Skyrad 0
Recommended Posts
Andy9o8 3
QuoteI presume they said nothing to invalidate fraud charges for those who procure monetary gain from such a lie.
Correct. Fraud is (and always has been) fraud, regardless of the pretext used.
QuoteSexual favours?
No thanks. Married.
kallend 2,182
Quote
QuoteSexual favours?
No thanks. Married.
I fail to see the connection.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteQuoteI presume they said nothing to invalidate fraud charges for those who procure monetary gain from such a lie.
Correct. Fraud is (and always has been) fraud, regardless of the pretext used.
Does this mean one could still be "punished" just not with the SVA?
Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
Andy9o8 3
QuoteQuoteQuoteI presume they said nothing to invalidate fraud charges for those who procure monetary gain from such a lie.
Correct. Fraud is (and always has been) fraud, regardless of the pretext used.
Does this mean one could still be "punished" just not with the SVA?
Matt
Sure. Or sued. Or both.
seems like that's an option in Sweden, but would it get any traction here?
"Your honor, he said he was a CEO with a Ferrari, but instead he's a bum with a Fiat."
"Your honor, he said he was a CEO with a Ferrari, but instead he's a bum with a Fiat."
Andy9o8 3
Quoteseems like that's an option in Sweden, but would it get any traction here?
"Your honor, he said he was a CEO with a Ferrari, but instead he's a bum with a Fiat."
You're missing the point. Telling a lie merely to get some sort of social status is not - without more - criminal and/or civilly-actionable fraud in the US, nor can it otherwise be criminalized by a statute of Congress or a state law. Rather, it is a form of morally reprehensible speech that is otherwise protected by the First Amendment. That's the net effect of the SCOTUS ruling.
Fraud in the US is, generally, using a material misrepresentation to deliberately deceive another party into providing you with something of actual tangible value (like property, or entry into a contract, etc.) which that other party would not have given you but for the deception, or had the party known the actual truth.
Is telling a material lie to get laid a criminal offense these days? I'm not sure; probably not in most cases - but in those same cases it might be enough to qualify for a civil lawsuit on grounds of fraud.
So is telling a lie about, say, military medals or rank you never earned a crime? The SCOTUS said that without more - such as merely to impress people - it is not. Is stealing valor to butter-up a bartender into giving you a beer a crime? Grey area. Is stealing valor in order to get somebody to loan you money, or rent or sell something to you at a discount, or to co-sign a loan for you, or to get free medical treatment at a clinic that offers free medical treatment to veterans, a crime? Yes, and it always has been: because it is criminal fraud, but not because the device of deception happened to be stealing valor.
Quote
Fraud in the US is, generally, using a material misrepresentation to deliberately deceive another party into providing you with something of actual tangible value (like property, or entry into a contract, etc.) which that other party would not have given you but for the deception, or had the party known the actual truth.
Is telling a material lie to get laid a criminal offense these days? I'm not sure; probably not in most cases - but in those same cases it might be enough to qualify for a civil lawsuit on grounds of fraud.
isn't getting laid an example of tangible value? Even the crack whore wants a $20.
Andy9o8 3
QuoteQuote
Fraud in the US is, generally, using a material misrepresentation to deliberately deceive another party into providing you with something of actual tangible value (like property, or entry into a contract, etc.) which that other party would not have given you but for the deception, or had the party known the actual truth.
Is telling a material lie to get laid a criminal offense these days? I'm not sure; probably not in most cases - but in those same cases it might be enough to qualify for a civil lawsuit on grounds of fraud.
isn't getting laid an example of tangible value? Even the crack whore wants a $20.
That's the kind of question they ask on law school and bar exams. My answer would be:
If the crack whore, being a merchant selling a hybrid of goods and services in exchange for value, offers a freebie to any decorated combat veteran, and the valor thief thus fraudulently deceives her into giving him sex for free, that is technically both civil and criminal fraud. That's especially so in a jurisdiction like Nevada where prostitution is legal. In Nevada, I'd think she could sue him civilly for fraud. She may have trouble enforcing her rights civilly in a jurisdiction where prostitution is illegal, but technically I'd think the government could still prosecute the valor thief for criminal fraud, or theft by deception, or whatever it's called in that state.
On the other hand, if the valor thief uses that deception at, say, a bar or at the DZ bonfire - a venue bereft of any moral values in the first place - to get laid with a girl who was looking to hook-up with a guy anyway, then no, it's neither criminal nor civil fraud - it's just life. Caveat emptor.
Quote
On the other hand, if the valor thief uses that deception at, say, a bar or at the DZ bonfire - a venue bereft of any moral values in the first place - to get laid with a girl who was looking to hook-up with a guy anyway, then no, it's neither criminal nor civil fraud - it's just life. Caveat emptor.
and the war on women continues...
On the other hand, if the valor thief uses that deception at, say, a bar or at the DZ bonfire - a venue bereft of any moral values in the first place - to get laid with a girl who was looking to hook-up with a guy anyway, then no, it's neither criminal nor civil fraud - it's just life. Caveat emptor.
Theft of service?
Chuck
Quote
On the other hand, if the valor thief uses that deception at, say, a bar or at the DZ bonfire - a venue bereft of any moral values in the first place - to get laid with a girl who was looking to hook-up with a guy anyway, then no, it's neither criminal nor civil fraud - it's just life. Caveat emptor.
Theft of service?
Caveat Emptor is what I think he's articulating.
Quote
QuoteSexual favours?
No thanks. Married.
You got cut off, too, huh? Talk about caveat emptor.
"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"
QuoteQuote
On the other hand, if the valor thief uses that deception at, say, a bar or at the DZ bonfire - a venue bereft of any moral values in the first place - to get laid with a girl who was looking to hook-up with a guy anyway, then no, it's neither criminal nor civil fraud - it's just life. Caveat emptor.
Theft of service?
Caveat Emptor is what I think he's articulating.
It was my weak attempt at humor.
Chuck
I agree with this.
It doesn't mean that lies aren't criminal. It just eliminates the penalty for lying about a certain topic.
Let fraud take care of the liars.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
It doesn't mean that lies aren't criminal. It just eliminates the penalty for lying about a certain topic.
Let fraud take care of the liars.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites