Gravitymaster 0 #101 June 25, 2012 Narcissism does create a blind spot, doesn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 906 #102 June 25, 2012 I was intentionally being a bit abrasive. Cause that's what seems to be thrown out towards both sides in order to get them to pause for consideration. Much like the intention of the initiator of the vagina debates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #103 June 25, 2012 QuoteI was intentionally being a bit abrasive. I know - I like your posts ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #104 June 25, 2012 >AGAIN, this is only relevant if you buy into the emotional argument that abortion >is about men trying to control a woman's body. It assumes there is no child involved >anywhere in the equation. If we assume there is no child in the equation (potential or realized) then it's not an issue; it's akin to deciding whether to remove an ovarian cyst. The reason it is so contentious is precisely because there is a potential child involved. No one assumes otherwise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #105 June 25, 2012 Quote I still stand by my belief that abortion should remain a choice. Like it is now. For the most part, I agree. I am pro-choice, though my reasons are more complicated than not wanting men to tell me what to do with my vagina. I think taking the discussion in that direction only puts up a barrier to authentic discussion on the issue. And in the scenario I made up, she likely wouldn't have had the choice to have that abortion. I think it would have been banned in most states. And in the states where it's not banned, I would hope most doctors would refuse to perform that particular abortion. Someone mentioned that the doctor should not be part of the decision, but I think they are in that they should be able to refuse an abortion in certain situations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #106 June 25, 2012 Quoteit's akin to deciding whether to remove an ovarian cyst.' Ya, until the cyst grows a head and demands money from you!Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #107 June 25, 2012 Quote> potential child involved. No one assumes otherwise. Search "not a baby" here on SC I'm not claiming either way, but trying to control the verbage is a huge component of both sides of the argument. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #108 June 25, 2012 >Search "not a baby" here on SC Which is why I said "potential child." Again, if we're talking about a tumor the discussion becomes a lot simpler. >but trying to control the verbage is a huge component of both sides of the argument. Agreed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #109 June 25, 2012 Quote>Search "not a baby" here on SC Which is why I said "potential child." Again, if we're talking about a tumor the discussion becomes a lot simpler. From previous abortion discussions on here, I think there are a number of people who consider a fetus to be more similar to a tumor than to a "potential child." And, of course, those people also seem to think the abortion issue is pretty simple. ("Don't tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body. Case closed.") Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 906 #110 June 25, 2012 I honestly think if most people were honest about it, same view as yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #111 June 25, 2012 QuoteQuote>Search "not a baby" here on SC Which is why I said "potential child." Again, if we're talking about a tumor the discussion becomes a lot simpler. From previous abortion discussions on here, I think there are a number of people who consider a fetus to be more similar to a tumor than to a "potential child." And, of course, those people also seem to think the abortion issue is pretty simple. ("Don't tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body. Case closed.") What's really offensive is the debasement of life..."It's just a tumor, it's just a cyst...this is really about my vagina isn't it?" I guess that makes sense...I suppose most people would have to lie to themselves in order to kill any person, let alone their own flesh and blood.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,602 #112 June 25, 2012 When do you think a fertilized egg becomes a baby? And once it's a baby, how far should one go to make sure it's treated like a full-up human being? Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #113 June 25, 2012 QuoteWhen do you think a fertilized egg becomes a baby? Maybe when it's heart starts beating? QuoteAnd once it's a baby, how far should one go to make sure it's treated like a full-up human being? I think a mother would go as far as she can for her baby...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #114 June 25, 2012 Quote Quote Do you think society (generically) should be telling you what you can and cannot do with your own body, Wendy? fixed it - this is the real argument, "men vs women" is the emotional argument that fuzzes it up. INCORRECT, because what I wrote was a direct response to Wendy, who explicitly referred to MEN... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #115 June 25, 2012 Quote Quote I find it interesting that, yet again, the main participants in a discussion about abortion are men. Wendy P. Well, it seems some people are trying to make this a discussion about vaginas...what do you expect? ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #116 June 25, 2012 QuoteQuote>Search "not a baby" here on SC Which is why I said "potential child." Again, if we're talking about a tumor the discussion becomes a lot simpler. From previous abortion discussions on here, I think there are a number of people who consider a fetus to be more similar to a tumor than to a "potential child." And, of course, those people also seem to think the abortion issue is pretty simple. ("Don't tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body. Case closed.") I don't believe that it is any of my business how a woman views a fetus. Her business, hers alone. Not anyone else's, including senators, congresspersons, the pope...... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #117 June 25, 2012 QuoteI think a mother would go as far as she can for her baby... Exactly. Her choice.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #118 June 25, 2012 QuoteQuoteFrom previous abortion discussions on here, I think there are a number of people who consider a fetus to be more similar to a tumor than to a "potential child." And, of course, those people also seem to think the abortion issue is pretty simple. ("Don't tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body. Case closed.") I don't believe that it is any of my business how a woman views a fetus. Her business, hers alone. Not anyone else's, including senators, congresspersons, the pope... Do you think a woman should be able to have an abortion at any point in the pregnancy, even a week before the baby is due? Without any reason other than she wants the thing out of her body and doesn't want it to remain alive? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,602 #119 June 25, 2012 QuoteMaybe when it's heart starts beating? So declaring someone brain dead after an accident is wrong then? Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #120 June 25, 2012 >I think there are a number of people who consider a fetus to be more similar to a >tumor than to a "potential child." i think there are people who _wish_ it was more like a tumor. I don't think anyone (well, at least anyone reasonable) denies that the big issue is that that clump of cells will most probably turn into a child. I think even the most extreme pro-choice types understand that that's why it's contentious, even if they don't think that clump of cells has any humanity/rights/special status etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #121 June 25, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteFrom previous abortion discussions on here, I think there are a number of people who consider a fetus to be more similar to a tumor than to a "potential child." And, of course, those people also seem to think the abortion issue is pretty simple. ("Don't tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body. Case closed.") I don't believe that it is any of my business how a woman views a fetus. Her business, hers alone. Not anyone else's, including senators, congresspersons, the pope... Do you think a woman should be able to have an abortion at any point in the pregnancy, even a week before the baby is due? Without any reason other than she wants the thing out of her body and doesn't want it to remain alive? Until she DELIVERS a baby, what is inside her is her business and not mine or society's at large.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #122 June 25, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteFrom previous abortion discussions on here, I think there are a number of people who consider a fetus to be more similar to a tumor than to a "potential child." And, of course, those people also seem to think the abortion issue is pretty simple. ("Don't tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body. Case closed.") I don't believe that it is any of my business how a woman views a fetus. Her business, hers alone. Not anyone else's, including senators, congresspersons, the pope... Do you think a woman should be able to have an abortion at any point in the pregnancy, even a week before the baby is due? Without any reason other than she wants the thing out of her body and doesn't want it to remain alive? Until she DELIVERS a baby, what is inside her is her business and not mine or society's at large. I find it amazing that anyone can see the abortion issue as being that simple. Whether it's this point of view or the opposite (someone who believes abortion should never be allowed). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #123 June 25, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteFrom previous abortion discussions on here, I think there are a number of people who consider a fetus to be more similar to a tumor than to a "potential child." And, of course, those people also seem to think the abortion issue is pretty simple. ("Don't tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body. Case closed.") I don't believe that it is any of my business how a woman views a fetus. Her business, hers alone. Not anyone else's, including senators, congresspersons, the pope... Do you think a woman should be able to have an abortion at any point in the pregnancy, even a week before the baby is due? Without any reason other than she wants the thing out of her body and doesn't want it to remain alive? Until she DELIVERS a baby, what is inside her is her business and not mine or society's at large. I find it amazing that anyone can see the abortion issue as being that simple. Whether it's this point of view or the opposite (someone who believes abortion should never be allowed). Minding one's own business is inherently simple. Unless I'm invited in, I keep out of women's reproductive systems, literally and figuratively.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #124 June 25, 2012 Quotewhat is inside her is her business and not mine or society's at large. Well if a woman ever bites off your penis, I don't wanna hear you bitching. I would also advise against Vietnamese prostitutes...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #125 June 25, 2012 QuoteQuotewhat is inside her is her business and not mine or society's at large. Well if a woman ever bites off your penis, I don't wanna hear you bitching. I would also advise against Vietnamese prostitutes... I suggest you choose your female friends more carefully.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
