rushmc 23 #51 June 11, 2012 QuoteQuotei do not need you or a government hack telling me who to serve in my own business, unless I take fed dollars if your business can't survive without fed dollars, then it's a parasite - so we can simplify this even further frankly, the photographers are idiots to decline any business in this economy - there's business that should be the option to decline at the business discretion (porn, mutliation, 'bad' art, etc etc etc), but an innocent partnership ceremony seems pretty lame to decline the $$ for I agree with you post The issue is where the government or courts should be allowed to step in I do not think this is a place for that kind of fed or court interventions"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #52 June 11, 2012 QuoteQuotei do not need you or a government hack telling me who to serve in my own business, unless I take fed dollars if your business can't survive without fed dollars, then it's a parasite - so we can simplify this even further frankly, the photographers are idiots to decline any business in this economy - there's business that should be the option to decline at the business discretion (porn, mutliation, 'bad' art, etc etc etc), but an innocent partnership ceremony seems pretty lame to decline the $$ for BTW, are Dr.’s that take Medicare patients parasites?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #53 June 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotei do not need you or a government hack telling me who to serve in my own business, unless I take fed dollars if your business can't survive without fed dollars, then it's a parasite - so we can simplify this even further frankly, the photographers are idiots to decline any business in this economy - there's business that should be the option to decline at the business discretion (porn, mutliation, 'bad' art, etc etc etc), but an innocent partnership ceremony seems pretty lame to decline the $$ for I agree with you post The issue is where the government or courts should be allowed to step in I do not think this is a place for that kind of fed or court interventions Personally, I do think such govt intervention is entirely called-for with respect to essential accommodations: food, lodging, transportation, medicine, etc. Non-essential businesses, like photography, are a lot more of a grey area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #54 June 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotei do not need you or a government hack telling me who to serve in my own business, unless I take fed dollars if your business can't survive without fed dollars, then it's a parasite - so we can simplify this even further frankly, the photographers are idiots to decline any business in this economy - there's business that should be the option to decline at the business discretion (porn, mutliation, 'bad' art, etc etc etc), but an innocent partnership ceremony seems pretty lame to decline the $$ for I agree with you post The issue is where the government or courts should be allowed to step in I do not think this is a place for that kind of fed or court interventions Personally, I do think such govt intervention is entirely called-for with respect to essential accommodations: food, lodging, transportation, medicine, etc. Non-essential businesses, like photography, I'm not so sure. I think we can agree here Edited to add This would turn the debate more toward what an essential service is and what is not If the photographer took pictures for State and fed ID's and passports the debate would be different than for weddings and gratuations"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #55 June 11, 2012 QuoteEdited to add This would turn the debate more toward what an essential service is and what is not If the photographer took pictures for State and fed ID's and passports the debate would be different than for weddings and gratuations Agree w/your edit - I was going to get into that, but decided not to in interest of brevity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #56 June 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteEdited to add This would turn the debate more toward what an essential service is and what is not If the photographer took pictures for State and fed ID's and passports the debate would be different than for weddings and gratuations Agree w/your edit - I was going to get into that, but decided not to in interest of brevity. Kind of scary that we may agree on something"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #57 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteIf the photographer believed the gay couple would disturb his customers, I believe he should have the right to protect his business. ..... but aren't the gay couple the customers? Many Christian businesses are established to serve Christians. Christian Yellow Pages are published and marketed through churches and other Christian organizations for the purpose of maintaining trusted relationships. Some Christians will not do business with someone who advertises as such and then does work or perform services in the secular world. Right or wrong is not the issue. It is a fact of life. Therefore, the Christian photographer should have the right to decline the gay couple's offer. IMOLook for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #58 June 14, 2012 QuoteMany Christian businesses are established to serve Christians. Christian Yellow Pages are published and marketed through churches and other Christian organizations for the purpose of maintaining trusted relationships. I was curious in this story if the photographers had made a point to advertise themselves as a Christian business or not, but I couldn't find any information about that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #59 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteMany Christian businesses are established to serve Christians. Christian Yellow Pages are published and marketed through churches and other Christian organizations for the purpose of maintaining trusted relationships. I was curious in this story if the photographers had made a point to advertise themselves as a Christian business or not, but I couldn't find any information about that. Actually, I found this copy of the "Decision and Final Order." http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/btb/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/elane.pdf Doesn't sound like the photographers in any way advertised themselves as a Christian business. It sounds like they used mainstream advertising, and it doesn't sound like they made any reference to their religious beliefs through their advertising or correspondence with potential customers. Not that it would probably matter in a discrimination case. But if they were clearly and openly a Christian business, I would think the same-sex couple was being a little obnoxious. However, it doesn't sound like that was the case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #60 June 14, 2012 Quote Some Christians will not do business with someone who advertises as such and then does work or perform services in the secular world. Right or wrong is not the issue. It is a fact of life. Therefore, the Christian photographer should have the right to decline the gay couple's offer. Right or wrong is exactly the issue... And you showed in the last line that you think it's okay. But judging from your previous posts on the persecution of Christians, you'd be the first to have a fit when non-believers start refusing service to Christians based on their faith. In one breath you'll say that people need to be more tolerant of peoples live decisions, and yet in the same breath go ahead and say you support Christians being intolerant enough to refuse service to people who share different views. That seems the Christian way, everyone must be tolerant, unless they are not living according to Christian ideals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #61 June 14, 2012 Quote Quote Some Christians will not do business with someone who advertises as such and then does work or perform services in the secular world. Right or wrong is not the issue. It is a fact of life. Therefore, the Christian photographer should have the right to decline the gay couple's offer. Right or wrong is exactly the issue... And you showed in the last line that you think it's okay. But judging from your previous posts on the persecution of Christians, you'd be the first to have a fit when non-believers start refusing service to Christians based on their faith. In one breath you'll say that people need to be more tolerant of peoples live decisions, and yet in the same breath go ahead and say you support Christians being intolerant enough to refuse service to people who share different views. That seems the Christian way, everyone must be tolerant, unless they are not living according to Christian ideals. You missed the point that this photographer is not providing an essential service. Hypothetical example, if I owned an advertised Christian lawn cutting business and a gay couple asked me to cut their lawn. I can say yes and use the opportunity to witness to them and justify my choice to my brothers and sisters as evangelism. I can say yes and possibly face retribution and maybe loss of future income from my brothers and sisters. Or, I can say no and avoid the issue altogether. It seems the major fault of the Christian photographer was the way he said no. Now that I am an enlightened Christian lawn cutter I would say, my schedule is full and I won't be able to get to you until December.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #62 June 14, 2012 It's not unprecedented. I think there was a discussion in here a few years ago about The Garden Guy north of Houston. The big difference is that apparently The Garden Guy made it quite clear in his advertising at that time that they are against gay marriage (article linked above). That's not true any more, so it could be that they've changed their stance on doing business with gay clients. Or it could be that they're just busy all the time, and willing to lie to clients they don't want to do business with. Being up front with your beliefs even if it might cost you is called taking responsibility. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #63 June 14, 2012 QuoteYou missed the point that this photographer is not providing an essential service. Surely either it's okay to pick your business based on people's beliefs or it isn't. Now you're saying it's only okay when you deem the business a non-essential service? I assure you that many people put organizing a wedding as planned pretty high up on their essentials. It's either right or wrong to discriminate, the business should be irrelevant. QuoteI can say yes and use the opportunity to witness to them and justify my choice to my brothers and sisters as evangelism. Which while I would get extremely annoyed if I were at the receiving end, is the right Christian response. Jesus would be rather distraught if he heard of people neglecting others because of their beliefs and treating others unlike they would want to be treated. But I am a bit bothered by the line of needing to justify your actions to your 'brothers and sisters'. See... This is one huge fault in religion. Any environment where you feel the need to justify yourself to others who may not agree with your behaviour is where it is not a personal relationship between you and God. That is a cult. Christianity, if practised properly would not have people that you would need to justify anything to. It is far more Christian for you to have gay friends, non-believers etc Than it is for you to neglect them based on their beliefs. In the bible it states quite clearly that you should not judge others and that it's God's duty. Yet the religious often seem to overlook that clear word of God and instead spend their life trying to change others lives. As a Christian you must tell others of the word of God, and share your experience, if someone bites - good for you. If they do not, the Christian thing to do is accept their choice and not treat them differently for it. I wouldn't want a client base of people who are bigots calling themselves Christians while not living in the way that is promoted in the bible. Those are not brothers and sisters in Christ, they are merely cult members who happen to follow the same belief. For the many years I went to church I noticed that hypocrisy too. Go directly against what Jesus teaches because someone else in the church may tell one of the elders and they may all look down on you. Sounds more like a high school clique to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #64 June 14, 2012 Apparently you've never been married, had kids and faced a mortgage payment every month.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #65 June 14, 2012 QuoteApparently you've never been married, had kids and faced a mortgage payment every month. Nope, I make sure to only put myself in positions that I know I will be able to afford. But I do have bills to pay just like everyone else and if anything, this incident would just make me realize that maybe I've got the wrong client base, people who would be willing to stop supporting me because I am not as judgemental as them. Completely un-Christian. And if Christian weddings are their niche, they should state so. Because I assure you most people getting married in a straight wedding that aren't religious don't care about whether the photographer shot a gay wedding. One would need to be a really bad photographer for them to be already established and have their career ruined by taking pictures at a gay wedding. Also, from the sounds of it this was done because they disagreed with the practice, not because they were scared that their other clients may hear of it. One doesn't exactly have a settled client base for wedding photography either, it's usually a once off and then your business comes from people seeing the quality of your images, not what type of people you work with. If anything this thread has made it clear once more how lucky I was to get out of the church. People wanting to treat me differently because I am less bigoted than them. If there were a God, I wouldn't be surprised if he just lets everyone get a free pass after the way Jesus's teachings have been butchered and with the representatives of Christ being something that any true Christian would be ashamed of. Stop supporting your brothers and sisters because they show hospitality to those who differ. Refusing to help/give service to people who don't believe in the same things. It would appear as though they all need to spend more time trying to remove the plank from their own eyes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #66 June 14, 2012 Quote It would appear as though they all need to spend more time trying to remove the plank from their own eyes. You are correct. We have a lot of problems in our ranks. The Christian world is not perfect to be sure. We are all not robots as you would like to make us out to be. We fuss with each other all the time. But, in the end we all know Whose we are and where we will spend eternity. As the old saying goes, we are not perfect, just forgiven. And don't forget Jesus got angry and drove the local businesses out of the temple area. We can and do make choices. Your kind and my kind. If you needed your grass cut and you had the choice between a Christian and a secular business how would you make the choice?Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meso 38 #67 June 14, 2012 QuoteAs the old saying goes, we are not perfect, just forgiven. And as one of the better biblical sayings go. Quote"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." QuoteIf you needed your grass cut and you had the choice between a Christian and a secular business how would you make the choice? By whoever has the best job history, outside of that - whoever needs it more in their life, followed by whoever is the nicest, friendliest person. Something that is not dictated by their religious beliefs. But I can say that their religious beliefs would be far far far down on the list of things I'd care about when hiring them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #68 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuote And don't forget Jesus got angry and drove the local businesses out of the temple area. Jesus said lots of things that the "Christian right" now ignores.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 62 #69 June 14, 2012 So you hire a lawn care professional that has the best job history, best price and is available. He performs the service and gives you a Christian tract with your receipt. Would you hire him again?Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 62 #70 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote And don't forget Jesus got angry and drove the local businesses out of the temple area. Jesus said lots of things that the "Christian right" now ignores. The point was that Jesus showed bias and prejudice toward some types of business. He also partied with sinners. Business is business, leisure is leisure, how do you choose the right path for youLook for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,150 #71 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote And don't forget Jesus got angry and drove the local businesses out of the temple area. Jesus said lots of things that the "Christian right" now ignores. The point was that Jesus showed bias and prejudice toward some types of business. He also partied with sinners. Business is business, leisure is leisure, how do you choose the right path for you Jesus was a long haired liberal hippie who despised the rich and told people to pay their taxes.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 380 #72 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf the photographer believed the gay couple would disturb his customers, I believe he should have the right to protect his business. ..... but aren't the gay couple the customers? Many Christian businesses are established to serve Christians. Christian Yellow Pages are published and marketed through churches and other Christian organizations for the purpose of maintaining trusted relationships. Some Christians will not do business with someone who advertises as such and then does work or perform services in the secular world. Right or wrong is not the issue. It is a fact of life. Therefore, the Christian photographer should have the right to decline the gay couple's offer. IMOUnfortunately I have to agree this often seems to be a matter of fact, at least around here (Georgia, USA). This was brought home to me several years ago, when a woman who worked with my wife was getting married. My wife recommended a friend of hers who has a small business baking cakes, especially wedding cakes (which are really good). The co-worker thanked my wife for the suggestion, but told her there was a woman from her church who baked cakes, and it would cause "problems" for her if she passed over the person from her church to do business with an "outsider", even though the cakes weren't actually all that good. That's when I realized joining a church was a business decision; belonging to a large church immediately gave you a large client base, whereas belonging to a small church was much worse for business, and having no church at all was possibly disastrous. I wouldn't say your small business can't survive if you don't belong to a church, but for sure a big church (big in terms of members) is a significant leg up. Anyone who thinks that in the Bible Belt the only consideration when choosing a church is theology and whether or not you like the priest/minister is missing a big part of the picture. Even if you are a closet atheist, you could look at Sunday morning (and Wednesday evening for Baptists) as necessary advertising. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 380 #73 June 14, 2012 QuoteSo you hire a lawn care professional that has the best job history, best price and is available. He performs the service and gives you a Christian tract with your receipt. Would you hire him again?Did he do a good job? Did he show up when he said he would, and charge what he said he would? If so, sure I'd hire him again. I might politely decline the tract, or I might accept it (if I sense he'd be offended if I refused it) and then recycle it or something. On the other hand, if he did a poor job, would I hire him again because he's a Christian? No. But I'm sure some would. Again, church = business. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 62 #74 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIf the photographer believed the gay couple would disturb his customers, I believe he should have the right to protect his business. ..... but aren't the gay couple the customers? Many Christian businesses are established to serve Christians. Christian Yellow Pages are published and marketed through churches and other Christian organizations for the purpose of maintaining trusted relationships. Some Christians will not do business with someone who advertises as such and then does work or perform services in the secular world. Right or wrong is not the issue. It is a fact of life. Therefore, the Christian photographer should have the right to decline the gay couple's offer. IMOUnfortunately I have to agree this often seems to be a matter of fact, at least around here (Georgia, USA). This was brought home to me several years ago, when a woman who worked with my wife was getting married. My wife recommended a friend of hers who has a small business baking cakes, especially wedding cakes (which are really good). The co-worker thanked my wife for the suggestion, but told her there was a woman from her church who baked cakes, and it would cause "problems" for her if she passed over the person from her church to do business with an "outsider", even though the cakes weren't actually all that good. That's when I realized joining a church was a business decision; belonging to a large church immediately gave you a large client base, whereas belonging to a small church was much worse for business, and having no church at all was possibly disastrous. I wouldn't say your small business can't survive if you don't belong to a church, but for sure a big church (big in terms of members) is a significant leg up. Anyone who thinks that in the Bible Belt the only consideration when choosing a church is theology and whether or not you like the priest/minister is missing a big part of the picture. Even if you are a closet atheist, you could look at Sunday morning (and Wednesday evening for Baptists) as necessary advertising. Don Can I get an AMEN!Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bolas 5 #75 June 14, 2012 Quote I assure you that if a black owner of a large corporation started refusing to provide services to whites, there would be a full on race war ignited. Especially if it was in an area that people are using daily. I don't think any private business that chose not to do business with straight white people would cause a race war. There are already tons of businesses and orgs that state right in their name they don't represent them. The only backlash I could see would be if they were getting government funding or had government contracts, but that wouldn't be a riot. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
RonD1120 62 #69 June 14, 2012 So you hire a lawn care professional that has the best job history, best price and is available. He performs the service and gives you a Christian tract with your receipt. Would you hire him again?Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #70 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote And don't forget Jesus got angry and drove the local businesses out of the temple area. Jesus said lots of things that the "Christian right" now ignores. The point was that Jesus showed bias and prejudice toward some types of business. He also partied with sinners. Business is business, leisure is leisure, how do you choose the right path for youLook for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,150 #71 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote And don't forget Jesus got angry and drove the local businesses out of the temple area. Jesus said lots of things that the "Christian right" now ignores. The point was that Jesus showed bias and prejudice toward some types of business. He also partied with sinners. Business is business, leisure is leisure, how do you choose the right path for you Jesus was a long haired liberal hippie who despised the rich and told people to pay their taxes.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 380 #72 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf the photographer believed the gay couple would disturb his customers, I believe he should have the right to protect his business. ..... but aren't the gay couple the customers? Many Christian businesses are established to serve Christians. Christian Yellow Pages are published and marketed through churches and other Christian organizations for the purpose of maintaining trusted relationships. Some Christians will not do business with someone who advertises as such and then does work or perform services in the secular world. Right or wrong is not the issue. It is a fact of life. Therefore, the Christian photographer should have the right to decline the gay couple's offer. IMOUnfortunately I have to agree this often seems to be a matter of fact, at least around here (Georgia, USA). This was brought home to me several years ago, when a woman who worked with my wife was getting married. My wife recommended a friend of hers who has a small business baking cakes, especially wedding cakes (which are really good). The co-worker thanked my wife for the suggestion, but told her there was a woman from her church who baked cakes, and it would cause "problems" for her if she passed over the person from her church to do business with an "outsider", even though the cakes weren't actually all that good. That's when I realized joining a church was a business decision; belonging to a large church immediately gave you a large client base, whereas belonging to a small church was much worse for business, and having no church at all was possibly disastrous. I wouldn't say your small business can't survive if you don't belong to a church, but for sure a big church (big in terms of members) is a significant leg up. Anyone who thinks that in the Bible Belt the only consideration when choosing a church is theology and whether or not you like the priest/minister is missing a big part of the picture. Even if you are a closet atheist, you could look at Sunday morning (and Wednesday evening for Baptists) as necessary advertising. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 380 #73 June 14, 2012 QuoteSo you hire a lawn care professional that has the best job history, best price and is available. He performs the service and gives you a Christian tract with your receipt. Would you hire him again?Did he do a good job? Did he show up when he said he would, and charge what he said he would? If so, sure I'd hire him again. I might politely decline the tract, or I might accept it (if I sense he'd be offended if I refused it) and then recycle it or something. On the other hand, if he did a poor job, would I hire him again because he's a Christian? No. But I'm sure some would. Again, church = business. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 62 #74 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIf the photographer believed the gay couple would disturb his customers, I believe he should have the right to protect his business. ..... but aren't the gay couple the customers? Many Christian businesses are established to serve Christians. Christian Yellow Pages are published and marketed through churches and other Christian organizations for the purpose of maintaining trusted relationships. Some Christians will not do business with someone who advertises as such and then does work or perform services in the secular world. Right or wrong is not the issue. It is a fact of life. Therefore, the Christian photographer should have the right to decline the gay couple's offer. IMOUnfortunately I have to agree this often seems to be a matter of fact, at least around here (Georgia, USA). This was brought home to me several years ago, when a woman who worked with my wife was getting married. My wife recommended a friend of hers who has a small business baking cakes, especially wedding cakes (which are really good). The co-worker thanked my wife for the suggestion, but told her there was a woman from her church who baked cakes, and it would cause "problems" for her if she passed over the person from her church to do business with an "outsider", even though the cakes weren't actually all that good. That's when I realized joining a church was a business decision; belonging to a large church immediately gave you a large client base, whereas belonging to a small church was much worse for business, and having no church at all was possibly disastrous. I wouldn't say your small business can't survive if you don't belong to a church, but for sure a big church (big in terms of members) is a significant leg up. Anyone who thinks that in the Bible Belt the only consideration when choosing a church is theology and whether or not you like the priest/minister is missing a big part of the picture. Even if you are a closet atheist, you could look at Sunday morning (and Wednesday evening for Baptists) as necessary advertising. Don Can I get an AMEN!Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bolas 5 #75 June 14, 2012 Quote I assure you that if a black owner of a large corporation started refusing to provide services to whites, there would be a full on race war ignited. Especially if it was in an area that people are using daily. I don't think any private business that chose not to do business with straight white people would cause a race war. There are already tons of businesses and orgs that state right in their name they don't represent them. The only backlash I could see would be if they were getting government funding or had government contracts, but that wouldn't be a riot. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kallend 2,150 #71 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote And don't forget Jesus got angry and drove the local businesses out of the temple area. Jesus said lots of things that the "Christian right" now ignores. The point was that Jesus showed bias and prejudice toward some types of business. He also partied with sinners. Business is business, leisure is leisure, how do you choose the right path for you Jesus was a long haired liberal hippie who despised the rich and told people to pay their taxes.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 380 #72 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf the photographer believed the gay couple would disturb his customers, I believe he should have the right to protect his business. ..... but aren't the gay couple the customers? Many Christian businesses are established to serve Christians. Christian Yellow Pages are published and marketed through churches and other Christian organizations for the purpose of maintaining trusted relationships. Some Christians will not do business with someone who advertises as such and then does work or perform services in the secular world. Right or wrong is not the issue. It is a fact of life. Therefore, the Christian photographer should have the right to decline the gay couple's offer. IMOUnfortunately I have to agree this often seems to be a matter of fact, at least around here (Georgia, USA). This was brought home to me several years ago, when a woman who worked with my wife was getting married. My wife recommended a friend of hers who has a small business baking cakes, especially wedding cakes (which are really good). The co-worker thanked my wife for the suggestion, but told her there was a woman from her church who baked cakes, and it would cause "problems" for her if she passed over the person from her church to do business with an "outsider", even though the cakes weren't actually all that good. That's when I realized joining a church was a business decision; belonging to a large church immediately gave you a large client base, whereas belonging to a small church was much worse for business, and having no church at all was possibly disastrous. I wouldn't say your small business can't survive if you don't belong to a church, but for sure a big church (big in terms of members) is a significant leg up. Anyone who thinks that in the Bible Belt the only consideration when choosing a church is theology and whether or not you like the priest/minister is missing a big part of the picture. Even if you are a closet atheist, you could look at Sunday morning (and Wednesday evening for Baptists) as necessary advertising. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeorgiaDon 380 #73 June 14, 2012 QuoteSo you hire a lawn care professional that has the best job history, best price and is available. He performs the service and gives you a Christian tract with your receipt. Would you hire him again?Did he do a good job? Did he show up when he said he would, and charge what he said he would? If so, sure I'd hire him again. I might politely decline the tract, or I might accept it (if I sense he'd be offended if I refused it) and then recycle it or something. On the other hand, if he did a poor job, would I hire him again because he's a Christian? No. But I'm sure some would. Again, church = business. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RonD1120 62 #74 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIf the photographer believed the gay couple would disturb his customers, I believe he should have the right to protect his business. ..... but aren't the gay couple the customers? Many Christian businesses are established to serve Christians. Christian Yellow Pages are published and marketed through churches and other Christian organizations for the purpose of maintaining trusted relationships. Some Christians will not do business with someone who advertises as such and then does work or perform services in the secular world. Right or wrong is not the issue. It is a fact of life. Therefore, the Christian photographer should have the right to decline the gay couple's offer. IMOUnfortunately I have to agree this often seems to be a matter of fact, at least around here (Georgia, USA). This was brought home to me several years ago, when a woman who worked with my wife was getting married. My wife recommended a friend of hers who has a small business baking cakes, especially wedding cakes (which are really good). The co-worker thanked my wife for the suggestion, but told her there was a woman from her church who baked cakes, and it would cause "problems" for her if she passed over the person from her church to do business with an "outsider", even though the cakes weren't actually all that good. That's when I realized joining a church was a business decision; belonging to a large church immediately gave you a large client base, whereas belonging to a small church was much worse for business, and having no church at all was possibly disastrous. I wouldn't say your small business can't survive if you don't belong to a church, but for sure a big church (big in terms of members) is a significant leg up. Anyone who thinks that in the Bible Belt the only consideration when choosing a church is theology and whether or not you like the priest/minister is missing a big part of the picture. Even if you are a closet atheist, you could look at Sunday morning (and Wednesday evening for Baptists) as necessary advertising. Don Can I get an AMEN!Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bolas 5 #75 June 14, 2012 Quote I assure you that if a black owner of a large corporation started refusing to provide services to whites, there would be a full on race war ignited. Especially if it was in an area that people are using daily. I don't think any private business that chose not to do business with straight white people would cause a race war. There are already tons of businesses and orgs that state right in their name they don't represent them. The only backlash I could see would be if they were getting government funding or had government contracts, but that wouldn't be a riot. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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GeorgiaDon 380 #72 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf the photographer believed the gay couple would disturb his customers, I believe he should have the right to protect his business. ..... but aren't the gay couple the customers? Many Christian businesses are established to serve Christians. Christian Yellow Pages are published and marketed through churches and other Christian organizations for the purpose of maintaining trusted relationships. Some Christians will not do business with someone who advertises as such and then does work or perform services in the secular world. Right or wrong is not the issue. It is a fact of life. Therefore, the Christian photographer should have the right to decline the gay couple's offer. IMOUnfortunately I have to agree this often seems to be a matter of fact, at least around here (Georgia, USA). This was brought home to me several years ago, when a woman who worked with my wife was getting married. My wife recommended a friend of hers who has a small business baking cakes, especially wedding cakes (which are really good). The co-worker thanked my wife for the suggestion, but told her there was a woman from her church who baked cakes, and it would cause "problems" for her if she passed over the person from her church to do business with an "outsider", even though the cakes weren't actually all that good. That's when I realized joining a church was a business decision; belonging to a large church immediately gave you a large client base, whereas belonging to a small church was much worse for business, and having no church at all was possibly disastrous. I wouldn't say your small business can't survive if you don't belong to a church, but for sure a big church (big in terms of members) is a significant leg up. Anyone who thinks that in the Bible Belt the only consideration when choosing a church is theology and whether or not you like the priest/minister is missing a big part of the picture. Even if you are a closet atheist, you could look at Sunday morning (and Wednesday evening for Baptists) as necessary advertising. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 380 #73 June 14, 2012 QuoteSo you hire a lawn care professional that has the best job history, best price and is available. He performs the service and gives you a Christian tract with your receipt. Would you hire him again?Did he do a good job? Did he show up when he said he would, and charge what he said he would? If so, sure I'd hire him again. I might politely decline the tract, or I might accept it (if I sense he'd be offended if I refused it) and then recycle it or something. On the other hand, if he did a poor job, would I hire him again because he's a Christian? No. But I'm sure some would. Again, church = business. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #74 June 14, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIf the photographer believed the gay couple would disturb his customers, I believe he should have the right to protect his business. ..... but aren't the gay couple the customers? Many Christian businesses are established to serve Christians. Christian Yellow Pages are published and marketed through churches and other Christian organizations for the purpose of maintaining trusted relationships. Some Christians will not do business with someone who advertises as such and then does work or perform services in the secular world. Right or wrong is not the issue. It is a fact of life. Therefore, the Christian photographer should have the right to decline the gay couple's offer. IMOUnfortunately I have to agree this often seems to be a matter of fact, at least around here (Georgia, USA). This was brought home to me several years ago, when a woman who worked with my wife was getting married. My wife recommended a friend of hers who has a small business baking cakes, especially wedding cakes (which are really good). The co-worker thanked my wife for the suggestion, but told her there was a woman from her church who baked cakes, and it would cause "problems" for her if she passed over the person from her church to do business with an "outsider", even though the cakes weren't actually all that good. That's when I realized joining a church was a business decision; belonging to a large church immediately gave you a large client base, whereas belonging to a small church was much worse for business, and having no church at all was possibly disastrous. I wouldn't say your small business can't survive if you don't belong to a church, but for sure a big church (big in terms of members) is a significant leg up. Anyone who thinks that in the Bible Belt the only consideration when choosing a church is theology and whether or not you like the priest/minister is missing a big part of the picture. Even if you are a closet atheist, you could look at Sunday morning (and Wednesday evening for Baptists) as necessary advertising. Don Can I get an AMEN!Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #75 June 14, 2012 Quote I assure you that if a black owner of a large corporation started refusing to provide services to whites, there would be a full on race war ignited. Especially if it was in an area that people are using daily. I don't think any private business that chose not to do business with straight white people would cause a race war. There are already tons of businesses and orgs that state right in their name they don't represent them. The only backlash I could see would be if they were getting government funding or had government contracts, but that wouldn't be a riot. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
