Obama (finally) declares support for same-sex marriage.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

* Reform marriage laws so all are treated consistently by the government.

best to solve this one issue.....

still the problem is now that couples of all types now have special rights that single people don't

so it's still not equal for EVERYONE, we just took one more demographic (gay couples) and put them in the special club (with non-gay couples) and still individuals are left out in the cold

the only real solution is for government to get out of it completely and treat all their citizens as individuals - regardless of how or if they partner up - with all the same rights

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

So what! You skinny Euros look like you have Bulimia but we don't bash you for it.

you guys are funny - arguing over who's crappy specimens are superior...

too skinny (and smoking like morons) and out of shape vs too fat (and this with really crappy and processed food) and out of shape

I don't think either one of you are really touching on the true key point here

it's a worldwide problem of lack of fitness or intelligent diet

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

So what! You skinny Euros look like you have Bulimia but we don't bash you for it.

you guys are funny - arguing over who's crappy specimens are superior...

too skinny (and smoking like morons) and out of shape vs too fat (and this with really crappy and processed food) and out of shape

I don't think either one of you are really touching on the true key point here

it's a worldwide problem of lack of fitness or intelligent diet

Yeah, well their women need to shave their legs and armpits. And their breath would knock an elephant over, too.

And then there's the Yuro-peon Union..couldn't even keep it together for 20 years whereas the U.S. has been going strong for centuries.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

And it's not even on the table to change all legal marriages to civil unions.

it's a shame since that's the real solution

Not really a solution. Mitt Romney has stated that he is even against same-sex civil unions, and I'm sure a lot of people agree with him. North Carolina just voted to ban same-sex civil unions as well.

I don't buy the semantics crap.

I've always seen "marriage" as a legal thing. If others choose to see it as religious, then that's their business, and there's no reason to get the government involved if they don't want to.

I just heard a decent discussion on this. Let me see if I can express it here.

(This I agree with)
It is none of my business if a man marries a man or woman or, a woman marries a woman. I could care less.

For those (of any sexual combination) who chose to commit to another, (monogamous if you will) I feel they should have the same benefits under the law when it comes to medical visitation, medical choices, inheritance law, tax law and so on. This part is easy.

Here is where the debate went a direction I had not considered before.

If same sex marriages are allowed, the line between man and woman is made unclear. There are definite differences and those lines would be blurred if what marriage is was changed

He gave the example of when two guys sued to be hired as waitresses at Hooters
(the judge tossed it because he stated the company can hire who and what gender it wants too)

What about sports? We already have an example of a high school state championship game being forfeited because one team had a girl on the team.

And girls wrestling in boy’s high school wrestling?

What you all think?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Bolas 5]

Quote

Quote

* Reform marriage laws so all are treated consistently by the government.

best to solve this one issue.....

still the problem is now that couples of all types now have special rights that single people don't

so it's still not equal for EVERYONE, we just took one more demographic (gay couples) and put them in the special club (with non-gay couples) and still individuals are left out in the cold

the only real solution is for government to get out of it completely and treat all their citizens as individuals - regardless of how or if they partner up - with all the same rights

So you don't think there are any rights currently afforded to married couples that should survive? I'm fine with this too as long as nothing is missed.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

If same sex marriages are allowed, the line between man and woman is made unclear.

This argument makes pretty much no sense to me.

[Bolas 5]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

And it's not even on the table to change all legal marriages to civil unions.

it's a shame since that's the real solution

Not really a solution. Mitt Romney has stated that he is even against same-sex civil unions, and I'm sure a lot of people agree with him. North Carolina just voted to ban same-sex civil unions as well.

I don't buy the semantics crap.

I've always seen "marriage" as a legal thing. If others choose to see it as religious, then that's their business, and there's no reason to get the government involved if they don't want to.

I just heard a decent discussion on this. Let me see if I can express it here.

(This I agree with)
It is none of my business if a man marries a man or woman or, a woman marries a woman. I could care less.

For those (of any sexual combination) who chose to commit to another, (monogamous if you will) I feel they should have the same benefits under the law when it comes to medical visitation, medical choices, inheritance law, tax law and so on. This part is easy.

Here is where the debate went a direction I had not considered before.

If same sex marriages are allowed, the line between man and woman is made unclear. There are definite differences and those lines would be blurred if what marriage is was changed

He gave the example of when two guys sued to be hired as waitresses at Hooters
(the judge tossed it because he stated the company can hire who and what gender it wants too)

What about sports? We already have an example of a high school state championship game being forfeited because one team had a girl on the team.

And girls wrestling in boy’s high school wrestling?

What you all think?

Non government supported companies and orgs should be allowed to do whatever they please and then the customers decide if they want to support their decisions.

As for government, why should there be a line at all? One standard for all.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[wmw999 2,559]

Quote

What about sports? We already have an example of a high school state championship game being forfeited because one team had a girl on the team.

And girls wrestling in boy’s high school wrestling?

Sports is an interesting issue to me; girls who really excel often can get better competition and results with the boys' teams. But boys who aren't good enough for boys' teams can't go try out for the girls' team as a rule, because of the fact that in adolescence boys begin to develop more muscle mass, giving them an "unfair" advantage. It's inherently unfair, and I'm not at all sure there's a best answer.

If the vast majority of a sports league is OK with coed sports, then I'd say that it's up to the school that isn't to make their decisions. Just as a Jewish school in Houston recently was willing to forfeit their playoff spot because the league wasn't going to reschedule the game off the Jewish sabbath (note: the teams had no problem, it was just the league).

As far as Hooters is concerned, if they have requirements like "look good to straight men in a halter top and can change clothes in the ladies' room" that should be pretty easy to enforce.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Marinus 0]

Quote

you guys are funny - arguing over who's crappy specimens are superior...

I just stated Americans are among the fattest peoples on this planet. That's not arguing but just stating facts.

[GeorgiaDon 379]

Quote

If same sex marriages are allowed, the line between man and woman is made unclear. There are definite differences and those lines would be blurred if what marriage is was changed ...
What you all think?

I think you, and most people, have an uninformed notion of the "distinct lines" between male and female. Look up androgen insensitivity syndrome, and Klinefelter's syndrome, for a start.

Anyway, I think your argument is silly, but it does highlight an interesting correlation: the same people who are so opposed to equal rights for gays and lesbians also tend to want to limit the roles women can play in society too.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

If same sex marriages are allowed, the line between man and woman is made unclear. There are definite differences and those lines would be blurred if what marriage is was changed ...
What you all think?

I think you, and most people, have an uninformed notion of the "distinct lines" between male and female. Look up androgen insensitivity syndrome, and Klinefelter's syndrome, for a start.

Anyway, I think your argument is silly, but it does highlight an interesting correlation: the same people who are so opposed to equal rights for gays and lesbians also tend to want to limit the roles women can play in society too.

Don

Just a fucked up arrogant post

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Marinus 0]

Quote

Just a fucked up arrogant post

Yeah, it's fucking arrogant of nature to produce things like hermaphrodites to mess up you black and white view on human sexuality.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Just a fucked up arrogant post

Yeah, it's fucking arrogant of nature to produce things like hermaphrodites to mess up you black and white view on human sexuality.

Right

I forget

Only liberal overseasers have any clue on anything

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Marinus 0]

Quote

Only liberal overseasers have any clue on anything

It's rather obvious that the human species isn't divided into two completely distinct sexes. Between males and females there's an overlap and even some primitive people had more intelligent ideas about it than some Westerners. Concepts like "the third gender" and "two-spirit" are probably as old as civilization. So it's a bit odd to write off an age old idea as liberal, because you want human sexuality to be simplistic.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Only liberal overseasers have any clue on anything

It's rather obvious that the human species isn't divided into two completely distinct sexes. Between males and females there's an overlap and even some primitive people had more intelligent ideas about it than some Westerners. Concepts like "the third gender" and "two-spirit" are probably as old as civilization. So it's a bit odd to write off an age old idea as liberal, because you want human sexuality to be simplistic.

Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be, and unfortunately reality has a strong liberal bias.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,571]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Just a fucked up arrogant post

Yeah, it's fucking arrogant of nature to produce things like hermaphrodites to mess up you black and white view on human sexuality.

Right

I forget

Only liberal overseasers have any clue on anything

Yeah, being right is so fucking elitist.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Just a fucked up arrogant post

Yeah, it's fucking arrogant of nature to produce things like hermaphrodites to mess up you black and white view on human sexuality.

Right

I forget

Only liberal overseasers have any clue on anything

Yeah, being right is so fucking elitist.

Why thank you

what does that make you then?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,090]

>Only liberal overseasers have any clue on anything

Are those democrats living in Germany?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

you guys are funny - arguing over who's crappy specimens are superior...

too skinny (and smoking like morons) and out of shape vs too fat (and this with really crappy and processed food) and out of shape

I don't think either one of you are really touching on the true key point here

it's a worldwide problem of lack of fitness or intelligent diet

Exactly!!

Which also means that governments have to make laws to ensure a somewhat healthy population. Left to our own, we tend not to make the best decisions.

[devildog 0]

Quote

Quote

you guys are funny - arguing over who's crappy specimens are superior...

too skinny (and smoking like morons) and out of shape vs too fat (and this with really crappy and processed food) and out of shape

I don't think either one of you are really touching on the true key point here

it's a worldwide problem of lack of fitness or intelligent diet

Exactly!!

Which also means that governments have to make laws to ensure a somewhat healthy population. Left to our own, we tend not to make the best decisions.

Speak for yourself. No one tells me what to eat, when to exercise, and I'm in fantastic shape.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Speak for yourself. No one tells me what to eat, when to exercise, and I'm in fantastic shape.

Good for you, the majority of your country men and women cannot do the same.

[devildog 0]

Quote

Quote

Speak for yourself. No one tells me what to eat, when to exercise, and I'm in fantastic shape.

Good for you, the majority of your country men and women cannot do the same.

Sure they can. They choose not to. And to the point, having the govt involved is certainly *not* the answer.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[quade 4]

Quote

No one tells me what to eat . . .

Uh . . . yeah they do.

Good for you if you can resist the sirens call, but let me assure you there are billions of dollars being spent every year with the express purpose of telling you want to eat.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Sure they can. They choose not to.

Indeed they make bad decisions. Continuously.

Quote

And to the point, having the govt involved is certainly *not* the answer.

Well, the government needs somewhat healthy people to succeed as a country. The less healthy you get as a nation, the more rules and regulations you will start seeing.

Don't like that, than as a nation, start making better/healthier decisions.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Speak for yourself. No one tells me what to eat, when to exercise, and I'm in fantastic shape.

Good for you, the majority of your country men and women cannot do the same.

Sure they can. They choose not to. And to the point, having the govt involved is certainly *not* the answer.

At what point would it be? When our teenagers are so unfit that the Marines can't get enough recruits that can survive boot camp?

The divide is real. Our fit people are getting increasingly so. Our fat people are getting increasingly so in real measurable ways. (BMI may not be appropriate for athletes, but it's good enough for the couch potatoes). The number of people in the middle are shrinking.

and when you look at the tens of trillions in unfunded Medicare obligations facing us in the middle half of the century, it would be foolish not to start tackling this problem now.

How old are you, devildog? If you're still in your 20s, you may lack objectivity on this issue.