normiss 867 #1 July 19, 2012 this guy did and was murdered. and it's looking dirty now... Above the law? Again? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #2 July 19, 2012 Ouch. I guess the deceased should have been quicker on the trigger. Answering the door armed at 1:30 in the morning is a reasonable precaution. And the "attempted murder" is because the guy they were looking for held a cinderblock over someone's head, but never tried to strike their victim with it? Doesn't sound all that "attempted" to me. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #3 July 19, 2012 Quotethis guy did and was murdered. and it's looking dirty now... Above the law? Again? How is it different from Zimmerman "standing his ground"? The deputy didn't break any laws by knocking on the door, then felt threatened and used deadly force. These things are going to happen until Florida revises their asinine laws regarding use of deadly force.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 867 #4 July 19, 2012 Umm. Wow. Just wow. Florida is lightyears ahead SYG than a few other states.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #5 July 19, 2012 QuoteFlorida is lightyears ahead SYG than a few other states.... That, in Florida, it is essentially the deceased legal obligation to prove that he poses no threat to his killer does not support your assertion.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 867 #6 July 19, 2012 So you're gonna ignore the part about this being cops in this instance and that means it has zero meaning to SYG. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie 3 #7 July 19, 2012 i see no reason to revamp any laws, it is great how it is. if you feel threatened, you should have the right to defend yourself. that being said, it sounds like the leo in this case should have used reasonable judgement in attempting to find the true perps. and answering the door with a gun pointed? sounds fishy there as well, but the other side of the story will never be heard, he's dead. this is a tough one, but i would say, based on the stories alone, that at the least, it should be a wrongful death suit, but who am i?http://kitswv.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #8 July 19, 2012 QuoteSo you're gonna ignore the part about this being cops in this instance and that means it has zero meaning to SYG. I'm not ignoring that fact at all. It's wholly reasonable to expect the police to be able to legally use deadly force in a wider range of circumstances than civilians. That is, the scenarios in which a civilian is allowed to use deadly force is a subset of the scenarios in which a police officer is allowed to use deadly force.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #9 July 19, 2012 Quote i see no reason to revamp any laws, it is great how it is. Sure. It doesn't seem to be problematic at all. Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #10 July 19, 2012 Quotesounds fishy there as well, but the other side of the story will never be heard, he's dead. Which brings us to the true moral of Florida's SYG law. Make sure there are no witnesses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 867 #11 July 19, 2012 Wake me up like that at 1:30 in the morning? I'm answering my door the same way. If I even get out of bed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie 3 #12 July 19, 2012 as i read the law, it seemed fine. perhaps you have read it? link not provided, not that hard to find. if you believe all the hype, however...maybe you do put stock in what is reported on the internet, i like to go a little further and see for myself...http://kitswv.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #13 July 19, 2012 Quote Wake me up like that at 1:30 in the morning? I'm answering my door the same way. If I even get out of bed. Well, according to the story you linked, he didn't just answer the door with a "gun in his hand", he opened the door and pointed the gun at the cops. Admittedly, that's their side of the story, and the dead guy doesn't get a chance to tell his. (Remind you of another Florida case? ) But there's a big difference between answering the door with a gun in your hand (I personally keep it down low behind my butt to avoid scaring someone unnecessarily), and yanking the door open and shoving a gun in the "knocker"s" face. If I had a legitimate need to knock on someone's door (at any time of day or night) and had a gun pointed directly at me for no real reason, then I'd probably react too."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 867 #14 July 19, 2012 Given how much the cop story has been changing....hmmm. Not so sure they are believable in this case. Another one we may never know the true story on. Cops should have video for everything. Remote monitoring and guidance. Just think of how many jobs it would create. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danornan 79 #15 July 19, 2012 So what is the safest way to answer your door at 1:30 in the morning? I too would probably be armed at that hour, in my home. Seems like the LEO 's could have found a safer way for all to check on the owner of the bike!Dano Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,085 #16 July 19, 2012 > if you feel threatened, you should have the right to defend yourself. It sounds like that principle was applied in this case. Unfortunately that can lead to cases like this - guy answers the door with a gun, visitor feels threatened and kills him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #17 July 19, 2012 QuoteSo what is the safest way to answer your door at 1:30 in the morning? I too would probably be armed at that hour, in my home. who knows what really happened here. I think I might have pulled out a handgun once in that sort of situation. Definitely kept hidden - sweatshirt with big pockets are good. But at 1:30, I'm not even opening the door. Either ignore it or go verbal through the closed door first. That may not have worked well here where the cops weren't identifying themselves, but then I'm not opening the door either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #18 July 19, 2012 Quote Quote Wake me up like that at 1:30 in the morning? I'm answering my door the same way. If I even get out of bed. Well, according to the story you linked, he didn't just answer the door with a "gun in his hand", he opened the door and pointed the gun at the cops. Admittedly, that's their side of the story, and the dead guy doesn't get a chance to tell his. (Remind you of another Florida case? ) What would the alternative be? The cops knocked on the door, decided, "Hey! Lets shoot this guy!" before he answers, and then blasted him when he does? And then the cops would also have been able to quickly find and grab his gun (assuming he had one, because at this point, he might not have), set it up so it looks like the guy had it on him, AND keep his girlfriend who was there at the time in the dark.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #19 July 20, 2012 QuoteGiven how much the cop story has been changing....hmmm. Not so sure they are believable in this case. Much like Zimmerman. Quote should have video for everything. I mostly agree.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tsisson 0 #20 July 20, 2012 I am armed - but I don't open my door to anyone at 1:30am... Knock Knock..."Who the fuck is it?" is the proper way to deal with the knock at 1:30am when you are armed. Answer - "the Police"...hang on, I'm dialing 911... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #21 July 20, 2012 QuoteI am armed - but I don't open my door to anyone at 1:30am... Knock Knock..."Who the fuck is it?" is the proper way to deal with the knock at 1:30am when you are armed. Answer - "the Police"...hang on, I'm dialing 911... That sounds reasonable.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 867 #22 July 20, 2012 Zimmerman has not changed his story one bit. OK, he has trust issues with the legal system and his donated money.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #23 July 20, 2012 QuoteZimmerman has not changed his story one bit. George Zimmerman’s Story Continues To Shift I suspect spending more than ten seconds on the search (that's about all I spent) would probably yield other sources and/or examples.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 867 #24 July 20, 2012 Actually, from my search, that is the only source I can find. I'll have to look for more tomorrow...too late. thanks for getting me to look deeper into it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #25 July 20, 2012 Quote Zimmerman has not changed his story one bit. OK, he has trust issues with the legal system and his donated money.... I don't think the God's will line did him any favors either. The Lord seems to be a bit inconsistent in this whole sequence of affairs, with his will punishing both people involved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
