billvon 3,120 #76 June 28, 2012 >Quotes in this morning's news from the medical community state that the medical >system can't support 40 million new patients. "Our experience also demonstrates that getting every citizen insured doesn’t have to break the bank. First, we establish incentives for those who were uninsured to buy insurance. Using tax penalties, as we did . .. encourages ‘free riders’ to take responsibility for themselves rather than pass their medical costs on to others. This doesn’t cost the government a single dollar." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #77 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuote>Burning more oil than any other organization on Earth, as the US DoD does, >isn't putting money back into the economy. Exxon isn't part of the economy? Saudi Arabia sure isn't, and the oil could be used for other things than burning holes in the sky. Good thing we get twice the oil from Canada that we do from SA, then. And since you mention burning holes in the sky, I'm guessing you sold the Mooney?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 897 #78 June 28, 2012 Wait a sec - we're going to count on a poor person, that can't or won't get health insurance currently to suddenly buy it to avoid a tax penalty? There is a large portion of poor people that could simply care less. Because they can't afford to care. About insurance, about credit, about bills, and about taxes. That ain't gonna change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #79 June 28, 2012 Quote Wait a sec - we're going to count on a poor person, that can't or won't get health insurance currently to suddenly buy it to avoid a tax penalty? There is a large portion of poor people that could simply care less. Because they can't afford to care. About insurance, about credit, about bills, and about taxes. That ain't gonna change. As sad as it is: You are right. Anyhow, there needs to be a change in the near future. The sooner the better. Penalties are nonsense. There should be some kind of interim solution - we have similar for the hobo, going to certain places (mostly *truck docs*) looking for gratis medical help. In the long run, it will be expensive for you guys. If you ever dare to do that change. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #80 June 28, 2012 QuoteBeware. Current administration wants a pretty serious increase in defense spending. Military spending. Not synonymous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 897 #81 June 28, 2012 Fair point. I stand corrected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #82 June 28, 2012 QuoteIn all fairness, buying aircraft carriers IS putting money back into the economy. OK, fine, it's still in the economy. But what it does is keep it bound-up in the feedback loop President Ike quite correctly referred to as the military-industrial complex, when it really needs to be freed-up to be better spent. Translating this into Gobbledygook for shits and giggles, tying up money in the mil-indust complex rather than freeing it up on universal health coverage is like binding-up haemoglobin with carbon monoxide rather than letting it bind with oxygen. As you can see, I'm no scientist, but by god, I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #83 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteIn all fairness, buying aircraft carriers IS putting money back into the economy. OK, fine, it's still in the economy. But what it does is keep it bound-up in the feedback loop President Ike quite correctly referred to as the military-industrial complex, when it really needs to be freed-up to be better spent. Translating this into Gobbledygook for shits and giggles, tying up money in the mil-indust complex rather than freeing it up on universal health coverage is like binding-up haemoglobin with carbon monoxide rather than letting it bind with oxygen. As you can see, I'm no scientist, but by god, I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. And having it tied up in the med-drug complex is different, how?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #84 June 28, 2012 >And having it tied up in the med-drug complex is different, how? From a money perspective not much. Personally I prefer wasting it on saving people's lives rather than killing them, but that's just me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #85 June 28, 2012 Quote Quote Quote In all fairness, buying aircraft carriers IS putting money back into the economy. OK, fine, it's still in the economy. But what it does is keep it bound-up in the feedback loop President Ike quite correctly referred to as the military-industrial complex, when it really needs to be freed-up to be better spent. Translating this into Gobbledygook for shits and giggles, tying up money in the mil-indust complex rather than freeing it up on universal health coverage is like binding-up haemoglobin with carbon monoxide rather than letting it bind with oxygen. As you can see, I'm no scientist, but by god, I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. And having it tied up in the med-drug complex is different, how? Well, for starters, military spending pays for military bases (and those pesky contractors ), while med-drug spending pays for doctors and drugs. At least in theory. Incompetence (as demonstrated by the VA) and corruption (as demonstrated in some other countries - but not all) are hurdles that will have to be overcome, and preferably prevented. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 897 #86 June 28, 2012 great. Government issued prescriptions for all. I'm already avoiding those as much as possible! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #87 June 28, 2012 Quotegreat. Government issued prescriptions for all. I'm already avoiding those as much as possible! And don't forget the 1.7 *TRILLION* dollar tax (next 10 years) that ACA has now become.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #88 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuotegreat. Government issued prescriptions for all. I'm already avoiding those as much as possible! And don't forget the 1.7 *TRILLION* dollar tax (next 10 years) that ACA has now become. WELL, 10 years of improved healthcare seems like a better deal for taxpayers than the unnecessary Iraq invasion and its aftermath.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #89 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotegreat. Government issued prescriptions for all. I'm already avoiding those as much as possible! And don't forget the 1.7 *TRILLION* dollar tax (next 10 years) that ACA has now become. WELL, 10 years of improved healthcare seems like a better deal for taxpayers than the unnecessary Iraq invasion and its aftermath. *yawn* That same lame attempt to blameshift, *again*? Can't think up anything newer or actually relevant? 1.7 *TRILLION* dollar new tax from the man who said "your taxes won't go up one dime" and "The mandate is NOT a 'tax'". And now, instead of the money going to the insurance companies to keep your premiums down, it'll go to fed.gov. Of course, the insurance companies have *already* raised premiums, but I'm sure they'll go up even more now that they're not going to be getting that money.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shredex 0 #90 June 28, 2012 I live in Pasco County. One of the top pill head counties in the US. These pill heads have horrid health problems from there drug addictions. These people also contribute nothing to society except for making the town dirty. I'm very glad that I get to pay for these peoples medical bills... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #91 June 28, 2012 QuoteI live in Pasco County. One of the top pill head counties in the US. These pill heads have horrid health problems from there drug addictions. These people also contribute nothing to society except for making the town dirty. I'm very glad that I get to pay for these peoples medical bills... You already did under the previous scheme. Every time they went to the ER, the hospital passed the cost on to paying customers. So there's no change there.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #92 June 28, 2012 Quote I live in Pasco County. One of the top pill head counties in the US. These pill heads have horrid health problems from there drug addictions. These people also contribute nothing to society except for making the town dirty. I'm very glad that I get to pay for these peoples medical bills... And you wanna be a skydiver, right. Not everybodys hobby, I guess - a bit dangerous. And all those *others* have to pay for you in case you crash into the plants. Yes or no? Think twice, blaterskite dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #93 June 28, 2012 I'd like to hear some of the right wing folks who defended Romneycare because it is at the state level, but claimed Obamacare was unconstitutional at the federal level, to tell us now what the essential differences are between Romneycare and Obamacare. And when they've done that, they can tell us how Obamacare is different to the several previous GOP proposals (from Nixon, Heritage, the Jackson Hole group, Bob Dole, Chuck Grassley, Orrin Hatch, Richard Lugar and 16 other GOP senators with the support of Newt Gingrich as Speaker) that involved individual mandates.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 897 #94 June 28, 2012 The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #95 June 28, 2012 QuoteI'd like to hear some of the right wing folks who defended Romneycare because it is at the state level, but claimed Obamacare was unconstitutional at the federal level, to tell us now what the essential differences are between Romneycare and Obamacare. You already showed the difference - state vs. federal. Romneycare: Buy insurance or pay for your own care. Obamacare: Buy insurance or pay fed.gov. QuoteAnd when they've done that, they can tell us how Obamacare is different to the several previous GOP proposals (from Nixon, Heritage, the Jackson Hole group, Bob Dole, Chuck Grassley, Orrin Hatch, Richard Lugar and 16 other GOP senators with the support of Newt Gingrich as Speaker) that involved individual mandates. You mean the counter to Hillarycare that *DIDN'T* have a mandate?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #96 June 28, 2012 QuoteThe powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Sorry, but today's SCOTUS ruling dealt that one a death blow. ACA is Constitutional.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bertt 0 #97 June 28, 2012 You've summed up the Democratic Party very briefly and accurately. The goal is laudable; the execution deplorable. The health care law is a poorly crafted, complicated piece of legislation that, at the very least, needs some refinement. This happened because the Democrats argued amongst themselves for a year, then allowed any legislator to put whatever he wanted in the bill in order to get enough votes to pass it. My favorite example was the absolutely unrelated and ridiculous 1099 reporting requirement that was part of the health care law and has already been removed. Now the challenge is to pay for health care for all with something that the President doesn't want to call a tax and the Supreme Court doesn't want to call a mandate. Here's an article that summarizes most of the provisions http://www.journalofaccountancy.com/News/20125972.htm Including some that don't seem to have a lot to do with health care: Change to cellulosic biofuel producer credit (Sec. 40): Excludes from the definition of cellulosic biofuel any fuels that (1) are more than 4% (determined by weight) water and sediment in any combination or (2) have an ash content of more than 1% (determined by weight) (so-called black liquor). (Effective 2010.) Expanded 1099 reporting: This change was repealed by the Comprehensive 1099 Taxpayer Protection and Repayment of Exchange Subsidy Overpayments Act of 2011, P.L. 112-9.You don't have to outrun the bear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #98 June 28, 2012 Good summary. Good plan for the law, poor execution. It is far from a well crafted law and absolutely will have unintended consequences as it drives changes to the structure of the healthcare system. The only thing going for it is that it is marginally better than what we have now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #99 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Sorry, but today's SCOTUS ruling dealt that one a death blow. ACA is Constitutional. As a TAX and not a commerce clause mandate...and the states can't be penalized for ignoring it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 897 #100 June 28, 2012 So they are chipping away at the 10th. Interesting approach to rolling out socialism IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
