Gay uniformed service personnel in Gay Pride March

[Skyrad 0]

Howdy folks, I saw the following article online. Essentially it seems the defence department gave permisson for Gay service personnel to march in uniform in the Sand Diego Gay pride march and dozens did.
Now I don't personally have a problem with gay service personnel and I don't believe their sexual status should be hidden in the services. However I do think that this is a step to far. Why do they have to wear their uniforms in a gay parade? The main problem I have with it is that its not expressing their sexuality but pushing a political agenda on gay rights. Service personnel should in my opinion be apolitical, you give up your rights to make political choices outside of elections and thats the way it should be in a professional Army/Navy/Air Force.
What are your thoughts?

(Edited to add: The first poll option should read they should not have been allowed to wear their uniforms in the Gay Parade)

http://news.yahoo.com/troops-march-san-diego-gay-parade-uniform-204528956.html

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
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[BIGUN 1,521]

Everything was done in compliance with AR 670-1 regarding social events and authorization by DoD. As to your comment regarding, "Service personnel should in my opinion be apolitical, you give up your rights to make political choices outside of elections and that's the way it should be in a professional Army/Navy/Air Force." One might observe a myriad of uniforms at political conventions (both sides of the aisle).

I voted "no." and my reason for that was the definition of a "Social event." If one were to wear the uniform to a symphony of other "lifestyle" social events, they could find themselves facing an Article 15. Having said that, I remember a time when one couldn't wear BDU's or a cap in the airport, but the beret seems to be allowed now.... There was also a time when a beer was allowed during lunch to the opposite side of being seen with a beer in uniform resulted in an Article 15 (MADD-induced politics).

Times are a changing.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[davjohns 1]

I'm surprised if they were given permission to wear the uniform at this event. Soldiers are trained regularly that the uniform is not be worn at any politically oriented event. Some posts specify that you have to go home after work and change. You can only stop en route for gas or at a convenience store before you violate the rule.

As for the beret, it is no longer the primary headgear. We returned to a patrol cap a couple of years ago. But it was never permissible to wear the beret inside unless under arms.

And the rule against drinking in uniform or on duty still stands with very few exceptions.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[jcd11235 0]

I don't see the problem if they had authorization from DoD.

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[lawrocket 3]

Quote

I don't see the problem if they had authorization from DoD.

I see a problem with selective authorization from DoD.

My problem with use of the uniform in any political sense is nothing new. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=710097#710097

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rehmwa 2]

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My problem with use of the uniform in any political sense is nothing new.

and should be the common sense answer here

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,173]

>My problem with use of the uniform in any political sense is nothing new.

Agreed. Wearing a uniform is not a problem when it's incidental to the person's actions. But it should not be used to support political positions.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Agreed. Wearing a uniform is not a problem when it's incidental to the person's actions. But it should not be used to support individual political positions.

That I could agree with.

[billvon 3,173]

>>But it should not be used to support individual political positions.

>That I could agree with.

What does that mean? That the soldier cannot use it to support his personal political position, but as long as he was with a group (say, the Democrats) it's OK?

[lawrocket 3]

I think that SkyDekker is pointing out that a military uniform is used frequently as a tool for a political position. The war in Iraq, for example, was the result of a political policy of the US.

Dekker is pointing out that for a person to wear the uniform to support his or her OWN political position is unwarranted. So I can understand the line he drew.

Of course I may be wrong and it's not what he meant.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,173]

> The war in Iraq, for example, was the result of a political policy of the US.

Ah, and by wearing the uniform while serving they are supporting that political position. Fair enough (if that's what he meant.)

[BIGUN 1,521]

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I see a problem with selective authorization from DoD.

You were more succinct than I. That was the message. Thank you.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Marinus 0]

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Why do they have to wear their uniforms in a gay parade?

Because uniforms are the second most tired cliché in the history of homos? Anyway, it shouldn't have been permitted.

[TriGirl 349]

It really depends on how the event is defined. According to the article, it would seem to be a community event, and therefore the uniforms shown in the photos are appropriate liberty attire (I didn't see any utility uniforms in the article photos, so I'm just going by what was reported).

I'm sure there were participants carrying signs promoting their individual political agendas/opinions in conjunction with this event. Those in uniform would have been prohibited from that type of demonstration activity, just as they would not be permitted to wear buttons/pins/armbands, etc., that are not authorized for the uniform.

Had the event been scheduled/billed as a rally to promote XX social agenda/political opinion, or to encourage political action, then I would say the wearing of a uniform by an active duty military member would be inappropriate.

However, I expect the event was also attended by opposition groups who did stage political demonstrations nearby. Those events would not be appropriate venues for the wearing of uniforms either (goes along with carrying signs/wearing buttons for those participating in the subject event).

Bottom line: just because people are against the premise of the festival, doesn't automatically qualify said festival (including "parade") as a political event.

[Skyrad 0]

Interesting post thanks. I don't have an issue with the parade as such and don't think that a Gay Parade is necessarily a political event. However I do feel that Gay service personnel wearing their uniforms at such a parade is a political statement, especially as they were marching behind a float with 'Freedom to serve' on it.
However, my thinking is no doubt influenced from my own cultural experience. As a British Solider we don't (or at least not in my day) have a 'liberty uniform' wearing uniform off base and off duty was a big no no, in fact it was banned as we were terrorist targets for Irish terrorists. So wearing a uniform to a off duty social event is an alien concept to me.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[lawrocket 3]

Wait. You're saying that if the people in the military uniform wanted to protest that would be bad, but showing support is not bad? Protesting is political but rallying in support of is apolitical?

I'm sorry, but that is EXACTLY a content-based restriction. I don't see how a person could use a uniform to march in support of the Second Amwndment but protesting would be political. Nor do I see how marching in support of gays is fine but rallying against gay marriage is political.

You're using subjective preference as objective truth. If the opposing viewpoint is political then the viewpoint is political.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[DanG 1]

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You're using subjective preference as objective truth. If the opposing viewpoint is political then the viewpoint is political.

Celebrating one's sexual identity is not an opposing viewpoint to keeping gay marriage illegal. One is political, one is not. The only reason marching in a gay pride parade is considered political is because gays are currently denied their political rights.

Do you feel marching in an Irish Pride Parade on St. Patrick's Day is political?

That being said, I'm not comfortable with people using their uniform outside of their duties, regardless of the type of event.

- Dan G

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

It really depends on how the event is defined. According to the article, it would seem to be a community event, and therefore the uniforms shown in the photos are appropriate liberty attire (I didn't see any utility uniforms in the article photos, so I'm just going by what was reported).

I'm sure there were participants carrying signs promoting their individual political agendas/opinions in conjunction with this event. Those in uniform would have been prohibited from that type of demonstration activity, just as they would not be permitted to wear buttons/pins/armbands, etc., that are not authorized for the uniform.

Had the event been scheduled/billed as a rally to promote XX social agenda/political opinion, or to encourage political action, then I would say the wearing of a uniform by an active duty military member would be inappropriate.

However, I expect the event was also attended by opposition groups who did stage political demonstrations nearby. Those events would not be appropriate venues for the wearing of uniforms either (goes along with carrying signs/wearing buttons for those participating in the subject event).

Bottom line: just because people are against the premise of the festival, doesn't automatically qualify said festival (including "parade") as a political event.

Oddly enough, recently the DOD spent 100's of thousands of dollars saying the opposite, no Uniforms in Political Rally's, Parades, Protests etc.

Personally, I say lift the veil all the way off and leave each to there own.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[jgoose71 0]

Well, there seems to be a consensus.

There is a line between chanting "We're here and we're queer" and rallying for Prop 8.

It's a thin line, but there is a line, say, about the width of a gay man's g-string?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

I think that SkyDekker is pointing out that a military uniform is used frequently as a tool for a political position. The war in Iraq, for example, was the result of a political policy of the US.

Dekker is pointing out that for a person to wear the uniform to support his or her OWN political position is unwarranted. So I can understand the line he drew.

Of course I may be wrong and it's not what he meant.

That was indeed what I meant. Thanks!

[shah269 0]

Is this a Navy joke?
You know those guys just look too fab in their bell bottom pants!

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[billvon 3,173]

>It really depends on how the event is defined. According to the article, it would seem
>to be a community event, and therefore the uniforms shown in the photos are
>appropriate liberty attire . . .

If the purpose of the event was a community function (i.e. a neighborhood barbeque during Gay Pride week) then I'd tend to agree. Right now a lot of the restaurants down here in San Diego have gay pride flags flying outside, and if they went to such a restaurant in uniform, no problem. And that would be the case even if people in the restaurant or barbeque had T-shirts or signs proclaiming their support for gay rights.

But if the _purpose_ of the event is political (i.e. marching in a Gay Pride parade to demonstrate support for gay rights) then that would seem to make wearing a uniform inappropriate.

[Coreece 190]

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But if the _purpose_ of the event is political (i.e. marching in a Gay Pride parade to demonstrate support for gay rights)

hmmm...I never viewed the gay parade as a political event. (maybe it is) I just always perceived it as people boasting in their iniquity - like having masturbation parades to eliminate the stigma...God forbid you ever get caught, look what happened to pee wee herman.

Some things are just better left private. If you put yourself out there in public, don't get pissed when the public doesn't like it.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[billvon 3,173]

>like having masturbation parades to eliminate the stigma..

I bet if you outlawed marriage for people who masturbated you'd start to see parades - and they'd be pretty political.

[oldwomanc6 65]

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>like having masturbation parades to eliminate the stigma..

I bet if you outlawed marriage for people who masturbated you'd start to see parades - and they'd be pretty political.

What about if you outlawed masturbation for married people?

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