AggieDave 6 #1 May 22, 2012 To continue a discussion on Facebook that showed some interesting and polarized opinions on the subject, do you think that seatbelt use in automobiles should be required? Do you also think that their usage should be enforced? The reason I ask is that the annual "Click it or ticket" push started up today. My take is that it should be "click it or die" to really show the side of traffic accidents that I see quite often. Being a collision reconstructionist, I get called out when someone is dead and a vehicle is involved. Over the past few years I've seen quite a few dead bodies due to cars and motorcycles (including auto/ped accidents) and I have to say that seatbelts would have helped significantly in a large majority of those accidents (all but one I've worked were not wearing a seatbelt, in that case nothing would have saved that man except a roadway that had a drag factor above .5 in the rain). In the case of someone who said the enforcement push was all about "revenue;" in Texas at least over 95% of the fines collected go to state programs. Those programs include education material (like those wrecked car displays put up at high schools) and other programs like programs to get free child safety seats to people who can't afford them. What do you think?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #2 May 22, 2012 My feeling on seatbelt laws are the same as my feelings on helmet laws. While I choose to wear a helmet (not required by law in WI) and I wear a seatbelt (required by law most everywhere), I think it should be a choice, not a law. I won't dispute the fact that helmets and seatbelts really do save lives. I just don't like that the government mandates it. Here in Wisconsin, it originally was not a "primary enforcement" law (the cops had to pull you over for something else). When originally passed, the state promised that they wouldn't have the police pulling people over for not wearing their seatbelts. Well, the law changed and became a "primary enforcement" law a couple years ago. I hate that sort of thing. "Nanny state creep"."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 906 #3 May 22, 2012 ^That. Totally. I'm amazed that the seatbelt laws have stood up to constitutional challenge. Cagers are required to wear seatbelts yet we bikers aren't required to wear helmets. Seems like someone is being singled out and penalized for it. You pick the side. I DO always wear a seatbelt. I DO NOT always wear a helmet. (just like safe sex - not a good idea to ride unprotected but god damn does it feel good) My choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
janz 0 #4 May 22, 2012 I want every safety feature available used and actively enforced. Complacency is something we hear a lot about in skydiving with jumpers who had been ragarded at the top until they made a judgment error and came to their (and in some cases someone elses) demise. Complacency has no place in skydiving or the automobile. I feel that choosing to not wear a seatbelt is an example of complacency. Now that you have started on seatbelts how about the problem of cell phone talking and text driving? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 May 22, 2012 Quote Now that you have started on seatbelts how about the problem of cell phone talking and text driving? Cellphone use and driving is going to take a societal shift in what is considered acceptable. In states where the use is banned by law, accident numbers have gone up (as have he severity). What we've found is that people don't stop the activity, they just hold the phone in their lap and try to use it there instead of up and sort of near their line of sight.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #6 May 22, 2012 QuoteThe reason I ask is that the annual "Click it or ticket" push started up today. My take is that it should be "click it or die" Click it or ticket is the appropriate phrase...you know as well as I that it's all about money. Same with the .08 law...many more to come while on the brink of socialized health care.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #7 May 22, 2012 QuoteClick it or ticket is the appropriate phrase...you know as well as I that it's all about money. Contrary to popular belief, that is incorrect. Ask a random police officer about the money. They really don't care about the money, they don't see a dime, they have no quota, no secret *wink* number, nothing. Quotas are illegal and will get a department investigated by the Justice Department.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #8 May 22, 2012 Quotewe bikers aren't required to wear helmets. Michigan recently repealed their helmet law. I'm guessing there wasn't that much money to be made...better to side with freedom in this case - for PR reasons of course.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #9 May 22, 2012 It is assinine to argue against mandatory seat belt laws - too much is at stake and it's not just the it's-my-life-and-I'll-take-it-if-I-like bonehead that is gonna get killed. If it were more like motorcycles where the only head you're likely to split open is going to be your own - cool, leave the helmet at home and go kill yourself. I have noticed that most vehicle deaths seem to occur when the person is not wearing their belt. I do believe that at least here in rural WI, dying in an accident while not wearing a belt is the number one cause of accidental death - if you want to call that an accident. Chatting with the kids the other day (giving daughter #1's BF driving lessons) and they found it amazing that as recently as my youth there were still cars being sold new w/o seatbelts. I think the motto of the non-users s/b "Give me liberty AND give me death."" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #10 May 22, 2012 QuoteClick it or ticket is the appropriate phrase...you know as well as I that it's all about money. I don't know that, and I'd like to know how you "know" that. Were you in on the conspiracy meeting? Even if that is true, I'm good with it simply because of the side benefit of a steadily decreasing traffic fatality rate. It's done for the same reason we have building codes; because if you let every person practice their own personal preferred version of liberty cities would be burning down left and right from people who felt those nuisance laws about how to properly wire a house were infringing on their liberty (beating chest in psuedo-macho patriotic manner)." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 21 #11 May 22, 2012 In a car, if I forget to wear my seatbelt, or choose to not wear one for a short trip, I would not want to be ticketed. I know that I should always wear one, but sometimes I just don't during short trips, or trips where I will be on streets with 25 MPH limits. This may not be logical, but sometimes humans are not. Besides, most cars have airbags now. What could possibly go wrong? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #12 May 22, 2012 Quote It is assinine to argue against mandatory seat belt laws - too much is at stake and it's not just the it's-my-life-and-I'll-take-it-if-I-like bonehead that is gonna get killed. If it were more like motorcycles where the only head you're likely to split open is going to be your own - cool HELL-O, think Mcfly, think...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #13 May 22, 2012 QuoteQuoteClick it or ticket is the appropriate phrase...you know as well as I that it's all about money. Contrary to popular belief, that is incorrect. Ask a random police officer about the money. They really don't care about the money, they don't see a dime, they have no quota, no secret *wink* number, nothing. Quotas are illegal and will get a department investigated by the Justice Department. Dave - there just seem to be too many glaring counterexamples to take this at face value. Maybe those individuals just have a god complex (seen with meter maids as well), but it washes poorly. Back on topic: I believe in seat belt law enforcement not for the driver but for those around him. In many collisions there is still opportunity and necessity to keep driving the car but you can't do that if you've been tossed over to the passenger side. (This started from direct experience when I was in the backseat of a car my grandmother was driving. We were broadsided at an intersection and afterwards the car happily continued forward until it hit the side of a house. A belted driver has a much better chance, provided they don't go into tunnel vision mode, to avoid secondary collisions. This rings mostly true for motorcyclists as well, though it should really be about eye protection. An open shield on a full face or a scull hat doesn't do much good if bb sized gravel is kicked up into your eyes. I do believe that helmet laws have been much more about harassing the bad element in the biker world than it is about saving lives or money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #14 May 22, 2012 QuoteAsk a random police officer about the money. Didn't have to...back when the drinking limit was lowered to .08 I was taking a shit at a wedding for a big county sheriff...I heard the deputies talking while they were pissing (drunk of course) they were like "wtf is this .08 shit...it's all about money, now I have to fuck people over."Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #15 May 22, 2012 QuoteI don't know that, and I'd like to know how you "know" that. Were you in on the conspiracy meeting? Oh the Naïveté...you're so cute. God bless your heart.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #16 May 22, 2012 QuoteIt's done for the same reason we have building codes *in Jakee indolent tone* No it's fucking not.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldwomanc6 60 #17 May 22, 2012 I voted no. I always wear a seatbelt. I've been wearing one since ~1960. Ever since I was too big to fit in Mom's arms (like that would have made a big fat difference). My Dad had them installed in his cars for longer than that (he was an engineer, so I guess he knew certain things that the average Joe didn't). Heck, I feel nekkid, if I don't! and I don't drive a foot w/o all my passengers (even old folks) strapped in. BUT, the last thing I want I Granny State telling me I should strap my butt in. Strapping Minors in is a different issue, and I think I come in on the "Pull That Igit Over Who Lets His/Her Kids Run Around Loose in the Car" and give a ticket to him/her. lisa WSCR 594 FB 1023 CBDB 9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #18 May 22, 2012 Everyone _should_ wear a seatbelt. But it should be up to people to use it or not. (And car companies, who build ever more annoying gadgets to remind you to use them.) "Click it or die" is a fine idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #19 May 22, 2012 +1 but I voted "Yes, should have wear a seatbelt (but no or little enforcement)" I'm just one of those wacky middle-roaders... Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #20 May 22, 2012 QuoteQuoteAsk a random police officer about the money. Didn't have to...back when the drinking limit was lowered to .08 I was taking a shit at a wedding for a big county sheriff...I heard the deputies talking while they were pissing (drunk of course) they were like "wtf is this .08 shit...it's all about money, now I have to fuck people over." DWI and traffic citations are two completely separate animals and they simply can't be compared in the same manner.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #21 May 22, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteAsk a random police officer about the money. Didn't have to...back when the drinking limit was lowered to .08 I was taking a shit at a wedding for a big county sheriff...I heard the deputies talking while they were pissing (drunk of course) they were like "wtf is this .08 shit...it's all about money, now I have to fuck people over." DWI and traffic citations are two completely separate animals and they simply can't be compared in the same manner. Sure they can...it's all about money. K.I.S.S - Capitalism at it's finest - you have no idea.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #22 May 22, 2012 QuoteEveryone _should_ wear a seatbelt. But it should be up to people to use it or not. (And car companies, who build ever more annoying gadgets to remind you to use them.) "Click it or die" is a fine idea. Could you imagine if the Bible mandated seatbelts...lol!Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #23 May 22, 2012 Quoteyou have no idea. You're probably right. Maybe I can find a local citizens police academy to help me learn about the inner workings of law enforcement.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #24 May 22, 2012 I can show you theropes...we run this town son.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #25 May 22, 2012 QuoteI can show you theropes...we run this town son. A side note, I read an article about your home town recently and how there is a big upswing in urban exploration tourism. It is especially popular with photographers, with all the abandoned factories and decay. I'm not going to lie, I would love to have the chance to travel up there and take a bunch of photos.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
