. IMO anyway.
I would say she fully believes in situational awareness and being ready.
QuoteRate of fire has to figure in there somewhere.
the rate of fire doesn't differ - they're both semi automatics. Outside of CA a concealed handgun may have 12-16 rounds. A tactical reload is < 2 seconds standing, but in this situation could be considerably longer. I think the traditional size magazine for an AR is 30. He had the cheapo 100rd drum that jammed somewhere, dropping his rate of fire to 0.
QuoteQuoteQuote.
How do you stop massacres by mentally unstable people?
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Gun-carrying-man-ends-stabbing-spree-at-grocery/KfFgHz9Y5U2ISAIt_52E3g.cspx
Hand Gun v. Knife an easy call.
Hand Gun v. AR-15 in a darkened theater filled with smoke and panicking people while the shooter is wearing body armor...
Come on, these are not equivalent events. Not even remotely close.
But that is not what was asked. Can you stop mass murders .... Tear gas, dark, chaos ... Doesn't matter. If you are trained. I'd promise you I could have taken him out
steveOrino
quade 4
Yet another super hero in our midst?
Please show me your cape and membership card into the Justice League.
Please show me your cape and membership card into the Justice League.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
Do seriously think Green Berets are not trained to fire effectively in dark chaos? Lol! No need to be a hater ;P
steveOrino
steveOrino
billvon 3,080
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>Do seriously think Green Berets are not trained to fire effectively in dark chaos?
Most military people I know are trained to do a great many things, but have the common sense to not do any of them in a crowded theater.
Most military people I know are trained to do a great many things, but have the common sense to not do any of them in a crowded theater.
I think that is a called a defeatist attitude. What happened to 'thy kingdom come on Earth as it is in heaven?' One must try to make the world better not just throw up our hands in the face of iniquity and go arm ourselves.
WWJD?
"Trust God but tether your camel."