Arizona Immigration Law Revisited

[GQ_jumper 4]

I'm not usually one to start threads nowadays, but I ran across this article and thought it would be interesting to see how opinions have shifted since it was first introduced and then tested in court by everyone from the ACLU to Charlie Chaplan.

It looks like the SCOTUS will soon be rendering their verdict on certain parts of this law which could have a significant impact on how other border states proceed with their future border enforcement.

Personally I have no issues with the law as it was originally written. I was stationed in Arizona for 2 years and could see the border from my house, so I have gotten to live the adventure of being right in the middle of the immigration battles. The city I lived in at one point even engaged the Border Patrol and asked them to scale back enforcement during the lettuce harvest because it created a lack of laborers. Now the specifics of finding individuals to tackle the unwanted jobs our country has to offer is a different discussion altogether, and my personal issues with the situation lie in one's willingness to pay taxes.

I get to spend a significant amount of time traveling the globe and in all my travels I have rarely ever set foot outside of my lodging accommodations without my passport. I understand that any time I am in a foreign country I have to be able to prove that I am there lawfully, so I carry my passport with visa stamp at all times. Any time I have ever had to deal with foreign law enforcement the first thing that happens when I open my mouth and make my American accent apparent is a request for a passport. I have never once taken offense to this or labeled it as profiling.

What I don't understand is why people in the US feel that doing the same thing that every other country in the world does is so offensive or illegal. When I am pulled over I am asked to provide my identity and proof that I am legally allowed to drive I am not offended, even though it is essentially the same as what is being asked by the law. The police run a back ground check every time you are pulled over, but we don't get offended and say we are being profiled as criminals.

I understand that people have picked the law apart and there are different aspects of it that people are fighting in different ways, but the basis for most of the arguments is the same.

Bottom line is, if you are associated with a group that is breaking the law don't take it out on the people that are trying to do what is right and enforce the law. Take your frustrations out on the people that are giving you the bad name, and engage your representatives to do more to rectify the situation. Don't get angry when cop asks for proof that you are here legally, find a way to help solve the problem so the ID check is unnecessary. If the border states weren't suffering increased crime rates due to drug runners and criminals coming across the border this wouldn't be an issue IMO.

http://www.startribune.com/nation/158303405.html

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[RonD1120 62]

"For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know." ~Unknown from the post Vietnam War era.

The liberals in this country have grown out of the protesters of the the 60's. They have been protected to the point where they are infected. They do not like the U.S.A. and they want to reduce its status in the world. They are the domestic enemies of the U.S. Constitution. IMHO

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Quagmirian 40]

I love these threads. I love it when people use the word 'liberals' especially.

[masterrig 1]

I think, we as a nation have gotten so 'politically correct' we are so afraid we might hurt someone's feelings we've lost our backbone. We've lost the respect of other countries. We continue to do nothing about the illegal situation and come-up with the cheapest excuses like, 'It's an election year'! Gimme a break! We have laws... enforce them, plain and simple.


Chuck

[Andy9o8 3]

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I love these threads. I love it when people use the word 'liberals' especially.

And they do it liberally. Mainly trying to create an itch in the hopes that others will take the bait and scratch.

[Andy9o8 3]

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they are infected. They do not like the U.S.A. and they want to reduce its status in the world. They are the domestic enemies

Gaaaaah!!!

[Gravitymaster 0]

I love these threads. Especially when liberals try and deny what they are. Hopefully one will make me laugh even harder by calling themselves a "progressive".

Perhaps a large bucket of calamine lotion would help.

[Zep 0]

May be I'm simple but correct me if I'm wrong.

You rob a bank, you go to jail
You murder someone, you go to jail
You enter a country illegally, you get thrown out

Like me, simple.

Gone fishing

[Gravitymaster 0]

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May be I'm simple but correct me if I'm wrong.

You rob a bank, you go to jail

Not if your mother didn't breast feed you.

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You murder someone, you go to jail

Not if they dissed you or said something to you that wasn't politically correct.

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You enter a country illegally, you get thrown out

Not as long as you are willing to do jobs Americans won't do or if you were discovered due to racial profiling.

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Like me, simple.

Not so simple.

[firemedic 7]

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Quote

May be I'm simple but correct me if I'm wrong.

You rob a bank, you go to jail

Not if your mother didn't breast feed you.

Quote

You murder someone, you go to jail

Not if they dissed you or said something to you that wasn't politically correct.

Quote

You enter a country illegally, you get thrown out

Not as long as you are willing to do jobs Americans won't do or if you were discovered due to racial profiling.

Quote

Like me, simple.

Not so simple.

I agree with all the above. It's Very Progressive

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

May be I'm simple but correct me if I'm wrong.

You rob a bank, you go to jail

Not if your mother didn't breast feed you.

Quote

You murder someone, you go to jail

Not if they dissed you or said something to you that wasn't politically correct.

Quote

You enter a country illegally, you get thrown out

Not as long as you are willing to do jobs Americans won't do or if you were discovered due to racial profiling.

Quote

Like me, simple.

Not so simple.

I agree with all the above. It's Very Progressive

The big question is.....what are we progressing towards? I think all clear-headed people know the answer to that.

[firemedic 7]

The big question is.....what are we progressing towards? I think all clear-headed people know the answer to that.

This is the million dollar question isn't it?

[GeorgiaDon 385]

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"For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know." ~Unknown from the post Vietnam War era.

The liberals in this country have grown out of the protesters of the the 60's. They have been protected to the point where they are infected. They do not like the U.S.A. and they want to reduce its status in the world. They are the domestic enemies of the U.S. Constitution. IMHO

By any reasonable measure Jesus was a liberal; indeed He was clearly a communist, as he urged the rich to give away all their possessions, and urged us all to work every day to help the less fortunate.

It seems odd to me that a person who claims to be a Christian, and who holds all who differ in such contempt, would desire an America that would exclude Jesus Christ and all who practice so much of the actual message He preached.

Really, Ron, you'd better hope that come your judgement day you're not held to account for the deep hatred you so lovingly nurture in your soul.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[quade 4]

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You enter a country illegally, you get thrown out

I think few people, myself included, have an issue with that, but unfortunately the bigger issues aren't that simple.

People like to yammer about whether or not President Obama is a "natural born citizen," but a lot of people also don't like the concept of "anchor babies." Well, guess what an "anchor baby" is? So, yes that "anchor baby" is a "natural born citizen" and entitled to live in this country and according to the rules, so is his mother and father regardless of their immigration status.

Another issue is stopping people to ask for "papers" to prove immigration status. I think that's ridiculous in a country that is made of immigrants from hundreds of different countries around the world and it's especially stupid in parts of the country that used to belong to Mexico. Seriously? You're going to stop a person who can trace their parentage in a piece of land to a time before the US even existed and ask him his immigration status just because he might look like current illegal immigrants? Try pulling that crap with a member of the DAR and seeing what kind of an earful you end up with.

The problem is, immigration in the US is complex and always has been. Businesses are complicit when it's convenient and the service industry would collapse without their help.

How do you intend to address that?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

I think it is a matter of degree. How responsible for out actions should we be?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[dks13827 3]

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"For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know." ~Unknown from the post Vietnam War era.

The liberals in this country have grown out of the protesters of the the 60's. They have been protected to the point where they are infected. They do not like the U.S.A. and they want to reduce its status in the world. They are the domestic enemies of the U.S. Constitution. IMHO

Yes. totally correct.
Also remember that the AZ law just mimics the Federal law that exists. Phoenix, AZ

[Andy9o8 3]

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"For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know." ~Unknown from the post Vietnam War era.

The liberals in this country have grown out of the protesters of the the 60's. They have been protected to the point where they are infected. They do not like the U.S.A. and they want to reduce its status in the world. They are the domestic enemies of the U.S. Constitution. IMHO

Anyone who thinks that a single bullet fired or a single casualty suffered in Vietnam or Iraq resulted in preserving or protecting American freedom is a fool.

The Conservatives in this country, once a label for those fat and bloated by wealth, or culturally demented by generations of institutionalized racism, have grown out of the Klansmen and John Birchers of the 50's and 60's. They were enticed by Goldwater, co-opted by Nixon and manipulated like chess pieces by Reagan, and they were first in line when called upon by the draft-dodging Bush and Cheney to gullibly swallow the toxin of the Patriot Act like pablum, and sacrifice their children to foreign wars that did not buy the American people a single extra day of security in their homes and beds. Between 2001 and 2008 they SUCCEEDED in reducing the US's status in the world. They are the domestic enemies of the U.S. Constitution.

[quade 4]

Andy, I feel for you. You're in for a shit storm over that post whether it's true or not.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andy9o8 3]

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Andy, I feel for you. You're in for a shit storm over that post whether it's true or not.

http://fishingelmo.blog.ocn.ne.jp/photos/uncategorized/2012/05/17/dirtyharrygoaheadmakedaymovieposter.jpg

[rushmc 23]

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Andy, I feel for you. You're in for a shit storm over that post whether it's true or not.

For your post to be true, one has to think what he says means something

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

Yep, it was the redneck racist southern democrats that formed the KKK. It was also the Republican President, Lincoln, who fought a war against these southern fat assed rednecks who tried to succeed due to their desire to continue slavery.

In addition, 80% of Southern Republicans voted to approve the Civil Rights Act of 1964 compared to approx 60% of Democrats in the House and the final version in the Senate had similar numbers.

Let's not forget George Wallace-Democrat, who was vigorously opposed to segregation. Robert Byrd-Democrat and a Grand Wizard in the KKK. Howard W. Smith-Democrat, House Rules Committee Chairman, opposed to the Bill and refused to allow it to the Floor.

Here's how it went down:

http://www.congresslink.org/civilrights/1964.htm

And who can forget the 83 day filibuster conducted by the Democrat Party to oppose segregation?

Of the 26 Civil Rights Legislation since 1933, Republicans have supported them 96% of the time and Democrats have opposed then 80% of the time.

Cry me a river......

[quade 4]

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Andy, I feel for you. You're in for a shit storm over that post whether it's true or not.

For your post to be true, one has to think what he says means something

No. What I have to believe is there exists an extremely vocal set of people who react in knee-jerk fashion to any critism of certain "sacred" institutions.

Whether the institution is even sacred or not isn't the issue. It's the wisdom of going into a Hells Angels biker bars and shouting at the top of your lungs, "Hey! All you pussy bikers suck."

Generally it ends badly.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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Of the 26 Civil Rights Legislation since 1933, Republicans have supported them 96% of the time and Democrats have opposed then 80% of the time.

which might mean something were it not for the fact that most of those "Democrats" changed affiliation to become the Republicans of today.

Claiming to be part of Lincoln's Republican party is a bit of an insult to reality.

[Andy9o8 3]

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Of the 26 Civil Rights Legislation since 1933, Republicans have supported them 96% of the time and Democrats have opposed then 80% of the time.

which might mean something were it not for the fact that most of those "Democrats" changed affiliation to become the Republicans of today. .

Ding! I've posted exactly that, in considerable detail, several times in SC. But once again: the racist, socially-conservative "Dixiecrats" of old, which Strom Thurmond tried and failed to break-off from the party, and which was in open civil warfare with the liberal wing of the party (mainly over civil rights), became part of the "Southern Strategy" that got Nixon elected. How'd that work out for the country? They then completed their shift to the GOP when Reagan was elected in '80, and now comprise the Southern segment of the modern GOP. So the rest of you can bite me.

[quade 4]

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Of the 26 Civil Rights Legislation since 1933, Republicans have supported them 96% of the time and Democrats have opposed then 80% of the time.

which might mean something were it not for the fact that most of those "Democrats" changed affiliation to become the Republicans of today.

Claiming to be part of Lincoln's Republican party is a bit of an insult to reality.

Hey, did you know the founding fathers were all really subjects of King George?

I find it hilarious when current Republicans claim Lincoln as one of their own as if the philosophy of the party hasn't changed wildly since that time. The same idea also makes me giggle about Reagan, somebody who would be thrown out of today's Republican party.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver