Rstanley0312 1 #101 July 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteFalse! Yes you can stop a guy like this. Do you have any idea the energy and power of a .45? I think that if anyone was carrying in the theator, then: 1 - He or she would have to notice that they are in a dark area absolutely FULL of bystanders. 2 - Perhaps the carry holder would also realize that the theator walls are thin and the next room would also be full of innocents as well 3 - Lots of nuts at these showings are dressed up, like the shooter. Dark theator combined with nutbag might make it hard to find the shooter anyway. 4 - Combine a difficult target to find, along with my first couple of points that even to shoot at the guy in the theator creates a huge risk to the others. 5 - for that matter - yes, a .45 has a lot of power and even if you hit the shooter, you still might hit another person. Self defense should tactical, not spray and pray conclusion: I'm very pleased with any hypothetical carry holder that had the reasoning to withhold any shot except for the ideal shot - which likely didn't present itself. It's a tribute to the training and argument that responsible CCW holders deserve their permits. That is a logical post and I agree... but in those circumstances one cannot say that a trained gun owner would not have had the opportunity for a clear shot. That is all I am saying. To rule out that a CCW holder "could' have taken him down is a ridiculous statement but again I agree with what you wrote.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #102 July 20, 2012 QuoteI'm not armed with the intent of protecting anyone but myself. I would have likely drawn my gun and then headed to the nearest exit. If I found the shooter to be a threat to me, I would have removed that threat. I think not drawing if you don't intend to shoot is smarter. Two rows over, some guy just like you sees you armed, and thinks you're the shooter, and decides that HE will take down the shooter. Or, Heck, you come out the exit and the cop sees you, then what? For that matter, people might be low and crawling, do you want to be on your hands and knees working to the exit with one more thing in your hand? Work your way to the exit, and if you find the shooter on the way, then consider (draw and shoot) the shot vs continuing to get out (leave it holstered). YMMV - I suspect each state's concealed carry course, they would actually have a suggested course of action for this type of scenario ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #103 July 20, 2012 QuoteI'm not armed with the intent of protecting anyone but myself. I would have likely drawn my gun and then headed to the nearest exit. If I found the shooter to be a threat to me, I would have removed that threat. In a mass confusion like that, would that be the wise thing to do? I could easily see another person mistaking you for the perpetrator and shooting you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 883 #104 July 20, 2012 In this incident, it sounds like he was picking targets from those that moved, ran, tried to get out. Playing dead may have been the only option here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #105 July 20, 2012 Quotewhat if he got the guns before going insane ? mental health is something which can vary. unfortunately... Thats a very good point and one I made earlier when discussing this with a shooting buddy.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 883 #106 July 20, 2012 He was a student in a PHD program, surrounded by very intelligent medical type people. We will never be able to detect the nut bags before they display their insanity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #107 July 20, 2012 QuoteWe will never be able to detect the nut bags before they display their insanity. Is there anyting that can be done? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 883 #108 July 20, 2012 Amazing question...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #109 July 20, 2012 QuoteSo how do we prevent these incidents from happening? What drives people to do this in such a premeditated fashion? Is this just the price of the 2nd Amendment? Are people ok with that price? It's more a price of mental illness, though it may be premature to say that is the case for this incident. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #110 July 20, 2012 My choice how best to protect myself. My point, which everyone seems to have missed is tha I am not armed to protect anyone except myself and my family. I would not have tried to shoot this guy unless I felt threatened. I'm not a cop and there's no way I would start shooting in a dark crowded movie theater unless my life was threatened. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #111 July 20, 2012 QuoteQuote>How do we stop drunk drivers from killing people By requiring driver's licenses (and revoking them after drunk driving incidents) having strict drunk driving laws, enforcing them through random stops etc. And it's worked - drunk driving deaths are down significantly over the last 20 years.again, eliminate vs reduce. I am all in with this but the problem did not go away. People wtihout a license or insurance still drive drunk and kill eveyday >How do we stop skydivers from doing HP landing and killing themselves? Through restricting where they can do them. And when they DO do them, have rules on how to do them. In some cases, banning them from skydiving centers and events altogether.Well good, I expect to see no more incidents here. No one else will die under a HP canopy trying a high speed landing then Yet whenever anyone discusses any of the above the right wingers scream "EVIL! GUN-O-PHOBE! FASCISM!" Again, another dishonset diversion Irony score 10/10. In this very thread you have repeated a lie about me. A lie that even you admitted as such in the past.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #112 July 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteEvil or bad exists in the world no matter what you do. It's not hard to build a homemade bomb. No guns just do that. Guns are not the problem... people are the problem and there is not much we can do about that. Things like this have happened since the dawn of time even before guns came around. So basically no discussion regarding strategies to reduce these types of occurences can be had? They are just a fact of life, nothing can be done, move along, nothing to see here. I do not think we do nothing... there are laws, punishments, etc. Also, this is a great reason why we should have the right to bear arms. I think even you have stated that you see no reason to carry a gun. Well here is your reason... nut jobs exist. (period) I choose to protect myself and my family by having a firearm on me. . How well did the CCW holders protect themselves in this event? We have been told repeatedly how CCW laws will prevent events like this.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #113 July 20, 2012 QuoteMy choice how best to protect myself. Yup, I get that. Was just questioning if it was the best choice in general. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #114 July 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote>How do we stop drunk drivers from killing people By requiring driver's licenses (and revoking them after drunk driving incidents) having strict drunk driving laws, enforcing them through random stops etc. And it's worked - drunk driving deaths are down significantly over the last 20 years.again, eliminate vs reduce. I am all in with this but the problem did not go away. People wtihout a license or insurance still drive drunk and kill eveyday >How do we stop skydivers from doing HP landing and killing themselves? Through restricting where they can do them. And when they DO do them, have rules on how to do them. In some cases, banning them from skydiving centers and events altogether.Well good, I expect to see no more incidents here. No one else will die under a HP canopy trying a high speed landing then Yet whenever anyone discusses any of the above the right wingers scream "EVIL! GUN-O-PHOBE! FASCISM!" Again, another dishonset diversion Irony score 10/10. In this very thread you have repeated a lie about me. A lie that even you admitted as such in the past. Nope Not a lie Truth you avoid however"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #115 July 20, 2012 QuoteIt seems one of the main questions to be asked is why is it that the US, for the most part, is the only country where people just commit mass killings just for sport, no other reason. It seems that the majority of mass shootings (or mass murders) in other countries are done ostensibly under the name of religion or politics. Why are we so different? We're not? The last straw in gun rights in the UK came when the Dunblame massacre occurred. There was not political agenda, just a crazy fuck who killed a bunch of kids and then himself. We may not do ourselves any favors with our stigmatized mental health care system, or a much greater than typical reliance on drugs to fix our problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #116 July 20, 2012 QuoteMy choice how best to protect myself. My point, which everyone seems to have missed is tha I am not armed to protect anyone except myself and my family. I would not have tried to shoot this guy unless I felt threatened. I'm not a cop and there's no way I would start shooting in a dark crowded movie theater unless my life was threatened. Thanks for saying that. I can now put you in the more reasonable, less Walter Mitty category. I wish I could do that for more folks, but I keep hearing people comparing this situation to a 7/11 or Internet cafe hold up and I just have to shake my head and wonder what's going on in their heads.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #117 July 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat I am suggesting is people get a bit more realistic when thinking about how arming everyone would somehow fix this sort of event. of course, in that vein, people should also be a bit more realistic when thinking about how DISarming everyone would somehow fix this sort of event Who in this thread has suggested disarming everyone? No-one, its the same lame old strawman that they always trot out.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #118 July 20, 2012 Quote There now saying he was a medical student who dropped out. I suppose if a college full of very bright students and MD's can't see his mental condition, no one can. They're med students, not psychologists. They think they know everything, but mind reading isn't in the cards. If we presuming a defect...I wonder if this came down to a fascination with the Heath Ledger portrayal of the Joker in the last movie, causing chaos for the sake of chaos. It was my first thought when I read the headline. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #119 July 20, 2012 QuoteAmazing question...... You are awefully hesitant to have a discussion on this subject. Guess questions regarding how to try and prevent a mass shooting with a double digit death toll is not something you are willing to think about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #120 July 20, 2012 QuoteHe was a student in a PHD program, surrounded by very intelligent medical type people. We will never be able to detect the nut bags before they display their insanity. Ban US PhD programs. Import all our expertise from China and India.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #121 July 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>How do we stop drunk drivers from killing people By requiring driver's licenses (and revoking them after drunk driving incidents) having strict drunk driving laws, enforcing them through random stops etc. And it's worked - drunk driving deaths are down significantly over the last 20 years.again, eliminate vs reduce. I am all in with this but the problem did not go away. People wtihout a license or insurance still drive drunk and kill eveyday >How do we stop skydivers from doing HP landing and killing themselves? Through restricting where they can do them. And when they DO do them, have rules on how to do them. In some cases, banning them from skydiving centers and events altogether.Well good, I expect to see no more incidents here. No one else will die under a HP canopy trying a high speed landing then Yet whenever anyone discusses any of the above the right wingers scream "EVIL! GUN-O-PHOBE! FASCISM!" Again, another dishonset diversion Irony score 10/10. In this very thread you have repeated a lie about me. A lie that even you admitted as such in the past. Nope Not a lie Truth you avoid however You seem to forget that you have previously admitted having absolutely no evidence to back up this claim that you keep repeating.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #122 July 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat I am suggesting is people get a bit more realistic when thinking about how arming everyone would somehow fix this sort of event. of course, in that vein, people should also be a bit more realistic when thinking about how DISarming everyone would somehow fix this sort of event Who in this thread has suggested disarming everyone? No-one, its the same lame old strawman that they always trot out. look at the bolded above to see the context, John ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 883 #123 July 20, 2012 Not in the least. You presume too much. I'm not a mental health specialist, so I'm probably a poor choice of possible methods of identifying insanity. So far, my only experience with insanity is with ex-girlfriends. Much like most of the gun nuts we have for comparison, I never saw it coming. I seriously haven't a clue how nor if we will ever be able to identify that risk in future behavior. Totally open to discussion though! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #124 July 20, 2012 QuoteI keep hearing people comparing this situation to a 7/11 or Internet cafe hold up and I just have to shake my head and wonder what's going on in their heads. The dark and smoke were different and background noise make it substantially different, but that's not to say a CCW holder can't stop any well armed person sporting 3 gallons of crazy in a 2 gallon bucket. Remember the New Life Church shooting? Come to think of it, that was also in Colorado, as was Columbine...maybe the water that Coor's like to brag about has a dark side. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #125 July 20, 2012 QuoteI'm not a mental health specialist, so I'm probably a poor choice of possible methods of identifying insanity. So far, my only experience with insanity is with ex-girlfriends. Much like most of the gun nuts we have for comparison, I never saw it coming. I seriously haven't a clue how nor if we will ever be able to identify that risk in future behavior. Right, at which point I asked if there were any other options then. If we cannot detect insanity (assuming this was even insanity), then are there other avnues we can pursue to try and prevent this type of occurence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
