kallend 2,117 #26 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe biggest drop was with the bursting of the housing bubble in 2008. So blame the guy in charge then, right? Or you could look at the factors that led to the bust.... Community investment program started by Carter and supercharged by Clinton. How Barney Frank ignored warnings NONSENSE. Unregulated GREED, pure and simple, led to the bust. The fraction of CRA mortgages going bad was way less than the fraction of non CRA mortgages. The CRA didn't cause unregulated financial firms to invent credit default swaps, or cause Moodys, Fitch etc, to give AAA ratings to junk.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #27 June 14, 2012 QuoteThe biggest drop was with the bursting of the housing bubble in 2008. So blame the guy in charge then, right? http://www.reuters.com/...dUSBRE85D0XI20120614 Bush had as much of a chance of preventing it as Obama has of fixing it. Neither controls the purse strings - that's Congress. If Presidential competence is measured by the economy, then Dubya at least had 6 damned good years. I give him ZERO credit for it. Giving him ZERO credit also requires me to give ZERO blame. Same with Obama. It's not his fault the economy sucked when he came in. Similarly, it's not his fault that the economy hasn't responded to his fixes because he doesn't have the power to change it. I merely blame him for saying he CAN fix it. Note that the President is finally starting to get this. "It's not my fault" has been his recent position on the economy. For the last two or three months, "It's not my fault" has been the Obama campaign. "Forward" only lasted a few days. I'm glad to actually see a shred of honesty. Pure honesty would be, "It's not my fault. And it wasn't Bush's, either. I thought the President could make or break the economy. Well, I was wrong. Bush had no more power to ruin the economy than I have to fix it." My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #28 June 14, 2012 QuoteUnregulated GREED, pure and simple, led to the bust. Seems to me that the greed was regulated. Turns out that Federal, State and local governments were pulling in revenues hand over fist. Government never say, "Slow down! We've got too much in revenue here!" I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. I'm not Nostradamus. I'm not an economist. But in April, 2004 I posted this: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1031778#1031778 People saw it coming. Everybody did. But nobody cared because times were good. Governments wanted it, and like governments are wont to do, they figured that any crisis would be in the future for someone else to worry about. If it came sooner than later, then the fingers can be pointed. It'd be nice if you'd look at the WHOLE story, John. It's what I call the "And the Band Played On" syndrome. Randy Shilts wrote a masterpiece that went much further than "Ronald Reagan Spread AIDS." It went much more deeply than "Fags in bathhouses are killing each other." No. Shilts pointed the finger at everybody - including himself. He praised those who made the tough-but-unpopular decisions. He pointed to how the victims victimized themselves and how different governments acted differently in response to their constituencies. There is plenty of blame for EVERYONE with this madness. Okay, John, not you. You didn't refinance your home and take out the equity. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #29 June 14, 2012 QuoteNONSENSE. Unregulated GREED, pure and simple, led to the bust. Yep, and McCain and others tried to regulate it and Frank and others said there was no issue. Again yes, greed at buying more house than you could afford. Greed at using your home as an ATM. Greed at bankers trying to make money. Greed at politicians trying to win votes. Yes, greed ALL around. Not just Republicans. Once you understand that, we may actually get somewhere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #30 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteNONSENSE. Unregulated GREED, pure and simple, led to the bust. Yep, and McCain and others tried to regulate it and Frank and others said there was no issue. Again yes, greed at buying more house than you could afford. Greed at using your home as an ATM. Greed at bankers trying to make money. Greed at politicians trying to win votes. Yes, greed ALL around. Not just Republicans. Once you understand that, we may actually get somewhere. While greed was the root cause, for the bankers it was greed without risk, guaranteed self destruction.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #31 June 14, 2012 >Yep, and McCain and others tried to regulate it and Frank and others said there was no issue. Agreed. (cool to see even republicans seeing government regulations on capitalism as sometimes being a good thing) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #32 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteThe biggest drop was with the bursting of the housing bubble in 2008. So blame the guy in charge then, right? Or you could look at the factors that led to the bust.... Community investment program started by Carter and supercharged by Clinton. How Barney Frank ignored warnings That had nothing to do with it - the extraordinarily low interest rates post 9/11 meant that money was easily available, but easy returns on savings accounts were not. People and institutions changed their behavior to match. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #33 June 14, 2012 Quote>Yep, and McCain and others tried to regulate it and Frank and others said there was no issue. Agreed. (cool to see even republicans seeing government regulations on capitalism as sometimes being a good thing) True capitalism regulates itself. Current regulations restrict businesses with one hand but insulate with the other. Hence the shell game we have now: "We'll take your risk, but you can't do..."And you must do...."Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #34 June 18, 2012 QuoteThat had nothing to do with it - the extraordinarily low interest rates post 9/11 meant that money was easily available, but easy returns on savings accounts were not. People and institutions changed their behavior to match. CRS REQUIRED banks to loan money to people who otherwise could not afford it and allowed people to get loans with no proof of income. You can try to claim that had nothing to do with it, but that does not make it true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #35 June 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteThat had nothing to do with it - the extraordinarily low interest rates post 9/11 meant that money was easily available, but easy returns on savings accounts were not. People and institutions changed their behavior to match. CRS REQUIRED banks to loan money to people who otherwise could not afford it and allowed people to get loans with no proof of income. You can try to claim that had nothing to do with it, but that does not make it true. those loans are a drop in the bucket. It's like blaming the Titanic on the housekeeping guy that ordered 200 count sheets instead of 400. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #36 June 18, 2012 Quotethose loans are a drop in the bucket. Which is it? Nothing to do with it, or now just a little bit? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #37 June 18, 2012 QuoteQuotethose loans are a drop in the bucket. Which is it? Nothing to do with it, or now just a little bit? call it a rounding error. Trying to call it the or a primary cause is political spinsterism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #38 June 19, 2012 Quotecall it a rounding error. Or you just talked out of your ass the first time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #39 June 19, 2012 QuoteQuotecall it a rounding error. Or you just talked out of your ass the first time. Given the total lack of math skills that you have demonstrated in several threads recently, I doubt you have the remotest clue about what kelp is getting at. You should stick to gun threads.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #40 June 19, 2012 QuoteGiven the total lack of math skills that you have demonstrated in several threads recently, I doubt you have the remotest clue about what kelp is getting at. You should stick to gun threads. And you should stay out of gun threads since you have shown not to have the slightest clue about firearms or the 2nd amendment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
