billvon 3,132 #51 June 29, 2012 >What makes you think that bullet lead is any more dangerous than natural lead deposits? Same reason nuclear waste is more dangerous than pitchblende deposits. It's removed from a fairly stable strata where it has been for millions of years, concentrated, treated and then dropped somewhere in the environment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #52 June 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteWhat makes you think that natural lead ore deposits (mostly galena) are leaching into the water supply at a rate higher than gun enthusiasts are putting it out there? What makes you think that bullet lead is any more dangerous than natural lead deposits? http://www.utexas.edu/safety/ehs/msds/lead.html those natural lead deposits aren't being exploded through a tiny barrel and then hitting a target at 1000fps. Lead dust is a much bigger deal than veins of lead in the rock. Much more surface area, and light enough to be spread in the wind and in rain runoff. Outdoors this generally wouldn't be a big concern due to dispersion, but in areas where hunting congregates, it can be. Animals will tend to be near water, no? And thus so will the shooters. I think the lead in the carcasses is a bigger deal, but can't dismiss it away as being as harmless as natural lead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #53 June 29, 2012 Quote .... I suppose you dig your bullets out of all the animals you shoot and recycle them? If the bullet still is in the animals' body and I can find it: I dig it out, sure. All *hunting* metal picked up in our hunting areas or at the shooting range will be collected. I'm no re-loader, all found cartridges/bullets will be thrown into the collection container. And no, I do not recycle by myself. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #54 June 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteWhat makes you think that natural lead ore deposits (mostly galena) are leaching into the water supply at a rate higher than gun enthusiasts are putting it out there? What makes you think that bullet lead is any more dangerous than natural lead deposits? The isotope analysis from dead condors. Analysis of the digestive systems of dead waterfowl.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #55 September 4, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote>Iowa did research Extensive Found no scientific reason to ban lead shot Well, I guess the Iowa Condor will not be going extinct any time soon, then. Seem the CA will not be either as the CA fish and wildlife has declinded any further lead ban"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #56 September 4, 2012 Typical QuoteSpecifically, two recent studies published by UC Davis researchers Terra R. Kelly and Christine K. Johnson purport to show that golden eagles and turkey vultures have significantly higher blood-lead levels during hunting season, in comparison to the off-season, and that lead exposure in both species declined significantly after the implementation of the AB 821 lead ammunition ban. But the UC Davis researchers' methodology behind their publications was so flawed that their conclusions are unreliable. and QuoteThe NRA's presentation anticipated and addressed the arguments raised by proponents of the lead ammo ban. Through an extensive investigation, the NRA obtained and analyzed tens of thousands of pages of public records and data. In preparation for their presentation, the NRA and CRPA representatives analyzed the public records and data, as well as peer-reviewed papers including the UC authors' publications. These efforts showed that the most recent study was based on data that was cherry picked to reach pre-conceived conclusions. In fact, the researchers' conclusions in their own prior publications contradicted their most recent conclusions. We mush conclude that REAL data is hard to argue with QuoteThe NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #57 September 6, 2012 Isn't it amazing how real research and data, when examined correctly/scientifically, and reported correctly, can kill a thread?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #58 September 6, 2012 QuoteIsn't it amazing how real research and data, when examined correctly/scientifically, and reported correctly, can kill a thread? Why don't you show us some, then, rather than the NRA's opinion?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #59 September 6, 2012 QuoteQuoteIsn't it amazing how real research and data, when examined correctly/scientifically, and reported correctly, can kill a thread? Why don't you show us some, then, rather than the NRA's opinion? Comprehension problems again?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #60 September 6, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteIsn't it amazing how real research and data, when examined correctly/scientifically, and reported correctly, can kill a thread? Why don't you show us some, then, rather than the NRA's opinion? Comprehension problems again? You haven't shown us any real data - just NRA opinions and spin. Try again.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #61 September 7, 2012 QuoteThe NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #62 September 7, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #63 September 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote The NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it. Is the ban being placed on lead shot? Nothing more needs to be said"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #64 September 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote The NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it. Is the ban being placed on lead shot? Nothing more needs to be said Right, you just contradicted the information from the spin you quoted. Nothing more needs to be said.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #65 September 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote The NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it. Is the ban being placed on lead shot? Nothing more needs to be said Right, you just contradicted the information from the spin you quoted. Nothing more needs to be said. Well I guess the NRA is just smarter than you and CA fish and game Next spin is? Oh, and you really need to work on your reading comprehension Quote but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #66 September 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote The NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it. Is the ban being placed on lead shot? Nothing more needs to be said Right, you just contradicted the information from the spin you quoted. Nothing more needs to be said. Well I guess the NRA is just smarter than you and CA fish and game Next spin is? Oh, and you really need to work on your reading comprehension Quote but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: You haven't shown us any data, just NRA's claims about it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #67 September 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote The NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it. Is the ban being placed on lead shot? Nothing more needs to be said Right, you just contradicted the information from the spin you quoted. Nothing more needs to be said. Well I guess the NRA is just smarter than you and CA fish and game Next spin is? Oh, and you really need to work on your reading comprehension Quote but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: You haven't shown us any data, just NRA's claims about it. Ahh yes But the NRA used data to make the case And the NRA won against knee jerk enviro reactionaries"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #68 September 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote The NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it. Is the ban being placed on lead shot? Nothing more needs to be said Right, you just contradicted the information from the spin you quoted. Nothing more needs to be said. Well I guess the NRA is just smarter than you and CA fish and game Next spin is? Oh, and you really need to work on your reading comprehension Quote but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: You haven't shown us any data, just NRA's claims about it. Ahh yes But the NRA used data to make the case And the NRA won against knee jerk enviro reactionaries So the NRA says, as reported by you. You do not have the most outstanding record for accurate reporting on here, and the NRA is not unbiased.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #69 September 7, 2012 Put down the shovel and back away "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #70 September 7, 2012 Quote Put down the shovel and back away www.thespectrum.com/article/20120901/NEWS/309010005/Lead-poisoning-still-threatening-endangered-condor-population?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFront ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #71 September 7, 2012 Quote Put down the shovel and back away www.azfamily.com/news/Condors-being-poisoned-by-lead-ammunition-168854036.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #72 September 7, 2012 www.sacbee.com/2012/08/28/4766005/lead-ammunition-still-hampers.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Southern_Man 0 #73 September 7, 2012 Regardless of what CA fish and game decided, or what the data showed, concentrated lead in the environment is not good. I urge hunters and fisherman to use non-lead substitutes if at all practical and possible."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #74 September 7, 2012 I thought I'd try to lighten things up a little here. I really don't want to get into a pissing contest with anyone, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth. We shoot lead bullets and shot all the time in Montana. It isn't really causing much of problem here, and most people don't worry about it. I've been told that steel shot doesn't shoot near as well as lead, and is hard on your gun. Every pheasant hunter I know shoots lead on pheasants. It's still legal. For water-foul you can't shoot lead....that's the law. I've experimented somewhat with copper bullets in my big game rifles. They are expensive. Some shoot very well. Some people are starting to worry about eating a big game animal that has been shot with lead bullets. I've done that for years. I don't know of anyone who's suffered any ill effects from it. Some times you spit out a piece of bone or lead. If you butcher carefully, that won't happen. When we were kids we'd eat pheasants and ducks. We'd spit out lead shot all the time. When I fish, I still bite my lead sinkers with my teeth. Maybe I need to rethink all that. So, far I can still think pretty well....but there are those times when I can't remember what the 1st point is on a twenty way. I wonder if that means anything? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,182 #75 September 7, 2012 Quote I thought I'd try to lighten things up a little here. I really don't want to get into a pissing contest with anyone, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth. We shoot lead bullets and shot all the time in Montana. It isn't really causing much of problem here, and most people don't worry about it. I've been told that steel shot doesn't shoot near as well as lead, and is hard on your gun. Every pheasant hunter I know shoots lead on pheasants. It's still legal. For water-foul you can't shoot lead....that's the law. I've experimented somewhat with copper bullets in my big game rifles. They are expensive. Some shoot very well. Some people are starting to worry about eating a big game animal that has been shot with lead bullets. I've done that for years. I don't know of anyone who's suffered any ill effects from it. Some times you spit out a piece of bone or lead. If you butcher carefully, that won't happen. When we were kids we'd eat pheasants and ducks. We'd spit out lead shot all the time. When I fish, I still bite my lead sinkers with my teeth. Maybe I need to rethink all that. So, far I can still think pretty well....but there are those times when I can't remember what the 1st point is on a twenty way. I wonder if that means anything? The issue isn't that you are poisoning the pheasants that you shoot. It isn't lead poisoning that kills them, you know. It's that Condors eat carrion that has lead pellets in it, and the lead accumulates because it isn't expelled from their system. Neither do they spit out the lead pellets like you do.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
rushmc 23 #56 September 4, 2012 Typical QuoteSpecifically, two recent studies published by UC Davis researchers Terra R. Kelly and Christine K. Johnson purport to show that golden eagles and turkey vultures have significantly higher blood-lead levels during hunting season, in comparison to the off-season, and that lead exposure in both species declined significantly after the implementation of the AB 821 lead ammunition ban. But the UC Davis researchers' methodology behind their publications was so flawed that their conclusions are unreliable. and QuoteThe NRA's presentation anticipated and addressed the arguments raised by proponents of the lead ammo ban. Through an extensive investigation, the NRA obtained and analyzed tens of thousands of pages of public records and data. In preparation for their presentation, the NRA and CRPA representatives analyzed the public records and data, as well as peer-reviewed papers including the UC authors' publications. These efforts showed that the most recent study was based on data that was cherry picked to reach pre-conceived conclusions. In fact, the researchers' conclusions in their own prior publications contradicted their most recent conclusions. We mush conclude that REAL data is hard to argue with QuoteThe NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #57 September 6, 2012 Isn't it amazing how real research and data, when examined correctly/scientifically, and reported correctly, can kill a thread?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #58 September 6, 2012 QuoteIsn't it amazing how real research and data, when examined correctly/scientifically, and reported correctly, can kill a thread? Why don't you show us some, then, rather than the NRA's opinion?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #59 September 6, 2012 QuoteQuoteIsn't it amazing how real research and data, when examined correctly/scientifically, and reported correctly, can kill a thread? Why don't you show us some, then, rather than the NRA's opinion? Comprehension problems again?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #60 September 6, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteIsn't it amazing how real research and data, when examined correctly/scientifically, and reported correctly, can kill a thread? Why don't you show us some, then, rather than the NRA's opinion? Comprehension problems again? You haven't shown us any real data - just NRA opinions and spin. Try again.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #61 September 7, 2012 QuoteThe NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #62 September 7, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #63 September 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote The NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it. Is the ban being placed on lead shot? Nothing more needs to be said"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #64 September 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote The NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it. Is the ban being placed on lead shot? Nothing more needs to be said Right, you just contradicted the information from the spin you quoted. Nothing more needs to be said.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #65 September 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote The NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it. Is the ban being placed on lead shot? Nothing more needs to be said Right, you just contradicted the information from the spin you quoted. Nothing more needs to be said. Well I guess the NRA is just smarter than you and CA fish and game Next spin is? Oh, and you really need to work on your reading comprehension Quote but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #66 September 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote The NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it. Is the ban being placed on lead shot? Nothing more needs to be said Right, you just contradicted the information from the spin you quoted. Nothing more needs to be said. Well I guess the NRA is just smarter than you and CA fish and game Next spin is? Oh, and you really need to work on your reading comprehension Quote but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: You haven't shown us any data, just NRA's claims about it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #67 September 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote The NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it. Is the ban being placed on lead shot? Nothing more needs to be said Right, you just contradicted the information from the spin you quoted. Nothing more needs to be said. Well I guess the NRA is just smarter than you and CA fish and game Next spin is? Oh, and you really need to work on your reading comprehension Quote but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: You haven't shown us any data, just NRA's claims about it. Ahh yes But the NRA used data to make the case And the NRA won against knee jerk enviro reactionaries"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #68 September 7, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote The NRA showed the commission not only that the studies were flawed, but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: Condor blood-lead levels actually slightly increased after AB 821 was implemented. NRA also obtained information from the Department of Fish and Game's own law enforcement wardens showing that 99 percent of all hunters were complying with the lead ammunition ban in the "Condor Zone." If that is not enough Look it up yourself BUT It was good enough for CA fish and game But not you it seems So you don't have any actual data, just the NRA's spin on it. Got it. Is the ban being placed on lead shot? Nothing more needs to be said Right, you just contradicted the information from the spin you quoted. Nothing more needs to be said. Well I guess the NRA is just smarter than you and CA fish and game Next spin is? Oh, and you really need to work on your reading comprehension Quote but that the data actually showed the opposite of what proponents were claiming: You haven't shown us any data, just NRA's claims about it. Ahh yes But the NRA used data to make the case And the NRA won against knee jerk enviro reactionaries So the NRA says, as reported by you. You do not have the most outstanding record for accurate reporting on here, and the NRA is not unbiased.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #69 September 7, 2012 Put down the shovel and back away "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #70 September 7, 2012 Quote Put down the shovel and back away www.thespectrum.com/article/20120901/NEWS/309010005/Lead-poisoning-still-threatening-endangered-condor-population?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFront ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #71 September 7, 2012 Quote Put down the shovel and back away www.azfamily.com/news/Condors-being-poisoned-by-lead-ammunition-168854036.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #72 September 7, 2012 www.sacbee.com/2012/08/28/4766005/lead-ammunition-still-hampers.html... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #73 September 7, 2012 Regardless of what CA fish and game decided, or what the data showed, concentrated lead in the environment is not good. I urge hunters and fisherman to use non-lead substitutes if at all practical and possible."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #74 September 7, 2012 I thought I'd try to lighten things up a little here. I really don't want to get into a pissing contest with anyone, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth. We shoot lead bullets and shot all the time in Montana. It isn't really causing much of problem here, and most people don't worry about it. I've been told that steel shot doesn't shoot near as well as lead, and is hard on your gun. Every pheasant hunter I know shoots lead on pheasants. It's still legal. For water-foul you can't shoot lead....that's the law. I've experimented somewhat with copper bullets in my big game rifles. They are expensive. Some shoot very well. Some people are starting to worry about eating a big game animal that has been shot with lead bullets. I've done that for years. I don't know of anyone who's suffered any ill effects from it. Some times you spit out a piece of bone or lead. If you butcher carefully, that won't happen. When we were kids we'd eat pheasants and ducks. We'd spit out lead shot all the time. When I fish, I still bite my lead sinkers with my teeth. Maybe I need to rethink all that. So, far I can still think pretty well....but there are those times when I can't remember what the 1st point is on a twenty way. I wonder if that means anything? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #75 September 7, 2012 Quote I thought I'd try to lighten things up a little here. I really don't want to get into a pissing contest with anyone, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth. We shoot lead bullets and shot all the time in Montana. It isn't really causing much of problem here, and most people don't worry about it. I've been told that steel shot doesn't shoot near as well as lead, and is hard on your gun. Every pheasant hunter I know shoots lead on pheasants. It's still legal. For water-foul you can't shoot lead....that's the law. I've experimented somewhat with copper bullets in my big game rifles. They are expensive. Some shoot very well. Some people are starting to worry about eating a big game animal that has been shot with lead bullets. I've done that for years. I don't know of anyone who's suffered any ill effects from it. Some times you spit out a piece of bone or lead. If you butcher carefully, that won't happen. When we were kids we'd eat pheasants and ducks. We'd spit out lead shot all the time. When I fish, I still bite my lead sinkers with my teeth. Maybe I need to rethink all that. So, far I can still think pretty well....but there are those times when I can't remember what the 1st point is on a twenty way. I wonder if that means anything? The issue isn't that you are poisoning the pheasants that you shoot. It isn't lead poisoning that kills them, you know. It's that Condors eat carrion that has lead pellets in it, and the lead accumulates because it isn't expelled from their system. Neither do they spit out the lead pellets like you do.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
