Most Christians accept evolution

[normiss 891]

I think that was his point.

[RonD1120 62]

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Ah, but what would make you change your beliefs?

Nothing in the world could do that.

Which is why faith is a very dangerous thing.

Ya...it can be. I've recently learned how to control people and life situations with my mind. It scares the shit out of me...It's hard for me to trust myself with that level of power. It's probably a good thing for you that I fear God.

That brought tears to my eyes.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Coreece 190]

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[RonD1120 62]

Well, just to be clear, once again, my life has been stable for the last 31 years. Before that I was a mess. I give Jesus Christ the credit for that. I have no worldly reason to change.

Bottom line, I've been blessed.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Shotgun 1]

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So, never having been there and only knowing stories that exceed your 2000-year limit and only having personal visions/feelings/illusions, when I tell you not to go to prison, you'll take it for what it's worth (little to nothing).

Prison is a very real thing that exists today, with plenty of people who have been there to say what it's like. Not a good analogy to what happens after death.

But yeah, since I already know enough to know I don't want to go there, your advice to not go there would be meaningless to me.

[Shotgun 1]

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However, previously a novice tried to diagnose me as delusional. He has no knowledge of the proper application of the term.

I don't think he was trying to diagnose you. When most people use the word "delusional," they are using the dictionary definition, not the DSM-IV criteria. And I think the dictionary definition worked just fine for what he was trying to say, even if it wasn't a very nice thing to say.

I suppose you think I should just forget my formal education and life experience and just roll over. I am not willing to do that.

What a silly thing to say. No, I don't think that. But just because you learned a psychology term in school, that doesn't take away the fact that there are other definitions for the word (which are more commonly used).

[JackC1 0]

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Ya...it can be. I've recently learned how to control people and life situations with my mind. It scares the shit out of me...It's hard for me to trust myself with that level of power. It's probably a good thing for you that I fear God.

Why? You gonna use your mind ray on me? I hate to shatter your ego, but this ain’t the first time I’ve had a voodoo curse pointed at me.

[deltron80 0]

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Ah, but what would make you change your beliefs?

Nothing in the world could do that.

Which is why faith is a very dangerous thing.

Ya...it can be. I've recently learned how to control people and life situations with my mind. It scares the shit out of me...It's hard for me to trust myself with that level of power. It's probably a good thing for you that I fear God.

That brought tears to my eyes.

So...the only reason you guys don't smite us with your supernatural powers is because you're afraid of the wrath of your vengeful god?

Wow...you guys sound like really great and moral people! So does your god.

Keep up the witnessing. You're just raking in the conversions.

[normiss 891]

I could relate the same story.

I credit myself for the hard work, dedication, self improvement, adjustments in behavior, education, improvement of life skills. Friends and family have also contributed in numerous ways that have been invaluable in my life.
Bottom line, I've succeeded based on dedication and hard work.

Nice that we all find the drive to better ourselves, no matter the fuel for the drive.

[beowulf 1]

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Ah, but what would make you change your beliefs?

Nothing in the world could do that.

Which is why faith is a very dangerous thing.

Ya...it can be. I've recently learned how to control people and life situations with my mind. It scares the shit out of me...It's hard for me to trust myself with that level of power. It's probably a good thing for you that I fear God.

That brought tears to my eyes.

I found this very funny also. But probably for a very different reason.

[rehmwa 2]

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Spirituality = religion

Again a better attempt to get my point across on a less snarky way. Spirituality is just the wonder and awe about the mystery that this universe is. It's naturally occurring in most humans and spirituality is not the proper name for it, it's just the name religious people made up for it. I only use it for lack of a better term. Religion isn't spirituality, it prostitutes spirituality and often devaluates it and dumbs it down.

While the feelings of wonder and awe about the mystery is often approached in a religious fashion, it can be approached in a philosophical materialistic way, but that doesn't make it something else. If anything, in it's purest form it's much more powerful than the quality-free mass product religion usually offers.

The Hubble Deep Field has offered me more spiritual satisfaction than all the tales of the Christian Sheep God in the world ever could.

Nicely put - I'm cynical about "organized religion" in the same way. I don't mind snarky, BTW - it's pretty much expected in belief threads.

the only difference is that I relate that to any organized power structure (applies to more than just churches) not the individual that practices his beliefs in any way.

I don't see any difference for the individual - between those of your beliefs system or those that practice a formal religion. That's all. I don't have an issue with it if it helps all of you, but I am not very tolerant when one group claims a more high road than the other on such a subjective topic. If you feel 'wonder' at the universe, great. That other guy does too, he just expresses it in his own way by assigning a belief to that wonder. Both of you are just enjoying the equivalent of a drug induced buzz created naturally from your experience.

Call it more "pure" if you like, frankly, I agree it's more "pure" for you, but it might be more "pure" for the next guy to practice it in a totally different way - and neither guy has any business belittling the other.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[RonD1120 62]

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I could relate the same story.

I credit myself for the hard work, dedication, self improvement, adjustments in behavior, education, improvement of life skills. Friends and family have also contributed in numerous ways that have been invaluable in my life.
Bottom line, I've succeeded based on dedication and hard work.

Nice that we all find the drive to better ourselves, no matter the fuel for the drive.

Amen to that.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rehmwa 2]

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The Hubble Deep Field has offered me more spiritual satisfaction than all the tales of the Christian Sheep God in the world ever could.

I think the pictures are cool too. But I have no idea why they would provide any sort of religious or spiritual satisfaction. I don't think being esthetically or scientifically moved is a function of some obscure or perceive link to reality.

it's just appreciating balance and nature - no need for labels

Maybe since I equate religious ferver with those claiming spirituality, then my cynicism goes to those crystal holding, yoga chanting, bean eaters...... Just like religious types, assigning the label to themselves just seems a bit smug to me, like they think they need to be in a 'special' (i.e., superior) groups over others.

New skydivers like to claim they are special because of their new club, too. But it's just another sport/activity......

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Shotgun 1]

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Both sides

Don't you ever grow weary of compromise?

Sometimes. Though I'm not sure why you're asking me that.

[RonD1120 62]

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So...the only reason you guys don't smite us with your supernatural powers is because you're afraid of the wrath of your vengeful god?

Wow...you guys sound like really great and moral people! So does your god.

Keep up the witnessing. You're just raking in the conversions.

I am not willing to play head games with you any longer. A thought produced when I was attempting to make a joke of your response, in the same as vein as Coreece. I sense what you are dealing with and I must back off. One-upsmanship, or IGYYSOB, is not always a safe parlor game.

I believe ethically I should only communicate with you 1:1 in private messages. Contact me if you choose to do so. If not that's OK.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Marinus 0]

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between those of your beliefs system or those that practice a formal religion.

There's no belief system involved in what I consider my spirituality. The things to which it applies are all very real. Nature, the universe, humanity. I don't claim anything about it either, except how it influences me. I enjoy it, but its a personal thing.

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a drug induced buzz created naturally from your experience.

A brilliant concept, isn't it? That's about the only meaning I give to it, it's beautiful and very enjoyable.

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Call it more "pure" if you like, frankly, I agree it's more "pure" for you, but it might be more "pure" for the next guy to practice it in a totally different way

True that, spirituality is very personal. Thats why religion pollutes it's pure form.

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and neither guy has any business belittling the other.

That depend. beliefs around spirituality can be very irrational or even stupid. But then again, as long as the other keeps them out of my life I see no need to bother them with my opinion on it.

[rehmwa 2]

So after all that, it turns out we're on pretty much the same page. And your definition of 'spirituality' is thin at best compared to how some use it in a wacky way.


though, my revision in blue here: "That's why large scale organized religion pollutes it's pure form." I have no issue with people gathering together to practice or exercise their beliefs in their way - that's what I call 'religion'. No more issue than I'd have with a group of people going camping together every weekend - or meeting at the DZ to share those experiences on a regular basis (except for crw dogs, that's just objectionable due to their gear and hygiene)


Not as fun as snark. But always revealing.

---faith - strong belief not founded on proof
---religion - the rituals or habits that some use to exercise or affirm their faith
---church - an organized power structure claiming to provide those rituals subject to abuse and corruption just like any other large power structure (like business, politics, large social agenda efforts)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[beowulf 1]

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Ya...it can be. I've recently learned how to control people and life situations with my mind. It scares the shit out of me...It's hard for me to trust myself with that level of power. It's probably a good thing for you that I fear God.

You know there is a million dollar challenge to anyone who can prove anything supernatural. If your claims are real then it should be easy to claim the money.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

[Coreece 190]

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Ah, but what would make you change your beliefs?

Nothing in the world could do that.

Which is why faith is a very dangerous thing.

Ya...it can be. I've recently learned how to control people and life situations with my mind. It scares the shit out of me...It's hard for me to trust myself with that level of power. It's probably a good thing for you that I fear God.

That brought tears to my eyes.

So...the only reason you guys don't smite us with your supernatural powers is because you're afraid of the wrath of your vengeful god?

"In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death..."


If you truly understand the concept of human depravity then you can see how difficult a mindset this is to have, especially for me. I'm a very evil person by nature - more than most - but the following passage helps keep that evil at bay, and I intend to persist until my spirituality is perfected.


Life by the Spirit
"You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other."


It's the greatest challenge...I love it.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[deltron80 0]

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So...the only reason you guys don't smite us with your supernatural powers is because you're afraid of the wrath of your vengeful god?

Wow...you guys sound like really great and moral people! So does your god.

Keep up the witnessing. You're just raking in the conversions.

I am not willing to play head games with you any longer. A thought produced when I was attempting to make a joke of your response, in the same as vein as Coreece. I sense what you are dealing with and I must back off. One-upsmanship, or IGYYSOB, is not always a safe parlor game.

I believe ethically I should only communicate with you 1:1 in private messages. Contact me if you choose to do so. If not that's OK.

Your god killed millions of people in the bible. He condones genocide, rape, and the killing of children.

By any measure I am vastly morally and ethically superior to your archaic pre-modern Genghis Khan-like warlord god. I don't think I have much to gain in seeking guidance from people who worship such a god.

If you're right and your religion is true, I would be more inclined to assume the devil wrote the bible to deceive you into being evil.

If there is a final judgment, I don't want to be counted as someone who worshiped such a horrible force for evil in this world. Good luck with that.

[Coreece 190]

please see post 619...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[winsor 236]

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please see post 619...

Circular logic.

P.S.: The Doobie Brothers blow.

[beowulf 1]

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please see post 619...

meaningless drivel

[deltron80 0]

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If you truly understand the concept of human depravity then you can see how difficult a mindset this is to have, especially for me. I'm a very evil person by nature - more than most - but the following passage helps keep that evil at bay, and I intend to persist until my spirituality is perfected.

I doubt that without your religious belief you would have no moral compass. All people have natural empathy and a desire to help others. It doesn't come naturally to harm others unless you're mentally ill or defending your family from attack, etc.

The bible constantly tells us we are inherently evil and worthless so I can see how you might think that.

On the other hand, if you are some kind of violent sociopath tenuously clinging to morality only via your fear of divine judgement, then that is a little scary.

[beowulf 1]

I seriously doubt that he really is as bad of a person as he claims. If he were then I find it even less likely that fear of a divine judgement would be enough to restrain him.

I think he is talking out his ass with no real way to validate it and thats why I called it meaningless drivel.