Bankers are the new mobsters ...

[weekender 0]

>You want to go back and maybe change that one?
>I'm sure you know full well that those you have called >out in your post were criminals and that there were >victims to their crime.

I do not.

You dont seem to understand my point so i will be more clear. Insider trading is not a crime with a direct or specific victim. There is no one specific person damaged by the act. it erodes confidence in the broader markets and that is why its illegal. 11 years is not a light sentence was my point. not when you compare it to historical sentences for insider trading.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[shah269 0]

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There is no one specific person damaged by the act. it erodes confidence in the broader markets and that is why it's illegal

Thus we are all victims with respect to insider trading the same way we are victims when a bank is robbed.

And with respect to Madoff i recall there were many many many victims many of which lost everything they ever had.

Thus is it too far of a leap to quantify these people as terrorists?
And perhaps maybe to bring these guys "in" the feds should create a "untouchables" division for financial crime?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 3,120]

>Thus is it too far of a leap to quantify these people as terrorists?

Yes.

[shah269 0]

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>Thus is it too far of a leap to quantify these people as terrorists?

Yes.

Ok why? A terrorists can damage products/buildings and not hurt a single person and still cause you to loose trust.

So why can't these men be quantified as terrorists?

They do as much damage to the fabric of society.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[weekender 0]

>Thus we are all victims with respect to insider trading the same way we are victims when a bank is robbed.

What? That has nothing to do with the point we were discussing. It also doesnt make much sense. What if i dont have an account at that bank? not to mention my money is insured so how am i damaged? you need to focus on one point at a time.

as i recall, you claimed that society should punish these people more harshly. i gave examples of how they are. i specifically use Raj to show how without even a specific victim or loss, the punishment was harsh. expecially by historical standards.


your terrorist comment is just plain silly. no reasonable person could label those men terrorist.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[michalm21 2]

bankers=shysters
closed all bank accounts, will rather starve than give them a penny
no sympathy from me
not going to return to this thread either

[billvon 3,120]

>Ok why? A terrorists can damage products/buildings and not hurt a single person
>and still cause you to loose trust.

Terrorists intend to kill people. That's how they work - to make people afraid for their lives. "Terrorists" who destroy buildings carefully without risking injury to people are called demolition experts, and make a lot of money here in the US.

>So why can't these men be quantified as terrorists? They do as much damage to the
>fabric of society.

No, they don't. They just lose people money. That's different than threatening to kill them.

[billvon 3,120]

>bankers=shysters closed all bank accounts, will rather starve than give them a penny

Hey Shah, check this guy out! He doesn't like bankers so he's going to stop giving them money. Simple, eh?

[shah269 0]

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your terrorist comment is just plain silly. no reasonable person could label those men terrorist.

How so? Take the word apart.
Terror
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terror
A state of intense fear
A frightening aspect
A cause of anxiety

A terrorist is one who brings about "a state of intense fear, uncertainty or anxiety"

Thus these men can and should be tried as terrorists for in sighting terror in our financial system which at this moment in time is more powerful and more important than ever before.

Furthermore, I highly resent you utilizing and falling back on the "But the money was insured" line of logic. For I can fall on the conservative line of "Well who pays for the insurance?" We the people do. And the "victim" goes from a simple old lady who lost everything she had with Madoff to all of us who lost $50 out of our pockets over and over again.

I'm sorry but as I have said before, defending the actions of these criminal bankers is like me trying to defend the insanity that is Iran. I'm sorry I can't. All I can do is just distance myself and demonstrate that I am better than those miserable bastards.
Hence why I am so dumbfounded when I hear and see conservatives attempting to argue for more freedom for folks who have demonstrated their ability and willingness to bring about great terror to our society.

Again please note I'm not saying all bankers are evil or lacking of moral fiber. We are talking about 1% of 1%. But the damage they do! My god! The damage they do.....

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 3,120]

>A terrorist is one who brings about "a state of intense fear, uncertainty or anxiety"

Uh oh! Tandem masters are terrorists!

[shah269 0]

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>A terrorist is one who brings about "a state of intense fear, uncertainty or anxiety"

Uh oh! Tandem masters are terrorists!

Bill really? I mean really! Don't you think that's a little silly?

Come on.

and yeah my money is at my credit union.
it's the best i can do and i think it's the right thing to do.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 3,120]

>Bill really? I mean really! Don't you think that's a little silly?

Yes it is! Just because they cause some people intense fear doesn't make them terrorists. (And just because bankers cause you intense fear doesn't make them terrorists.)

>and yeah my money is at my credit union. It's the best i can do and i think it's the right thing to do.

Great. I assume you know that credit unions are no protection against fraud. But if you prefer that to stuffing money in your mattress, then that's a choice you should have.

[shah269 0]

they cause some people intense fear
OK that is just too funny and I'll let it go at that.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[weekender 0]

Quote

Quote

your terrorist comment is just plain silly. no reasonable person could label those men terrorist.

How so? Take the word apart.
Terror
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terror
A state of intense fear
A frightening aspect
A cause of anxiety

A terrorist is one who brings about "a state of intense fear, uncertainty or anxiety"

Thus these men can and should be tried as terrorists for in sighting terror in our financial system which at this moment in time is more powerful and more important than ever before.

Furthermore, I highly resent you utilizing and falling back on the "But the money was insured" line of logic. For I can fall on the conservative line of "Well who pays for the insurance?" We the people do. And the "victim" goes from a simple old lady who lost everything she had with Madoff to all of us who lost $50 out of our pockets over and over again.

I'm sorry but as I have said before, defending the actions of these criminal bankers is like me trying to defend the insanity that is Iran. I'm sorry I can't. All I can do is just distance myself and demonstrate that I am better than those miserable bastards.
Hence why I am so dumbfounded when I hear and see conservatives attempting to argue for more freedom for folks who have demonstrated their ability and willingness to bring about great terror to our society.

Again please note I'm not saying all bankers are evil or lacking of moral fiber. We are talking about 1% of 1%. But the damage they do! My god! The damage they do.....

I dont defend their actions. you missed the point. i stated they were punished. being sentenced to die in prison is the harshest punishment you can receive in the US for this crime. Nearly the harshest you can recieve for any crime.

I argued for more regulations. Read my post. again, you missed the point.

im not a conservative. you know that. i told you in a PM my wife is a very active member of the Dem party. again, missed the point.

i stand by my, "silly", comment. no reasonable person would consider the three i mentioned terrorists. your attempt to prove your point makes mine.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[shah269 0]

Weekender,
Never accused you of being a conservative. Not like that's a bad thing anyway.

However

Quote

i stand by my, "silly", comment. no reasonable person would consider the three i mentioned terrorists. your attempt to prove your point makes mine.

After what they have done to the system and the people why would they not be called and prosecuted as terrorists?

They brought terror to many individuals as well as a trusted system.

Just because they did it for personal gain rather than religious ideals does that relinquish them from the title terrorist?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[weekender 0]

I worked downtown on 9/11. passed through the WTC like many others that morning. i walked down 75 flights after the planes hit. Was a few blocks from the towers when the fell. THAT was a terror attack. that made people fearful. I'm betting you never even heard of Standford or Raj till i mentioned them. let this one go. you cannot convince me that any reasonable person would believe the three men i mentioned were terrorists.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[shah269 0]

I knew of them.
That pesky NPR thing and me enjoying reading finance publications. Galion group...nice hedge fund that did rather well on insider info from a GS employee.

You know the funny part, the sad funny part, if that camel fucker was smart he would not have ordered those attacks. Buildings come and buildings go. If he really wanted to have crippled the US and put us in a state of fear he would have leveraged his father's vast resources and killed our banking system.

God knows at the hands of some of our very own terrorists we almost did a good job of killing it ourselves. But with Binladins billions.....it could have been much much worse!

Terrorism isn't about buildings and bombs.
Sometimes all a terrorist has to do is undermine a system that we all rely on to live our day to day lives.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[kelpdiver 2]

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As for getting stabbed? Man I will gladly give $50 to any crack head if it ensured me that for the rest of my life I would be free from the actions of a few financial terrorists.

How many crack heads would go find a knife once it became clear that everyone would gladly give them $50 every time they asked? That's the same brilliance that has bums taking buses to San Francisco where they can make a living panhandling.

[kelpdiver 2]

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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/barclays-chair-quits-devastating-libor-061637797.html
Barclays chairman quits over rate-fixing scandal


Yeah ok so he walks and takes his money and him and his kids and his kids kids and his kids kids kids will live long happy lives off their ill gotten gains?

How is this right again? And how can the GOP defend people like this saying that they should be provided more "freedom" to make more money?

You didn't read through your article very closely. "Britain's Serious Fraud Office said it would decide within a month whether to press criminal charges against any of the banks under investigation."

It's premature to say anyone walked away...the story broke just last week. I don't see Bob Diamond surviving this one as CEO, and it wouldn't surprise me to see people charged. But mind you, this is England, not America and with different systems of justice.

[weekender 0]

One thing about the Libor scandal i actually found a bit humous in a gallows sense. from what i read the traders involved were colluding to keep the offers down. by doing this they were keeping the libor rates artificially low. this is a criminal act as far as i can tell but it actually would benefit anyone getting a loan. so by colluding to fix the Libor rate they actually helped anyone borrowing money at any given time. thats kinda humorous.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[kallend 2,154]

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>Ok why? A terrorists can damage products/buildings and not hurt a single person
>and still cause you to loose trust.

Terrorists intend to kill people. That's how they work - to make people afraid for their lives. .

So cyber terrorists aren't terrorists at all then. They just want to shut down systems.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shah269 0]

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One thing about the Libor scandal i actually found a bit humous in a gallows sense. from what i read the traders involved were colluding to keep the offers down. by doing this they were keeping the libor rates artificially low. this is a criminal act as far as i can tell but it actually would benefit anyone getting a loan. so by colluding to fix the Libor rate they actually helped anyone borrowing money at any given time. thats kinda humorous.

Very very true!
So what is going to happen next? The rates will climb fast?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[weekender 0]

Quote

Quote

One thing about the Libor scandal i actually found a bit humous in a gallows sense. from what i read the traders involved were colluding to keep the offers down. by doing this they were keeping the libor rates artificially low. this is a criminal act as far as i can tell but it actually would benefit anyone getting a loan. so by colluding to fix the Libor rate they actually helped anyone borrowing money at any given time. thats kinda humorous.

Very very true!
So what is going to happen next? The rates will climb fast?

im not going to pretend to know. im assuming, like all traders who do stuff like this, they moved the market very little. the money is made by scalping little amounts on large trades. you cannot move the market so much that regulators notice. so my best guess is nothing will happen with the rates. Just a guess, we would need an actual Libor trader on here to comment. I'm guessing they are in a meeting right now though, hah.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[shah269 0]

True it may stay low, but my god can interest rates on money get any lower?

Who knows? But still, you would hope people would be better?

I guess that's the human condition.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[winsor 236]

Quote

Quote

>Thus is it too far of a leap to quantify these people as terrorists?

Yes.

Ok why? A terrorists can damage products/buildings and not hurt a single person and still cause you to loose trust.

So why can't these men be quantified as terrorists?

They do as much damage to the fabric of society.

V. I. Lenin said something to the effect that, the purpose of terrorism is to terrorize.

The purpose of the bankers was to turn a buck, period.

If everyone benefited marvelously from thair actions, that would be fine with them.

If they made tons of money and nobody noticed one way or another, that's cool too.

If they got staggering bonuses and lots of people wound up screwed, the important point is that they should not be among those who got screwed. The people who did get screwed were obviously not as smart as them, and amounted to little more than collateral damage.

To call everything terrorism is intellectually lazy at best.


BSBD,

Winsor